4575 réponses à ce sujet

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

I spared Loghain and had Alistair marry Anora, I'm 100% sure he was hardened. Are you sure you didn't have any mods installed for that playthrough ? You can't be in two romances at once, so you shouldn't be able to romance Leliana and remain Alistair's mistress, and I tried all the dialogue options after sparing Loghain at the Landsmeet and they all led to Alistair breaking things off with my Warden.

 

 

^I feel like I've heard of people doing that.  I'm not sure if it's a result of using the Leliana exploit to romance Alistair and her at the same time (which you wouldn't be able to reproduce in the Keep) or a result of romancing a hardened Leliana, then suggesting to a hardened Alistair after the Landsmeet (or whenever the choice would normally pop up) that you could be his mistress.

 

Bear in mind, I've never gotten to the Landsmeet with any of my female characters, so I have not attempted this myself.  Nor have I looked it up on the wiki.  This is just how I figure the encounter would have to go in order to work.  If it's not possible to do it that way, then the only way to reproduce it in Origins would be through the Leliana glitch.

 

I'm not sure how I did it originally, but I'm 99% sure I did (and I have no mods that affect how romances work, with exception of the Morrigan Restoration Mod to fix the bugs with Morrigan's romance but that wouldn't affect Leliana and Alistair.  Otherwise, all my mods are cosmetic ones (like my purple hairstyle in my avatar at the time of this posting).  Might have been the so-called "Leliana glitch" but I don't think so cause I've never been able to pull that off even when trying.   So, odds are it's the latter... romancing the hardened Leliana, then romancing Alistair, and so neither of them care cause they are both hardened.

 

Either way, it's possible in the Keep, and I have my fingers crossed it's intended and isn't changed.

[Natureguy85]

I don't disagree. Hardening is a fairly trivial thing to hinge major plot points on, especially since Inquisition is set 10 years after Origins. It was just an irregularity I came across mucking about with the Keep.

 

The problem is that Alistair's state determines how he feels about being King and likely how good of a king he will be, so that could lead to significantly different Fereldans over 10 years time.

[Devil's Avocado]

The problem is that Alistair's state determines how he feels about being King and likely how good of a king he will be, so that could lead to significantly different Fereldans over 10 years time.

For all we know the mage/Templar war mucks all that up so whatever type of rule Alistair may have had depending on his status could be rendered moot.

[Kantr]

There is the indirect harden option anyway in the keep.

 

Basically adding things to Alistair is difficult because of his size in the database (As has been mentioned by Justin on twitch and twitter)

[Natureguy85]

For all we know the mage/Templar war mucks all that up so whatever type of rule Alistair may have had depending on his status could be rendered moot.

 

And for all we know Alistair and Hawke were really abominations all along. Whether or not Alistair was a good king would have a profound influence on how Fereldan handles the mage/templar war. That said, I don't expect it to matter, but it really should.

[Natureguy85]

There is the indirect harden option anyway in the keep.

 

Basically adding things to Alistair is difficult because of his size in the database (As has been mentioned by Justin on twitch and twitter)

 

What is the indirect harden option?

[Devil's Avocado]

What is the indirect harden option?

Goldanna, Alistair's sister. If you said that you confronted her, that's indirect since that quest needs to be finished just to trigger the harden dialogue after the quest.

[Natureguy85]

Goldanna, Alistair's sister. If you said that you confronted her, that's indirect since that quest needs to be finished just to trigger the harden dialogue after the quest.

But that's not an indirect hardening because hardening requires specific dialogue after that. You can go see Goldanna and not harden Alistair.

[Devil's Avocado]

But that's not an indirect hardening because hardening requires specific dialogue after that. You can go see Goldanna and not harden Alistair.

I'm not sure what you mean by indirect then. Unless you mean choice that can only be possible if Alistair is hardened. Making Alistair king w/anora and loghain alive is only possible with a hardened alistair.

[Natureguy85]

I'm not sure what you mean by indirect then. Unless you mean choice that can only be possible if Alistair is hardened. Making Alistair king w/anora and loghain alive is only possible with a hardened alistair.

 

Ok, that makes sense because those options are dependent on Alistair being hardened, so those are indirect indicators of Alistair being hardened. Goldanna is not. But that would only clear it up for that option. What about hardened Alistair as King alone, as in my playthrough?

[Devil's Avocado]

Ok, that makes sense because those options are dependent on Alistair being hardened, so those are indirect indicators of Alistair being hardened. Goldanna is not. But that would only clear it up for that option. What about hardened Alistair as King alone, as in my playthrough?

You can make alistair king alone without him being hardened so that's not an indicator.

 

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

The problem is that Alistair's state determines how he feels about being King and likely how good of a king he will be, so that could lead to significantly different Fereldans over 10 years time.

 

As I said earlier, for the most part you need to just forget anything it said in the "epilogue slides." Unless it's in DA2 or in the Keep  So, how Alistair is as a King is the same, regardless of whether you hardened him or not, as they pretty much decided that was merely a mechanic used in DAO to determine if you could remain his lover/mistress or not.  That's really the only thing that remains that matters when you ignore the epilogue slides.

[Natureguy85]

You can make alistair king alone without him being hardened so that's not an indicator.

 

I never said it was. That's why I think it should be in the keep and should matter in the DA world.

[Natureguy85]

As I said earlier, for the most part you need to just forget anything it said in the "epilogue slides." Unless it's in DA2 or in the Keep  So, how Alistair is as a King is the same, regardless of whether you hardened him or not, as they pretty much decided that was merely a mechanic used in DAO to determine if you could remain his lover/mistress or not.  That's really the only thing that remains that matters when you ignore the epilogue slides.

 

It's not epilogue slides, it's the game itself. He views and talks about it very differently. Hardened Alistair would probably be a strong king, where if not, he'd be what Anora warned you of. This would be similar to how we would expect Orzimmar to be different depending on whether Behlen or Harrowmont is king. What I'd rather not see, though I likely will, is like the Krogan in Mass Effect 2, where they are pretty much in the same place with Wrex or Wreave, even though the two characters treat Shepard differently.

[Devil's Avocado]

I never said it was. That's why I think it should be in the keep and should matter in the DA world.

 

Hardening was addressed during the twitch keep Q&A stream that they have no plans to add them due to the complexity of them. Alistair's web of connections is a nightmare in itself.

 

Another thread on here also talked about it.

 

http://forum.bioware...rdens-alistair/

 

If they do it will be very far down the line after DA:I is released.

[Azuretide]

Ok so I got this to work on my Ipad.  It still won't save anything on my computer.  A problem with the Ipad is that i can't get to the confirm these changes button on some of the options.  Does anyone know how to do this?

[Natureguy85]

That sounds like a design issue, but I'm talking about story and world. If Alistair's tiles are that involved, he must have a good sized role going forward, which is cool.

[Devil's Avocado]

That sounds like a design issue, but I'm talking about story and world. If Alistair's tiles are that involved, he must have a good sized role going forward, which is cool.

That's partly due to closed beta keepers requesting said tiles so it's hard to say whether some of those are really that significant.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

It's not epilogue slides, it's the game itself. He views and talks about it very differently. Hardened Alistair would probably be a strong king, where if not, he'd be what Anora warned you of. This would be similar to how we would expect Orzimmar to be different depending on whether Behlen or Harrowmont is king. What I'd rather not see, though I likely will, is like the Krogan in Mass Effect 2, where they are pretty much in the same place with Wrex or Wreave, even though the two characters treat Shepard differently.

 

Oh, no if you think Wrex and Wreav are not very different, you were not paying attention.  It's not just how they treated Shepard.  Trust me, I would NEVER cure the genophage with Wreav in charge unless I wanted to screw over the galaxy.   Wrex looks to a future where Krogan are accepted and trusted by the rest of the species of the galaxy, Wreav is your typical raaaawar Krogan that will bring about another Krogan Rebellion.  I mean no offense, but I think this is one of those cases where people are so hating on the ending, that they just blanket the entire game with "Our decisions meant nothing!!! Damn you Biofail!" when that's simply not true.

 

As for cases like Harrowmont and Bhelen, they've already said in the Keep itself the differences between them as rulers, so I see no reason that wouldn't be reflected in DAI, same as it was with Wrex/Wreav (and again, it was very much reflected, even if you were not paying attention).  A non-hardened Alistair I think wouldn't nearly be as bad as Anora said, she was trying to scare you into siding with her. 

[Jedi Master of Orion]

The problem is that Alistair's state determines how he feels about being King and likely how good of a king he will be, so that could lead to significantly different Fereldans over 10 years time.

 

Alistair, especially, isn't really that different if hardened. And an unhardened Alistair could just as easily be forced eventually to adopt a similar attitude towards governing as a hardened one over the course of ten years.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

That's partly due to closed beta keepers requesting said tiles so it's hard to say whether some of those are really that significant.

 

Well, true and not true.. .I mean he's potentially the KING of Ferelden, that is a pretty big role.  Whether he killed the archdemon, etc all matters.  If he's dead then Anora is the Queen, and she'll be just as important, but she doesn't need all the tiles he does, cause she's either Queen and important, or she's not Queen and probably dead if not stuck in a prison somewhere.

[Antergaton]

The Broken Circle bug still active I see? Oh well. Story wise it's the most important to me at the moment. All my other choices are valid.

[Kulyok]

Hi! Using Opera 12.17, and I was wondering if Feedback form bug was reported - I can't send anything, because I get stuck at "choose which kind of report you want to make" - can't access menu "bug/suggestion/etc" - the line just keeps blinking.

(and, yeah, titles do show incorrectly. )

 

 

And a logical error: I always kill Wynne at the Broken Circle(either right after meeting her or after agreeing to Cullen's suggestion), and I always side the mages afterwards and save Irwing. But the Keep wouldn't allow me to make this choice, and that's weird.

[Natureguy85]

Oh, no if you think Wrex and Wreav are not very different, you were not paying attention.  It's not just how they treated Shepard.  Trust me, I would NEVER cure the genophage with Wreav in charge unless I wanted to screw over the galaxy.   Wrex looks to a future where Krogan are accepted and trusted by the rest of the species of the galaxy, Wreav is your typical raaaawar Krogan that will bring about another Krogan Rebellion.  I mean no offense, but I think this is one of those cases where people are so hating on the ending, that they just blanket the entire game with "Our decisions meant nothing!!! Damn you Biofail!" when that's simply not true.

 

As for cases like Harrowmont and Bhelen, they've already said in the Keep itself the differences between them as rulers, so I see no reason that wouldn't be reflected in DAI, same as it was with Wrex/Wreav (and again, it was very much reflected, even if you were not paying attention).  A non-hardened Alistair I think wouldn't nearly be as bad as Anora said, she was trying to scare you into siding with her. 

 

1) I said in Mass Effect 2, so quoting Mass Effect 3 at me is a different issue.

2) That's all epilogue and probably won't matter in any future Mass Effect game, especially with how the ending was slapped together..

3) The difference between Wrex and Wreave was discussed, but in what way was it actually reflected, except maybe a different epilogue slide?

[Natureguy85]

Alistair, especially, isn't really that different if hardened. And an unhardened Alistair could just as easily be forced eventually to adopt a similar attitude towards governing as a hardened one over the course of ten years.

 

Never, ever, ever do Wild Mass Guessing. (http://tvtropes.org/...ildMassGuessing)

We are never supposed to say "Well I guess XYZ could have happened. That's lazy writing.

That said, you're close in that 10 years could be enough time for him to mature into a better King, even if he isn't hardened, or be hardened by some other event. However, that must be explained to us, even if it's just a character mentioning it in conversation. It could be anything; a pocket of remaining darkspawn attack a village, a food shortage, ect, but it has to be there.