30 réponses à ce sujet

[ForgottenWarrior]

Curently playing Destiny and having really bad luck. And i just realized that this is a trend, and very bad one.

ME3 Multiplayer was a nice addition to the game. Ever since i found that i can play there as Turian, i was excited to finally get there. But because of random nature of unlocks, i had to spend like 20 hours just to get Turian class. It was really bad expirience and frustrating. At the moment i got my Turian soldier, that DLC with Turian-infiltrator was released. That was a real pain back there.

Just a few months ago i dropped playing BF4 because of random loot system. All really nice unlocks were locked in those battlepacks. I'm really tired getting shot out of smoke and being unable to shoot in return (all IR scopes are locked in battlepacks). And that just one of many examples.

And here in Destiny, everything depends on loot. You can't get ane more levels above lvl 20 without gear. And it really sucks. Right now i feel that i just wasting my time. I decided to drop playing Destiny. That's not what i have payed 60$ for.

New Mass Effect will have MP and i really excited to play it. But if i wouldn't be able to control my progression and unlocks - screw that. I have a better stuff to spend my time on.

[Ajensis]

New Mass Effect will have MP and i really excited to play it. But if i wouldn't be able to control my progression and unlocks - screw that. I have a better stuff to spend my time on.

 

As I understand it, "DAMP" will feature a system where you can deconstruct items you don't need for materials that can then be used to construct the item you'd rather have. I imagine they'll look to do something similar for the next MEMP. If not exactly the same (since the ME series hasn't had crafting before), then some kind of alternative with the same result.

At least I pray that it won't be the mind-blowing grind that ME3's MP so kindly offered (I spent 500 hours with it and still didn't manage to max out my dear Wraith shotty )

[Mcfly616]

I guess I missed the part where Mass Effect was anything like Destiny.

 

 

 

 

 

As far as loot goes, that's your whole problem. You're depending on random loot, when you could be doing Vanguard Strikes and Patrol Missions to get your level up and buy your own gear. Maybe you prefer a more traditional shooter with linear progression and minimal freedom. I'd prefer Mass Effect get back to its rpg roots.

[SerriceIceDandy]

I agree, the random nature of the Spectre Packs were frustrating. Constantly getting character training for a class you don't like was just annoying; some experience and an opportunity to add some coloured lights? Yay... I'd much rather be able to choose my purchases. 

[Tonymac]

RNG was never very kind to me.

[TruthSerum]

100% disagree with OP's post.

Traditional linear unlocks are boring. The randomness and meta-game strategy of what type of pack to buy with the credits that you have on hand is one of the things that has kept me coming back for literally hundreds of hours in ME mp.

As long as EA/Bioware doesn't get greedy and go full on cheesy free2play model and lower the drop rates to get people to pay more $$$ for packs I say keep the system the way it is because its damn near perfect and everybody wins.

EA/Bioware gets to have a steady revenue stream and we get an insanely deep and addicting game with expansion packs that are 100% free for anybody that already owns the game.

[KrrKs]

Hmm,

the RNG version has its pro's and cons. The other two approaches I know are strictly linear unlocks (booooring) and the "buy what you want" method -which results pretty much in that only certain weapons/kits/whatever are ever used and tried.

 

Maybe a mixture of RNG store with more control would be good. AKA being able to buy a pack that is guaranteed to give a random ultra-rare weapon (just as example).

[TruthSerum]

Hmm,
the RNG version has its pro's and cons. The other two approaches I know are strictly linear unlocks (booooring) and the "buy what you want" method -which results pretty much in that only certain weapons/kits/whatever are ever used and tried.

Maybe a mixture of RNG store with more control would be good. AKA being able to buy a pack that is guaranteed to give a random ultra-rare weapon (just as example).

[TruthSerum]

"guaranteed"

Well then it wouldn't be 'ultra rare'. It would be ultra rare in name only thus defeating the purpose of having certain items classifed as ultra rare.

Unless the system would be randomly pulling from a pool of thousands of different ultra rare items it wouldn't work if an ultra rare drop was guranteed.

[KrrKs]

I just used the current stores nomenclature as example. These classifications would/will likely change.

But having control over what specific pool loot is drawn from (instead of all pools with maybe a higher chance for this or that) is a better way than either of the current systems.

At least imo.

[rapscallioness]

As I understand it, "DAMP" will feature a system where you can deconstruct items you don't need for materials that can then be used to construct the item you'd rather have. I imagine they'll look to do something similar for the next MEMP. If not exactly the same (since the ME series hasn't had crafting before), then some kind of alternative with the same result.

At least I pray that it won't be the mind-blowing grind that ME3's MP so kindly offered (I spent 500 hours with it and still didn't manage to max out my dear Wraith shotty )

Really? Oh, that would be fantastic.

[Massa FX]

Randomizers are cheap to do and less expensive (space wise). Hence they are popular in large games of AAA quality and really cheap 1 - 5 developer teams.

 

Think of all that specific long lines of code that can be copied and pasted into scripts instead of painstakingly long and possibly buggy code that cannot be copied/pasted.

 

yah know?

[CroGamer002]

Mass Effect 1 had random loot. It was horrible.

 

Mass Effect 2 and 3 ditched that, so no reason to think Bioware will return to that Godawful system.

[Azmahoony]

Casinos.

[Ajensis]

Mass Effect 1 had random loot. It was horrible.

 

Mass Effect 2 and 3 ditched that, so no reason to think Bioware will return to that Godawful system.

 

Why does it have to be either/or? I wasn't a fan of getting hundreds of similar items in ME1, but I still prefer this system to the way the sequels lock down exactly which weapon you get when. So how about fewer drops than ME1 with the diversity of ME2/3's arsenal? With weapons sorted in tiers depending on how good they are, so that e.g. a Black Widow won't drop until you've reached a certain level.

Or maybe even have a direct correlation between what enemies actually use and what we loot from them once we've defeated them. So the first enemies will be weak and use low-tier armour and weapons, while the later enemies are much better trained and equipped and thus yield better rewards.

[Farangbaa]

Why does it have to be either/or? I wasn't a fan of getting hundreds of similar items in ME1, but I still prefer this system to the way the sequels lock down exactly which weapon you get when. So how about fewer drops than ME1 with the diversity of ME2/3's arsenal? With weapons sorted in tiers depending on how good they are, so that e.g. a Black Widow won't drop until you've reached a certain level.

Or maybe even have a direct correlation between what enemies actually use and what we loot from them once we've defeated them. So the first enemies will be weak and use low-tier armour and weapons, while the later enemies are much better trained and equipped and thus yield better rewards.

 

Slightly offtopic I suppose, but I always have to laugh when I loot the corpse of a wolf in DA:O and find a Lyrium potion.

[ShaggyWolf]

I'm not a fan of the random item packs either, but I believe in the theory behind their design. Essentially, if you want to unlock something specific, you either play for a few weeks or drop ~30$ on item packs. You basically choose whether you'd rather have time or money. By itself, this sounds pretty terrible, but it comes with the upside of free multiplayer DLC's because the multiplayer mode itself is turning a sufficient profit from the microtransactions. This has the very important advantage of not splitting up the playerbase.

 

In theory, the alternative would be that all weapons/characters are easy to obtain within a few extraction's worth of credits, but we would have to pay for the DLC packs. And that would almost certainly have the end result of reducing the number of people you could potentially play with with each consecutive DLC release (people who don't own the same maps and features that you do wouldn't be able to join your lobbies). And it complicates the dev's work since they would be faced with the challenge of managing and maintaining different versions of the multiplayer mode for people who could potentially own any configuration of the various DLC packs.

 

The best idea I have to potentially improve the situation would be to make characters and weapons far more accessible and refocus microtransactions on cosmetic features. But I'm not certain that cosmetics would be capable of turning the same profit that character and weapon packs do, especially when you consider the additional money that Bioware would need to spend on artists to create the cosmetic assets.

 

So unless a better solution presents itself I'm relatively content with ME3's progression model, though I am hopeful about the supposed upgrades that DA:I will make to that model. If the crafting/salvage system is done well, it could make unlocking things far more reasonable than ME3, without devaluing the packs in the process. I would say if you're interested in the future of Mass Effect's multiplayer progression, keep an eye on DA:I's multiplayer progression and microtransactions.

[Guanxii]

There is only one workable solution in my opinion and that is to have a mixture of BOTH random packs (cheaper option) AND alternatively giving the player the option to pay a premium for each specific item/consumable either with real money or via extended credit grinding.

 

If I can pay/grind for exactly what I want [& hence stop wasting millions of credits/hours on mountains of redundant crap] I would be 100% more likely to spend real money because the time/credit savings over RNG grinding would be drastic even if Ultra Rare upgrades costed 5 million credits each (e.g. $1 per 5m credits = $10 to max each UR is a fair price IMO). People who like the RNG system can keep it. Best of both worlds.

 

Hypothetical ME4 Grinding vs. Micropayment VS. RNG Comparison:

 

5m credits per UR upgrade / $1 = roughly 2 hours grinding on gold (5-6 x 20-25mins) / plat

50m credits per maxed out (level X) UR weapon / $10 = roughly 20 hours grinding on gold/plat

 

RNG PSP UR drop rate ratio 1:5 at $0.20/1m credits each = $1/2h / $10/20h theoretically for comparable drops

[TruthSerum]

There is only one workable solution in my opinion and that is to have a mixture of BOTH random packs (cheaper option) AND alternatively giving the player the option to pay a premium for each specific item/consumable either with real money or via extended credit grinding.

If I can pay/grind for exactly what I want [& hence stop wasting millions of credits/hours on mountains of redundant crap] I would be 100% more likely to spend real money because the time/credit savings over RNG grinding would be drastic even if Ultra Rare upgrades costed 5 million credits each (e.g. $1 per 5m credits = $10 to max each UR is a fair price IMO). People who like the RNG system can keep it. Best of both worlds.

Hypothetical Grinding vs. Micropayment Comparison:

5m credits per UR upgrade / $1 = roughly 2 hours grinding on gold (5 x 20mins) / plat
50m credits per maxed out (level X) UR weapon / $10 = roughly 20 hours grinding on gold/plat

Sounds like you want to be able to just simply buy UR's with real money.......that would suck.

It also sounds like you are asking for linear unlocks. That would suck also because people would be unlocking UR's in a day no matter how high you set the bar. Five million credits is nothing.

You probably think the drop rates are too low as is but really things could be a LOT worse. Bioware/EA have made the unbelievable decision to NOT try to screw over their players with drop rates designed fot nothing but $$$.

You are basically asking to completely alter the game and not in a good way.

[Guanxii]

Sounds like you want to be able to just simply buy UR's with real money.......that would suck.

It also sounds like you are asking for linear unlocks. That would suck also because people would be unlocking UR's in a day no matter how high you set the bar. Five million credits is nothing.

You probably think the drop rates are too low as is but really things could be a LOT worse. Bioware/EA have made the unbelievable decision to NOT try to screw over their players with drop rates designed fot nothing but $$$.

You are basically asking to completely alter the game and not in a good way.

 

I'm asking to keep the current RNG system but also add-in selectable item/upgrade unlocks (either paid or grind-able, as with RNG packs) for those that want an alternative/to do both. As long as it's co-operative if anybody is prepared to spend another $60+ just to max out six or so guns in multiplayer they deserve to be ripped off, imo - a stupid tax. If crappy/lazy players (who otherwise couldn't be able to) want to buy their progress that's fine by me as I'd rather have 4 level X Lancers in my Platinum lobby than 4 level X Avengers even if half of them suck balls/need carrying.

 

Honestly though I can't see the majority of players spending upwards of another $50+ dollars on multiplayer weapons just to try and keep up with (the unlocks of) better players which is never going to happen if the game is balanced correctly.

[Probe Away]

I just think that if you're paying with real money you should have more choice over what you receive.  I can't see the motivation to pay for a PSP if you could just get something you have no interest in.  A system where you could pay for say, a premium shotgun pack (guaranteeing an unlock/level of a rare or ultra rare shotgun) or a premium adept pack would be fine with me.  However, I think the in-game credits should be limited to purchasing random drops as per the current system.  This ensures that the MP component of game stays free and adds a bit of mystery to your unlocks.

 

My biggest gripe is that when they progressively introduced new gear, armour mods, ammo and weapon mods, it drastically diluted the chances of hacks like me unlocking characters/weapons that we were still trying to get - hence why I still do not have a Salarian Infiltrator or a Claymore.  That part of the system needs a bit more thought; e.g. those 'lesser' items could have a significantly lower chance of dropping until you have at least unlocked a certain % of rare/ultra rare characters and weapons.

[ForgottenWarrior]

Mass Effect 1 had random loot. It was horrible.
 
Mass Effect 2 and 3 ditched that, so no reason to think Bioware will return to that Godawful system.

I was talking about Multiplayer.

[SolNebula]

I agree totally with OP.

 

If they are asking me real money for MP packs I want at least the possibility to choose the weapon or class I like. I have a full time job and practically I'm able to play only on weedends and simply don't have the time for mindless grinding so this will put me at disadvantage when i'm playing. When i game I want to play, relax, enjoy and have a good experience, if this means paying for having a good  weapons early on (like BF4 shortcuts) then so be it, just don't take my money for some random garbage i never wanted. It's pay to win? Maybe but again I don't have time to grind these games and want to have fun regardless, after all someone has to pay to keep MP free. However I don't plan to pay a single cent for random packs.

[TruthSerum]

Sounds like some of the people here just need to git gud.

A few gold or platinum full extractions will get you enough credits to buy plenty of SP's, PSP's and the like, guaranteeing plenty of rare and above items all day every day.

Most of these suggestions are simply saying in a subtle, round about way that they want to be able to cheat the game and I say "no".

[Ajensis]

(...) guaranteeing plenty of rare and above items all day every day.

 

I once spent over 2 million credits and got *one* Ultra Rare. True story, I took screenshots of each pack and everything. And saving up that much money took me a lot longer than one day. So your idea of "guarantee" seems hard to grasp for me

 

Also, not everyone can do Platinum, nor even Gold. I certainly can't handle Platinum without my friend and he stopped playing ME3 long ago. Saying that 'a few gold or platinum' games secures enough credits for several packs is just a blatant disregard for those players who don't have the time or interest to deal with the most stressful difficulties. Saying that some people just need to "git gud" sounds pretty arrogant and ignores the casual players who just want to have fun.

 

A game, particularly a "side dish" like ME3 MP, shouldn't require grinding literally trillions of credits to max one's manifest. That's just silly. What's been suggested in this thread are ways to diminish the amount of grinding, making the MP more enjoyable in the future. How that translates into us wanting to "cheat" the game is a mystery to me; I always assumed we all played this game to have fun.