176 réponses à ce sujet

[Daerog]

I smell a thread on fire *bring fire extingusher*

 

It's not really on fire, more just really off topic.

[TheKomandorShepard]

In the beginning the Caste System seemed to work fine to my understanding, it wasn't until a more sever type of punishment was needed and the idea of stripping people of their caste came about, that Dwarven society started to take a tumble, as their was seemingly no way to undo this punishment, and it affected all people descended from the offender, and thus created more and more people who would then turn to whatever means to get by, hence more crime, hence more caste-less. The Dwarves created their own trap when they created the caste-less punishment, but the Caste system in of itself originally worked just fine. Now that i think about it, having had the casteless probably made those with caste even those of the servant caste feel more dignified and thus more accepting of their caste even if it meant they couldn't rise above it so easily, or had to do something they would have not wanted to do had they known of choice in deciding ones fortune or place in life. This is to say the feat of being removed from your caste probably kept the lower caste in check.

What ever it was before as i said pretty much it worked poorly now and for couple centuries being pretty much self-destructive system

[animedreamer]

The Darkspawn themselves are quite a different sort of threat from Dragons, and we're told they nearly bring Human civilization to ruin in most Blights.

 

Maybe Humans could wipe them out, but it might leave them and their kingdoms weak and exhausted when it was all over.

That's not the point i was making, I'm saying that the "other dangers" of Thedas pale in comparison to the Darkspawn threat. Darkspawn and Blights > Dragon Population, my comparison was that if the Dragons are the Apex predators of the world, and humanity nearly wiped them out. Then the non Darkspawn threats aren't really that big of a issue for the civilized world. They can and could handle the other threats that oppose them. Giants, Dragons, Barbarians, whatever, it's the Darkspawn, a Maker given punishment that poses the biggest threat to Thedas. Not simply because they are evil ravenous monsters, that seem to have a savage intelligence, capable of mass warfare when inspired and lead by a Archdemon, but because they also destroy everything they touch including the very land they stand upon, causing it to basically shrivel up and die. According to the Wardens a blighted land can support no life, nothing will grow there and everything on it becomes twisted and corrupt, either killing all life or transforming it into something evil. 

[Icy Magebane]

Right, and I agreed that it was not connected to the fall of the Dwarven empire, but it is certainly playing a part in Orzammar's current decline. Refer to my above post.

Well, it seems we're in agreement then.  Excellent.  Now if only I could think of a way to link all of this to the topic... hm... yeah, I'm stumped.  xD

[raging_monkey]

It's not really on fire, more just really off topic.

ill just leave here til the embers catch. Call me a cynic but you know

[Dusksworn]

So, Miracles of Andraste?

 

Personally I've always connected her famous singing to the song of the Old Gods, Taint, and Lyrium both red and blue.

 

In short, I think she may have been able to sing magic and understand its song.

[Icy Magebane]

So, Miracles of Andraste?

 

Personally I've always connected her famous singing to the song of the Old Gods, Taint, and Lyrium both red and blue.

 

In short, I think she may have been able to sing magic and understand its song.

Yeah, music is heavily woven into the mythos of Thedas... I hope they elaborate on that at some point.  Inquisition would be a great time to explain some of the lingering mysteries concerning Andraste, the Fade, lyrium, Flemeth, the Taint, the Old Gods, etc., etc...  It would be interesting to learn that Andraste was indeed a mage, but I have no idea what direction the story will take.  It's possible that we'll never know if those miracles were the work of Andraste or the Maker.

[Daerog]

That's not the point i was making, I saying that the "other dangers" of Thedas pale in comparison to the Darkspawn threat. Darkspawn and Blights > Dragon Population, my comparison was that if the Dragons are the Apex predators of the world, and humanity nearly wiped them out. Then the non Darkspawn threats aren't really that big of a issue for the civilized world. They can and could handle the other threats that oppose them. Giants, Dragons, Barbarians, whatever, it's the Darkspawn, a Maker given punishment that posses the biggest threat to Thedas. Not simply because they are evil ravenous monsters, that seem to have a savage intelligence, capable of mass warfare when inspired and lead by a Archdemon, but because they also destroy everything they touch including the very land they stand upon, causing it to basically shrivel up and die. According to the Wardens a blighted land can support no life, nothing will grow there and everything on it becomes twisted and corrupt, either killing all life or transforming it into something evil. 

 

Certainly the blight is the greatest threat to Thedas... which is why I kill the Architect and the Messenger in my canon.

 

However, where/when did it say that the Maker created the darkspawn? All I'm seeing is that their sin, or their bringing sin into the Golden City, corrupted them and created the taint that would make the darkspawn. I can't find where the Chantry says the Maker made the darkspawn or that it was a punishment the Maker designed...

[Daerog]

Yeah, music is heavily woven into the mythos of Thedas... I hope they elaborate on that at some point.  Inquisition would be a great time to explain some of the lingering mysteries concerning Andraste, the Fade, lyrium, Flemeth, the Taint, the Old Gods, etc., etc...  It would be interesting to learn that Andraste was indeed a mage, but I have no idea what direction the story will take.  It's possible that we'll never know if those miracles were the work of Andraste or the Maker.

 

I don't see how it would make any difference if she was a mage or not when just considering the doctrine/dogma/theology of the Chantry. It just impacts the politics, not the faith. She may have been a mage and she may also be divine, or she may be mundane and divine as the Chantry says, or she may be mage and not divine as the Imperial Chantry says, or she may be mundane and not divine (but more like a saint or bodhisattva or whatever).

[animedreamer]

So, Miracles of Andraste?

 

Personally I've always connected her famous singing to the song of the Old Gods, Taint, and Lyrium both red and blue.

 

In short, I think she may have been able to sing magic and understand its song.

 

Interesting..according to Morrigan there are traditions of magic outside of the circle which largely only teaches what the Chantry authorizes as okay to learn/teach. From Avernus we learn that the circles likely don't practice new types of magic but rather likely research new methods in doing the same old thing. According to Avernus only under the Wardens can true magical research to be done, and that's likely because the Wardens don't put restraints on what a mage can do, "victory at any means necessary."  I don't know, Song Magic makes me think of D&D, its a cool concept though, I really hope someday the games will allow us to pick different traditions of magic and it reflect in game, such as your Song Magic idea.

[Dusksworn]

Certainly the blight is the greatest threat to Thedas... which is why I kill the Architect and the Messenger in my canon.

 

However, where/when did it say that the Maker created the darkspawn? All I'm seeing is that their sin, or their bringing sin into the Golden City, corrupted them and created the taint that would make the darkspawn. I can't find where the Chantry says the Maker made the darkspawn or that it was a punishment the Maker designed...

Well, my feeling on the matter is that the Magisters went to the Golden City seeking immortality and whatnot, and they found it. It's just been corrupted a bit.

 

They're still immortal.

[Dusksworn]

Interesting..according to Morrigan there are traditions of magic outside of the circle which largely only teaches what the Chantry authorizes as okay to learn/teach. From Arvenus we learn that the circles likely don't practice new types of magic but rather likely research new methods in doing the same old thing. According to Avernus only under the Wardens can true magical research to be done, and that's likely because the Wardens don't put restraints on what a mage can do, "victory at any means necessary."  I don't know, Song Magic makes me think of D&D, its a cool concept though, I really hope someday the games will allow us to pick different traditions of magic and it reflect in game, such as your Song Magic idea.

Well, all sources of Magic seem to sing in Dragon Age.

 

I was mostly wondering if Andraste had such a unique magical talent that she could understand that song and sing right back.

[Daerog]

Well, my feeling on the matter is that the Magisters went to the Golden City seeking immortality and whatnot, and they found it. It's just been corrupted a bit.

 

They're still immortal.

 

Ya, and I do believe that their souls are damned to the taint, and are reborn through it. Which is why the Architect has no memories, since he was a reincarnated magister, and Corypheus does have memories since he wasn't killed (and his body swap also kinda shows that his soul travels through the blight, since he had better options from the non-Wardens to possess).

[animedreamer]

Certainly the blight is the greatest threat to Thedas... which is why I kill the Architect and the Messenger in my canon.

 

However, where/when did it say that the Maker created the darkspawn? All I'm seeing is that their sin, or their bringing sin into the Golden City, corrupted them and created the taint that would make the darkspawn. I can't find where the Chantry says the Maker made the darkspawn or that it was a punishment the Maker designed...

 

Them entering the Golden City corrupted (what is sin? it's not a physical thing, so i ignore that part) it, from that corruption the magisters were changed and after being sent back to Earth they became the first Darkspawn. The Magisters didn't cast  a spell on themselves making them into Darkspawn, something had to have infected them while they were in the Golden/Black City, which caused them to become tainted and transform into the first darkspawn. hence i say it was a Maker giving punishment. Also throughout the first game they say that it's the Maker's punishment. Why would I ignore that? 

[Icy Magebane]

I don't see how it would make any difference if she was a mage or not when just considering the doctrine/dogma/theology of the Chantry. It just impacts the politics, not the faith. She may have been a mage and she may also be divine, or she may be mundane and divine as the Chantry says, or she may be mage and not divine as the Imperial Chantry says, or she may be mundane and not divine (but more like a saint or bodhisattva or whatever).

I said it would be interesting, not that it would make a difference.  Even though the rest of your post has nothing to do with my statement, I will say that the difference between the Maker performing miracles and Andraste using magic and then claiming it was the Maker should be obvious to you.  Solid evidence that Andraste was a charlatan would have a huge impact on Thedas if word got out...

[KaiserShep]

Andraste's greatest miracle was becoming a pharmaceutical product, and somehow other "prophetesses" aren't burned at the stake in an attempt to produce more.

 

I'm convinced that the Maker is trapped inside Sandal, much in the same way god was trapped in that comatose guy in Dogma.

[animedreamer]

im still wondering why Sandal has no beard, im starting to think the rumors of him being half elf are true.

[Br3admax]

mit Blut und Eisen?

Ja. Lernen mit Krieg.(probably butchered that)

[Br3admax]

im still wondering why Sandal has no beard, im starting to think the rumors of him being half elf are true.

He'd still be a full dwarf. There were plenty of beardless dwarves in Orzammar. Probably half human though.

[KaiserShep]

im still wondering why Sandal has no beard, im starting to think the rumors of him being half elf are true.

 

Enchantment.

[Master Warder Z_]

Ja. Lern mit Krieg.(probably butchered that)

Krieg!

[Daerog]

I said it would be interesting, not that it would make a difference.  Even though the rest of your post has nothing to do with my statement, I will say that the difference between the Maker performing miracles and Andraste using magic and then claiming it was the Maker should be obvious to you.  Solid evidence that Andraste was a charlatan would have a huge impact on Thedas if word got out...

 

I was just making a comment, not really responding to your whole post, guess I was just lazy and didn't bother cutting it down.

 

Being a mage does not make her a charlatan, her being able to do magic does not mean that she was able to do volcanoes and droughts and all that, as not even the greatest magisters could do that without lots of blood magic, and even with blood magic they could not stop what was happening. The Imperial Chantry believes she was a mage, but they still revere her and follow her faith/religion. So, that is why I was saying it wouldn't matter if she was a mage or not when it comes to the faith, just with the politics.

 

They could still do the Circle System. The savior being a mage wouldn't change what she preached about magic and the best way to govern magic.

[Daerog]

Them entering the Golden City corrupted (what is sin? it's not a physical thing, so i ignore that part) it, from that corruption the magisters were changed and after being sent back to Earth they became the first Darkspawn. The Magisters didn't cast  a spell on themselves making them into Darkspawn, something had to have infected them while they were in the Golden/Black City, which caused them to become tainted and transform into the first darkspawn. hence i say it was a Maker giving punishment. Also throughout the first game they say that it's the Maker's punishment. Why would I ignore that? 

 

Oh, ok. So, it was just people saying it, not from any official Chantry document or anything. I was just wondering where "The Maker did it" came from. Seemed to me their carelessness with magic (and if the Maker is real, then their sin and corruption probably played a part as well) in the focal point of the Fade, where magic comes from (unless it is blight magic), is what caused the darkspawn. Not necessarily some external infection.

 

Maybe the Maker did do it and it is official Chantry teaching, I don't know, was just wondering if there was a codex or book I missed.

[X Equestris]

Oh, ok. So, it was just people saying it, not from any official Chantry document or anything. I was just wondering where "The Maker did it" came from. Seemed to me their carelessness with magic (and if the Maker is real, then their sin and corruption probably played a part as well) in the focal point of the Fade, where magic comes from (unless it is blight magic), is what caused the darkspawn. Not necessarily some external infection.
 
Maybe the Maker did do it and it is official Chantry teaching, I don't know, was just wondering if there was a codex or book I missed.

The Chantry does claim that the taint, and thus the darkspawn, were the Maker's punishment for the hubris of mortals.

According to the Chantry, there were three specific points that caused the Maker to withdraw from the world:

1) Mortals began worshipping demons and false gods. At this point, the Maker withdrew to the Golden City.

2) The Magisters breached the Veil and physically entered the Fade. They corrupted the Golden City, and at this point the Maker abandoned the city and went elsewhere.

3) Maferath betrays Andraste to the Imperium, and the Maker abandons world for the last time.

[Master Warder Z_]

I wonder what could be done to improve the thedosian ideal solution... Maybe move industry directly into the alienages and give the elves something positive to do to aid their betters.