Who says that the books taught Blood Magic? They could have just as easily taught Jowan how to contact a demon like they did Connor.
Blood Magic: History, State and Reception of the Lore
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Ieldra
, sept. 22 2014 01:40
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#102
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 04:41
Icy Magebane
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Probably because most blood magic spells would require a ton of lyrium to get working, a lot more than our protagonist could have on hand. I still believe that blood rending/boiling, mind control, and physical Fade walking are blood magic exclusive.
What kind of blood magic spells are we talking about here? Ritualistic magic like what Merrill was doing with the Eluvian? I recall her saying that it was a magic ritual, not something she actually needed blood magic to accomplish... I don't remember seeing any blood magic spell in the games that wasn't related to the manipulation of blood or mind control... so what specifically are the blood magic spells that can be powered by lyrium? If you know of any, I mean...
#103
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 04:42
Br3admax
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She says she cleansed it with Blood Magic that the demon taught her. I don't think that's true, since demons are supposedly foreign to the Taint, however.
#104
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 04:43
KainD
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''Blood magic'' can be done without blood, can use any source really - mana, lyrium, blood.
#105
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 04:45
Br3admax
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''Blood magic'' can be done without blood, can use any source really - mana, lyrium, blood.
Lyrium and mana are the same source, and since Gaider's already said that some spells require blood, I'll take his opinion over yours.
#106
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 04:46
Icy Magebane
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She says she cleansed it with Blood Magic that the demon taught her. I don't think that's true, since demons are supposedly foreign to the Taint, however.
True, but she also said that she could have done the same thing if she had piles of lyrium on hand, so I assumed that the rituals involved required too much mana/enery, and so she used blood magic as the power source instead. The ritual itself wasn't tied to blood magic as far as I can tell...
#107
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 04:48
Br3admax
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True enough, though I still don't think such a ritual is possible without understanding the Taint, and Merrill doesn't.
#108
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 04:49
Icy Magebane
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True enough, though I still don't think such a ritual is possible without understanding the Taint, and Merrill doesn't.
Well, she does fail regardless of whether you give her the elven tool or not... so yeah, the Taint is the part that she didn't get, and the demon probably knew that and was laughing at her the whole time. xD
#109
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 04:54
Hellion Rex
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Lyrium and mana are the same source, and since Gaider's already said that some spells require blood, I'll take his opinion over yours.
Yeah, things like enthrallment and physically walking into the Fade are definitely blood only.
#110
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 04:57
Hellion Rex
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What kind of blood magic spells are we talking about here? Ritualistic magic like what Merrill was doing with the Eluvian? I recall her saying that it was a magic ritual, not something she actually needed blood magic to accomplish... I don't remember seeing any blood magic spell in the games that wasn't related to the manipulation of blood or mind control... so what specifically are the blood magic spells that can be powered by lyrium? If you know of any, I mean...
When I talk about blood magic spells that could be powered by lyrium, I am talking about specifically any normal, run of the mill spell that you are simply amplifying by use of blood in lieu of lyrium.
My point was that upper tier blood magic spells like blood boiling/rending, physical Fade walking, and enthrallment can only be utilized through blood magic, and not lyrium.
#111
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:02
Icy Magebane
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When I talk about blood magic spells that could be powered by lyrium, I am talking about specifically any normal, run of the mill spell that you are simply amplifying by use of blood in lieu of lyrium.
My point was that upper tier blood magic spells like blood boiling/rending, physical Fade walking, and enthrallment can only be utilized through blood magic, and not lyrium.
I agree completely. I've never seen any evidence that Hemorrhage, Blood Wound, Blood Slave, Blood Sacrifice, etc. could be powered by lyrium, and I don't know why a citation beyond the game itself would be needed to support this claim. All spells from the School of Blood that we've seen can only be cast through the use of Blood Magic. Casting Fireball by using blood as the power source doesn't make Fireball a Blood Magic spell...
- Hellion Rex aime ceci
#112
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:11
KainD
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Lyrium and mana are the same source, and since Gaider's already said that some spells require blood, I'll take his opinion over yours.
No, it's Gaider that said that blood magic spells can be powered by lyrium. I think it was Lady Insanity interview.
#113
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:13
EmperorSahlertz
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Lyrium and mana are the same source, and since Gaider's already said that some spells require blood, I'll take his opinion over yours.
That isn't entirely accurate. Lyrium is a formation of crystals that are great natural vessels of magical power. Mana is a "muscle" that uses magic.
With that being said. Lyrium can't be used to power ANY spells. Lyrium EMPOWERS spells.
#114
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:13
Br3admax
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No, it's Gaider that said that blood magic spells can be powered by lyrium. I think it was Lady Insanity interview.
He said some of the spells used by Blood Mages can be.He also said some spells require blood. The quotes in this thread.
#115
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:14
Br3admax
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That isn't entirely accurate. Lyrium is a formation of crystals that are great natural vessels of magical power. Mana is a "muscle" that uses magic.
Mana is magical power. Lyrium collects this magical power. Mana is just energy from the Fade. It isn't a substance, whereas lyrium is. Mana still is what powers the spells when using Lyrium.
#116
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:14
raging_monkey
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think of it like this spells that rend blood or control minds/demons needs blood. Spells from other school can be enhanced from using blood as a subsitute for lyriumNo, it's Gaider that said that blood magic spells can be powered by lyrium. I think it was Lady Insanity interview.
#117
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:14
KainD
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Yeah, things like enthrallment and physically walking into the Fade are definitely blood only.
Connor didn't use blood to enthrall, neither did demons at the tower, neither did ( ah actually the best example ahead ) Idunna, she didn't use blood but said she used blood magic and desire. Magisters used every resource they had to walk into the fade, not just blood.
#118
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:16
KainD
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I agree completely. I've never seen any evidence that Hemorrhage, Blood Wound, Blood Slave, Blood Sacrifice, etc. could be powered by lyrium, and I don't know why a citation beyond the game itself would be needed to support this claim. All spells from the School of Blood that we've seen can only be cast through the use of Blood Magic. Casting Fireball by using blood as the power source doesn't make Fireball a Blood Magic spell...
Just knowing that fireball can be cast using blood, and knowing that blood is the source of power kinda makes a logical chain that other spells cast using blood are also not ''blood magic'', or in the case of manipulating blood are blood magic as much as fireball is fire magic.
#119
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:17
EmperorSahlertz
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Mana is magical power. Lyrium collects this magical power. Mana is just energy from the Fade. It isn't a substance, whereas lyrium is. Mana still is what powers the spells when using Lyrium.
I described mana as a "muscle" because it is the closest thing we got to compare it to. Mana is the "magic muscle". Lyrium is not magical inherently, but it absorbs all the latent magical energy of Thedas.
#120
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:18
Icy Magebane
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Connor didn't use blood to enthrall, neither did demons at the tower, neither did ( ah actually the best example ahead ) Idunna, she didn't use blood but said she used blood magic and desire. Magisters used every resource they had to walk into the fade, not just blood.
Perhaps demons can control minds using magic that is intrinsic to them, but mortals must rely on blood magic to achieve the same effect? That would explain why this spell is specifically linked to blood magic... Connor was an abomination when he was shown with the ability to control minds. He was no longer a normal mage. Since Idunna was a blood mage, I'd say that perhaps a desire demon's influence is part of the mind control spell she used? As in, it was a blood magic spell that drew power from a demon as well...? It wouldn't be the same thing as forcibly controlling someone by manipulating their blood... that wouldn't require a desire demon's aid.
It should also be noted that we've seen several examples of desire demons using mind control, but I don't recall other demons doing this.
#121
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:24
lil yonce
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When I talk about blood magic spells that could be powered by lyrium, I am talking about specifically any normal, run of the mill spell that you are simply amplifying by use of blood in lieu of lyrium.
My point was that upper tier blood magic spells like blood boiling/rending, physical Fade walking, and enthrallment can only be utilized through blood magic, and not lyrium.
Why would Gaider tell us something that we already know? That spells you do with blood magic, like a fireball spell, can be done with lyrium, why tell us that? I definitely think he's making a point that blood magic spells spells, if not hemorrhage then other spells in the blood magic school, can be done with lyrium.
#122
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:26
Hellion Rex
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Why would Gaider tell us something that we already know? That spells you do with blood magic, like a fireball spell, can be done with lyrium, why tell us that? I definitely think he's making a point that blood magic spells spells, if not hemorrhage then other spells in the blood magic school, can be done with lyrium.
No, he was simply reiterating that some magic can ONLY be done with blood magic.
#123
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:29
lil yonce
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No, he was simply reiterating that some magic can ONLY be done with blood magic.
He said blood magic can be powered by lyrium because its a type of power in addition to being a power source. The way you refer to blood magic, its only a power source, and that's not an accurate way to look at it.
#124
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:32
EmperorSahlertz
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He said blood magic can be powered by lyrium because its a type of power in addition to being a power source. The way you refer to blood magic, its only a power source, and that's not an accurate way to look at it.
No spells, not even the regular ones, can be powered by Lyrium. Spells can be EMPOWERED by Lyrium. That is a very important distinciton to make between the two. So yes, Blood Magic can also be EMPOWERED by Lyrium, but you cannot circumvent the blood requirement to Blood Magic spells.
#125
Posté 23 septembre 2014 - 05:33
Icy Magebane
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Just knowing that fireball can be cast using blood, and knowing that blood is the source of power kinda makes a logical chain that other spells cast using blood are also not ''blood magic'', or in the case of manipulating blood are blood magic as much as fireball is fire magic.
Well it seems logical but it was called into question earlier so... apparently the concept isn't universally obvious.
