136 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

No. What I am being is having a opinion and defending it. I´ve seen those comments from devs about the game/lore/story/gameplay, BUT, as a individual I make my own judgement from the bits of information available. Time will tell  who is right won´t it? It´s not like Bio doesn´t have a recond of stating something and doing something else so I wouldn´t take everything they say like a word of god. My main argument is that blood magic is not much more diffucult to implement than any other magic branch. Story and gameplay can be finetuned so that using blood magic is possible (I´ve explained it before) and it works well with the rpg spirit. You use something people don´t like? Tought luck, then work with the tools you have. People and factions may leave but why is it that you can´t replace them with someone more acceptable? It might be because if you have already railroaded storyline with a specific faction then it comes more clear why such thing like blood magic is banned. And what faction in the gameworld hates most blood magic, thats right, andrastian chantry.

They don't have unlimited resources though.  It costs both time and money to implement any game feature, so you have to ask yourself is it worth it for the game to incorporate multiple factions that are only accessible based on the player's choice of a certain specialization.  While you might say yes, it seems likely that the developers would say (and have said, apparently) no... that time and money can go towards features that a wider group of players would be able to access, and the storyline doesn't need to undergo major alterations simply for the sake of one specialization.  At the very least, you should accept that the writers are telling the story they want, and if blood magic isn't a part of it, so be it.  At least they had the courtesy to explain themselves.  A lot of companies don't bother to do that, no matter what changes they make to a series.

 

But, I guess you're right that this won't be settled for sure until November...

[KainD]

so you have to ask yourself is it worth it for the game to incorporate multiple factions that are only accessible based on the player's choice of a certain specialization.  

 

It doesn't have to be tied ONLY to a single specialization, there should just be factions that are ALSO ok with this specialization on top of being a choice for the player. 

[Icy Magebane]

It doesn't have to be tied ONLY to a single specialization, there should just be factions that are ALSO ok with this specialization on top of being a choice for the player. 

That's true, but apparently these hypothetical factions are not suited to whatever storyline Bioware is going for.  Whoever these factions are, working with them would most likely place you on the wrong side of the law... wouldn't that alienate the other set of allies, regardless of your spec or why you chose to work with these groups?  Again, the more we branch out, the more variables the devs are going to have to account for and the more extra plot and dialogues they will need to craft... and again, all of that means more time and more money.  Is it really worth it in the end?  I'm not so sure...

[KainD]

That's true, but apparently these hypothetical factions are not suited to whatever storyline Bioware is going for.  Whoever these factions are, working with them would most likely place you on the wrong side of the law... wouldn't that alienate the other set of allies, regardless of your spec or why you chose to work with these groups?  Again, the more we branch out, the more variables the devs are going to have to account for and the more extra plot and dialogues they will need to craft... and again, all of that means more time and more money.  Is it really worth it in the end?  I'm not so sure...

 

I think when it comes to RPG's it's supposed to be more about the story that the player wants to hear, not about what the writer wants to tell. Obviously there is an underline plot, but it's really not that hard to even treat the same plot from multiple perspectives and sides. Just look at NWN2 Motb for example, you could be any alignment from Lawful Good to Chaotic Evil, and it still made sense for you to follow the plot. I think an RPG in which you get to roleplay more or less what you want as opposed to roleplaying Mr/Mrs X that has a set personality with minor variations is more fun. 

[Icy Magebane]

I think when it comes to RPG's it's supposed to be more about the story that the player wants to hear, not about what the writer wants to tell. Obviously there is an underline plot, but it's really not that hard to even treat the same plot from multiple perspectives and sides. Just look at NWN2 Motb for example, you could be any alignment from Lawful Good to Chaotic Evil, and it still made sense for you to follow the plot. I think an RPG in which you get to roleplay more or less what you want as opposed to roleplaying Mr/Mrs X that has a set personality with minor variations is more fun. 

While I agree with you, and would love to have that kind of freedom, it just doesn't seem possible these days with all of the CGI and voice acting... back in the old days we had a lot more freedom because everything came down to a few lines of text on the screen and if they wanted to include more branches in the story it was relatively inexpensive to do so.  These days they have to pay voice actors per word and animate specific cutscenes to match each possible outcome... it's just too much work.  IMO.  I mean, I could be wrong... I just think that it's unreasonable to ask for too much freedom when there are so many costs that need to be considered.

 

Plus, some franchises are better suited to this than others, even in today's industry.  Fallout is a great series for this kind of thing, especially New Vegas... but that game also lacks a voiced protagonist and has zero cutscenes besides the opening movie, so there are two huge costs that they don't need to account for.  Dragon Age, on the other hand, is all about these long, drawn out stories that simply do not lend themselves to too much variation... if there was less emphasis on story and cinematics, then maybe we could see some more freedom in character design and more branching paths, but that just isn't Bioware's style.

[KainD]

While I agree with you, and would love to have that kind of freedom, it just doesn't seem possible these days with all of the CGI and voice acting... back in the old days we had a lot more freedom because everything came down to a few lines of text on the screen and if they wanted to include more branches in the story it was relatively inexpensive to do so.  These days they have to pay voice actors per word and animate specific cutscenes to match each possible outcome... it's just too much work.  IMO.  I mean, I could be wrong... I just think that it's unreasonable to ask for too much freedom when there are so many costs that need to be considered.

 

Ah there we go, that's indeed the root of the problem. I personally was always against voiced RPG games and too much CGI's because they even FURTHER limit roleplay by making the player sound a certain way and behave a certain way in cutscenes, besides being too costly to make reasonable plot choices in the first place. But hey most people nowadays like to watch movies more than roleplaying I guess. 

[Icy Magebane]

Ah there we go, that's indeed the root of the problem. I personally was always against voiced RPG games and too much CGI's because they even FURTHER limit roleplay by making the player sound a certain way and behave a certain way in cutscenes, besides being too costly to make reasonable plot choices in the first place. But hey most people nowadays like to watch movies more than roleplaying I guess. 

It's an unfortunate trend that doesn't seem to be slowing down anytime soon... I mean, that stuff is nice, but IMO it isn't worth the freedom that we have to give up in exchange.  I would gladly trade in the voice acting and all the cutscenes except the intro and ending if it meant more variety in character types, dialogue choices, plot choices, and so on...  but, it seems those types of game are becoming somewhat rare.  At least within the AAA realm.

[Solrest]

My last play through of DA:O I purposely avoided blood magic despite its benefits because I didn't like the idea of slicing myself up to cast spells. It's not completely unreasonable that a Warden would be down with blood magic and not questioned. In large parts due to it being a Blight, but anyone else and it certainly would raise all sorts of questions (And not just constant ones from Anders). Especially from someone who is supposed to be the leader of a massive organization. I didn't really care for blood magic so I won't miss its absence, and from what it seems we'll be gaining access to other branches of magic previously unrepresented.

[KainD]

My last play through of DA:O I purposely avoided blood magic despite its benefits because I didn't like the idea of slicing myself up to cast spells.

 

I don't like that idea either, I think a reasonable blood mage should use slaves blood during peaceful times to cast spells, and use enemies blood during battle, if enemies have blood that is. Basically sacrifice and improved grave robber. 

[Icy Magebane]

I don't like that idea either, I think a reasonable blood mage should use slaves blood during peaceful times to cast spells, and use enemies blood during battle, if enemies have blood that is. Basically sacrifice and improved grave robber. 

Now that you mention it, not being able to use Blood Sacrifice on enemies in DA:O still bothers me to this day.. it should have been an improved version of Life Drain (which also should have healed blood mages, IMO...).  Maybe it was a balancing issue, but I never understood why it had to be a party member...  Grave Robber/One Foot In was a big improvement on that.

[KainD]

Now that you mention it, not being able to use Blood Sacrifice on enemies in DA:O still bothers me to this day.. it should have been an improved version of Life Drain (which also should have healed blood mages, IMO...).  Maybe it was a balancing issue, but I never understood why it had to be a party member...  Grave Robber/One Foot In was a big improvement on that.

 

I think lore wise blood mages should be very efficient at killing great numbers of enemies that have blood. You can basically use say Stone fist to splat the first enemy then use their blood to splat the next one and the next one, so you get something like this: 

Spoiler

[Icy Magebane]

I think lore wise blood mages should be very efficient at killing great numbers of enemies that have blood. You can basically use say Stone fist to splat the first enemy then use their blood to splat the next one and the next one, so you get something like this: 

Spoiler

Yeah, that about sums it up. 

 

Blood mages: the real reason Caridin invented golems. 

[Uccio]

It's an unfortunate trend that doesn't seem to be slowing down anytime soon... I mean, that stuff is nice, but IMO it isn't worth the freedom that we have to give up in exchange. I would gladly trade in the voice acting and all the cutscenes except the intro and ending if it meant more variety in character types, dialogue choices, plot choices, and so on... but, it seems those types of game are becoming somewhat rare. At least within the AAA realm.

True, with Inq I feel bio is missing out massive plot twist and choices by dropping blood magic. It would have made the game so much more interesting when you try to tiptoe between friends and factions while being a blood mage. The grey line between being good and using forbidden magic. Heck, you could even throw in Anders type possession where demon inside Inq figths for dominance. The options, the options. I loved Origins for that. In my first playthrough I sold Connor to the demon for blood magic even I had sacrificed his mother to save him. It took me a time to figure out how to both save Connor and his mom and still get blood magic spec. And I would loved to have the removed circle moment where Wynne spots pc using blood magic and you either convince her otherwise or have fight her and the templars present leaving that faction outside Wardens troops. I am sucker for such demanding and perilous twists in gameplay.

[Dubya75]

No, because the player is going to work for divine and templars as a chantry puppet. All your companions are either chantry zealots or their henchmen. Enjoy.

 

You poor thing, you're so misinformed...and it's making you so unhappy. Better to go and research your claims, you will feel more positive.

[Uccio]

You poor thing, you're so misinformed...and it's making you so unhappy. Better to go and research your claims, you will feel more positive.

 

I will rather do some motorboarding with the missus and feel better for it.

[Muspade]

If people want a "Free reign, I can do whatever I please and the story adapts" scenario, you should try tabletop. It's better for that sort of person.

[raging_monkey]

If fans are lucky they add it as dlc for mp or even have grey area spells

[Pantalaimon]

You poor thing, you're so misinformed...and it's making you so unhappy. Better to go and research your claims, you will feel more positive.

 

For some reason I read that in a fancy Orlesian accent xD

 

Anyways, I don't really have a problem with blood magic being removed from the mage specializations, though I'm certain blood magic (when it comes to lore) can do good as well as bad, right? I remember someone talking about how someone could use blood magic to stop blood flow to an amputated leg, or to help clear a blood clot, maybe even stop a heart attack? I wish we could encounter a blood mage in game who isn't entirely evil and corrupt with its power. (Except Merrill) 

[KainD]

If people want a "Free reign, I can do whatever I please and the story adapts" scenario, you should try tabletop. It's better for that sort of person.

 

Board games usually also have some underlying bigger plot.

[Panda]

You can't be blood mage anymore :<

[Super Drone]

Board games usually also have some underlying bigger plot.

 

I'm assuming Muspade meant Tabletop Role-Playing (i.e. Dungeons and Dragons). Where you roll dice to determine success or failure and the setting is described by a Gamemaster. Because games like this exist in the imaginations of the players, you can have the story tailored the any number of choices.

 

Of course, if your Gamemaster isn't interested in running a game about the players running around being Chaotic Evil jerkasses, then you are in the same boat I guess... I know I'd never let someone play a meglomaniacal Blood Mage trying to rebuild Tevinter in the Dragon Age Pathfinder game I'm currently running.

[Icy Magebane]

You can't be blood mage anymore :<

Late to the party are we?    Nope, not in Inquisition, but I still think it's possible in a future title...

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

For some reason I read that in a fancy Orlesian accent xD

 

Anyways, I don't really have a problem with blood magic being removed from the mage specializations, though I'm certain blood magic (when it comes to lore) can do good as well as bad, right? I remember someone talking about how someone could use blood magic to stop blood flow to an amputated leg, or to help clear a blood clot, maybe even stop a heart attack? I wish we could encounter a blood mage in game who isn't entirely evil and corrupt with its power. (Except Merrill) 

I'm pretty sure you could use it to cure cancer. It's my understanding that it disrupts the growth of the bloodstream (which otherwise grows in a predictable fractal pattern) to feed itself. So, bring in a mage who can trace the bloodstream, and have him look for and utterly destroy anything that doesn't follow the pattern. Early detection and the cure, both taken care of.

 

Of course, if your Gamemaster isn't interested in running a game about the players running around being Chaotic Evil jerkasses, then you are in the same boat I guess... I know I'd never let someone play a meglomaniacal Blood Mage trying to rebuild Tevinter in the Dragon Age Pathfinder game I'm currently running.

Jeez, you're just like the Pathfinder GM I had who wouldn't let me play a necromancer.

[Panda]

Late to the party are we?    Nope, not in Inquisition, but I still think it's possible in a future title...

 

Yes but I wanted still to express my sadness over the issue

I hope we can be blood mage in future title and people will acknowledge it. Blood mage Hawke as Viscount is akward, more so when Fenris tells Anders Hawke is strong mage who never gives in temptation!

[Icy Magebane]

I'm pretty sure you could use it to cure cancer. It's my understanding that it disrupts the growth of the bloodstream (which otherwise grows in a predictable fractal pattern) to feed itself. So, bring in a mage who can trace the bloodstream, and have him look for and utterly destroy anything that doesn't follow the pattern. Early detection and the cure, both taken care of.

I don't think it's wise that the Chantry or secular rulers lift the ban on blood magic based on the speculation that it might have medical benefits...  Do people in Thedas even get cancer?  They aren't like humans from Earth...