223 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

And yet, Aveline denounces the idea of Captain Jevan being killed for his crimes.  Seems odd to me that the mentally-deranged dude deserves to die, but the guy who knows that he is embezzling funds and murdering his own guardsman to do it "should see justice"...  Especially when the fact that he's not in prison 6 years later tells me he didn't really "see justice"...

 

Don't get me wrong.  I kill Keldar, too.  But Aveline's opinion on the matter is a tad hypocritical to me...

To be fair, he COULD have been in jail, but was let out. Kirkwall was very corrupt, not surprising that would happen in that hellhole.

[AshenEndymion]

The issue is that if you don't kill Kelder you might as well have been the murderer who killed all of his future victims.

I like this argument... But if one doesn't believe Orsino is responsible for Leandra's death(and everyone else Quentin killed), then this line of reasoning doesn't really work...
 

To be fair, he COULD have been in jail, but was let out. Kirkwall was very corrupt, not surprising that would happen in that hellhole.

 
True.  But the argument Aveline has in favor of killing Keldar is exactly that:  The situation is full of corruption, there likely won't be any justice if you bring him back, so he should die.  But with Jeven, if you suggest killing him, she essentially argues that the city should deal with him, because even though he's corrupt and there likely won't be any justice, she won't be like him...
 
The two rationalizations are at odds with each other, in my mind.

[aTigerslunch]

I let that little bugger of a Keldar not get killed once, turned him over to see justice, and found I didn't like that. 

 

The others are all, kill the Keldar, Kill the Keldar, ha ha ha ha ha.

 

 

Would prefer Jevan the death without the blah blah, cause she was hypocritical btw both of those two.

[pallascedar]

I like this argument... But if one doesn't believe Orsino is responsible for Leandra's death(and everyone else Quentin killed), then this line of reasoning doesn't really work...

 

The situations are a little different, but I definitely do blame Orsino for a large part of the **** Quentin did.

[Isaidlunch]

Did being "renegade" in DA2 really penalize you? It actually seemed to make the game easier, especially when it came to approval meters e.g. rolling in Rivalry points with Fenris after trying to negotiate with his ambushers and laughing in his face when taking Orana as a slave. The only occasion I can think of that penalized you was the Anders romance being broken off if you made a deal with Torpor.

[BraveVesperia]

I think DA has avoided that. Even ME had a good split of classic 'good' characters, ruthless and amoral ones (it was the karma meter that screwed you there).

 

Seems to me that Cassandra, Vivienne and Iron Bull at the very least will approve of more 'ruthless' choices. I really wouldn't want a repeat of Morrigan, where she advocates Stupid Evil choices simply so there's a 'mwah ha ha kick all the puppies' companion available. I mean, she disagreed with just about every option to help people, even when it was in our best interests to do so (like agreeing to help the Redcliffe blacksmith.

[Wolfen09]

nobody likes giving war funds to an a*shole

[spinachdiaper]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Q0Hmc7eeXjw

[Vilegrim]

I never felt penalized for playing "renegade" and I made sure I had a couple playthroughs that were as bad as the game allowed me to be.

 

 

so goody one shoes not goody two shoes

 

 

In the Dragon Age series alone;

 

Alistair: yes, goody two shoes. Only time he gets really angry is about Loghain and Isolde.

Morrigan: hardly a paragon of virtue, and can get downright petty and evil sometimes.

Leliana: Cold blooded murderer. Her Chantry stance is also very much grey. Not a goodie two shoes.

Sten: Murdered an entire family, and has a generally very pragmatic and utilitarian approach. Neutral at best.

Shale: only really wants to squish things. Neutral.

Zevran: another murderer, and a very unapologic one at that. Again, neutral at best.

Wynne: Kinda like Alistair, kinda goody two shoes.

Oghren: brags about killing people, doesn,t care about much other than getting drunk and killing Darkspawn.

Loghain: straight up villain for most of the game.

Dog: he's a dog.

 

So that's two companions that are goody two shoes. All the rest are neutral, and some (Morrigan, Zevran, Loghain, Sten) could be considered outright evil by some. So that's not an argument.

 

For DAII:

 

Carver: Bit of a jerk, not many people like him. Willing to join the Templars, which does not indicate a goody two shoes personality.

Bethany: definitely sweet and nice.

Aveline: protect and serve, and all that. Definitely the most moral character.

Varric: Hawke's BFF, but he's no angel, he's a criminal who has killed more than his fair share of people. He's more white than dark, but definitely lots of grey.

Isabela: Self-centered pirate. She's not evil, but she's not a good person and unless Hawke convinces her she's perfectly OK with letting the Qunari burn Kirkwall if it means getting away with her skin intact.

Fenris: Vengeful and doesn't hesitate to kill people if he feels he has to. He has a sympathetic backstory but he's definitely in the grey area at best.

Merril: Yes, yes, sweet antics and all, she's still a blood mage who makes deals with demons to get what she wants.

Anders: Arguably one of the game's main villains, who kills innocent people to get what he wants.

Sebastian: Bit of a goody two shoes, but he can easily set his morals aside if it fits him (like if you let Anders live).

 

So that's two companion that's really moral, two lighter shades of grey, and all the rest are darker shades who could be seen as evil depending on point of view.

 

So with all that taken into account, I'm really not afraid. Most of the serie's companions are in the grey area, often quite dark. I don't see why Inquisition should be different.

 

 

you start 'grey' way sooner than I do (for instance to me Anders is grey, Fenris was white, Leliana White again, Morrigan grey, Loghain, grey...yea,.

[Chibi Elemental]

Dragon age hurrah for no moral systems \o/ just be what you want to be and deal with the consequences. That iss what I do!~

[Lulupab]

"Renegade" does not mean evil. It means save the world but damn the consequences. I would very much like more companions with that mentality.

[AshenEndymion]

I really wouldn't want a repeat of Morrigan, where she advocates Stupid Evil choices simply so there's a 'mwah ha ha kick all the puppies' companion available. I mean, she disagreed with just about every option to help people, even when it was in our best interests to do so (like agreeing to help the Redcliffe blacksmith.

 
Morrigan disagreed with helping the blacksmith because there was no real reason to offer help...  The guy won't make swords/armor for the town unless you agree to help him, and thus isn't really worth assisting, so why bother?  Especially since you should just leave them all to die, and then walk into the castle tomorrow without issue, just like Morrigan suggested in the first place.
 
I get that people don't like that Morrigan disagreed with every single altruistic thing the Warden can do, but none of it was overly petty.  There was a rational behind it, and that rational was usually along the lines of "you aren't actually required to do this stupid **** to get what you want"...

[PhroXenGold]

 
Morrigan disagreed with helping the blacksmith because there was no real reason to offer help...  The guy won't make swords/armor for the town unless you agree to help him, and thus isn't really worth assisting, so why bother?  Especially since you should just leave them all to die, and then walk into the castle tomorrow without issue, just like Morrigan suggested in the first place.
 
I get that people don't like that Morrigan disagreed with every single altruistic thing the Warden can do, but none of it was overly petty.  There was a rational behind it, and that rational was usually along the lines of "you aren't actually required to do this stupid **** to get what you want"...

 

To be fair, once you've agreed to help the town - something I agree is not really a rational decision - there's no reason not to say that you'll help the blacksmith.

[AshenEndymion]

To be fair, once you've agreed to help the town - something I agree is not really a rational decision - there's no reason not to say that you'll help the blacksmith.

 

True, but it seems off for a person to keep Morrigan in his/her party after agreeing to help the town, and then getting bothered when she continues to disapprove of their further actions in that town.

 

I mean, in situations like that, it looks like you're deliberately trying to make Morrigan hate you, and then complaining when she does....

[PhroXenGold]

True, but it seems off for a person to keep Morrigan in his/her party after agreeing to help the town, and then getting bothered when she continues to disapprove of their further actions in that town.

 

I mean, in situations like that, it looks like you're deliberately trying to make Morrigan hate you, and then complaining when she does....

 

The problem is, once I've made the decision to fight, and kept her there, she's involved in this. It's not logical for her to actively object to increasing our chances of victory when she herself is at risk if the undead win. Particularly, particularly, given that simply saying that you'll help the blacksmith does not in any way shape or form inconvenience anyone.

[TheEternalStudent]

I really want  the Pragmatic Argument option.
Morrigan, we're rescuing the mages because they are the perfect group to fight a horde from a distance. If you can tell me where to find another bunch of mages I'll totally leave them to their fate.
We're saving Redcliffe because I'm trying to ask Arl Eamon for help, losing Redcliffe is not likely to endear him to me.
Sten, we're searching for the ashes of a deadwoman because nobody will got off their ass until I do.

[Vilegrim]

"Renegade" does not mean evil. It means save the world but damn the consequences. I would very much like more companions with that mentality.

True. Which is why I want flat out capital e Evil back in bioware games. 2 choices 1) blind obedience 2) the demons eat you. Choose.

[Xilizhra]

"Renegade" does not mean evil. It means save the world but damn the consequences. I would very much like more companions with that mentality.

Why's that?

 

Also, I killed Kelder largely because he outright begged me to. I'd have tried to get him help somewhere away from his father, but he refused that.

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

And yet, Aveline denounces the idea of Captain Jevan being killed for his crimes.  Seems odd to me that the mentally-deranged dude deserves to die, but the guy who knows that he is embezzling funds and murdering his own guardsman to do it "should see justice"...  Especially when the fact that he's not in prison 6 years later tells me he didn't really "see justice"...
 
Don't get me wrong.  I kill Keldar, too.  But Aveline's opinion on the matter is a tad hypocritical to me...

Aveline was just a corrupt hypocrite, she was happy to let Hawke, the other companions & her guardsmen get away with crimes but talked like she was ending that kind of crime & corruption, she was little better then Jevan

[Vilegrim]

nobody likes giving war funds to an a*shole

A fair portion of successful generals from history disprove that statement

[AlexiaRevan]

Aveline was just a corrupt hypocrite, she was happy to let Hawke, the other companions & her guardsmen get away with crimes but talked like she was ending that kind of crime & corruption, she was little better then Jevan

what crimes?

[XxPrincess(x)ThreatxX]

what crimes?

Murder, theft, blood magic, she also ignores her guardsman who raped an elf & only takes action against the victims brothers when they got tired of their reports of it getting totally ignored

[Lulupab]

Why's that?
 
Also, I killed Kelder largely because he outright begged me to. I'd have tried to get him help somewhere away from his father, but he refused that.

Well that's what renegade is in ME series. You don't care if a race goes extinct as long as the galaxy is saved.

[Fearsome1]

One of my top three favorite films is "The Dirty Dozen" and that is largely why I'm even here. I originally bought Mass Effect 2 for my son, but he never gave it the time of day. Eventually I opened it up, popped it in and was immediately hooked - oh, look - "it's The Dirty Dozen in SPACE!" (Not really, but I'm sure you can see my point?)

 

Later I checked out DA:O and became even more hooked by this franchise. The bottom line, before I segue further, is that whether it's my Warden or Hawke and likely Inquisitor - - - my style trends towards being like Major Reisman [Lee Marvin] in - you guessed it - The Dirty Dozen.

 

Doesn't matter if my character is male or female. Doesn't matter what race I happen to be. Doesn't matter what station or rank in life my character happens to occupy at the start. Although I observe cultural protocols that are expected of me, I am distrustful of authority and tend to be a self-motivated go-getter and/or problem-solver. I have a moral center, but will not hesitate to do what is necessary to get the job done. I expect those who follow me to tow the line, and while I am open to suggestions (yes, feel free to express yourself); when it comes right down to it - - - don't cross me or you are going to take a dirt nap. At the end of the day however, my team is "my team" and whether they happen to be blood mages, assassins, goody-two-shoes or just a bit of everything, I will fight right alongside them against the world that wants to cut their throats or toss them away because ......... WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!!

 

When the dust clears, and the music cues, you can say thank you (but we don't expect it or even need it). Just do us a favor, and move the hell on out of the way. It's about to be party time, Italian-style!

[Xilizhra]

Murder, theft, blood magic, she also ignores her guardsman who raped an elf & only takes action against the victims brothers when they got tired of their reports of it getting totally ignored

All the killing is self-defense, pretty much, and I don't really recall many instances of stealing legitimate property. As for blood magic, that's out of Aveline's jurisdiction.