22 réponses à ce sujet

[Darius M.]

On my ever-continuing quest to not be one of the typical idiot PUGs that I hear so much about on these forums, I got curious about something: BSN, what do you all see as the Vanguard's role with regard to the team? I realize there's a lot of different vanguard characters, and don't want to generalize too badly, but let's say for the sake of argument we specify it to ones like the basic humans? Or ones with a similar skillset/"toughguy" build. 

 

I've always seen vanguards as the squad's CQB specialists, and as such, I always thought their job in a fireteam was to be the close-quarter enforcers (last line of defense) should tougher melee-oriented enemies like brutes, dragoons, pyros, hunters, etc. close in on the more fragile ranged characters like infiltrators, adepts, and engineers. They thin the herd from afar, Vanguard deals with threats that get past them. I believed their role was to tie enemies up in close quarters, drawing their attention and giving the others breathing room or a couple seconds to relocate. However, I'm starting to think that I'm doing this wrong because I've noticed several trends:

 

1. That there is not a lot of scoring that happens in this manner, leading to the assumption that you are not contributing. 

 

2. I rarely see or hear about Vanguards that behave in this manner

 

3. Seemingly by virtue of their reputation alone, they seem to be the most loathed class to fight alongside. I've been kicked from a lot of matches as soon as the lobby sees "vanguard" in the title.

 

4. Seems like teammates don't want vanguards around during disarm objectives (If not protecting the squad, where do I go?)

 

While I understand (and have seen on several occasions) the vanguards who ,charge off doing their own thing are annoying and are often the cliche, I'm wondering if you all think that I'm playing the Vanguard wrong, or more importantly, What do you see as the Vanguard's role? How do you play with him/her? 

[Elindarion]

Well I only know what I do with them (they are pretty much my favorite so far), and I'm new to this game, though not to martial combat, battle tactics, and war strategy.  I'm no expert, just sharing how I think and what I do.

 

I don't care about medals and kills and ignore score whores.  I usually finish last in the game 'ranking,' but I know I'm contributing, so if a snot-nosed kid wants to crap out of his/her mouth or spread it with his fingers, whatever.  Got no time for that.  I care about accomplishing the Mission.  I care that my team survives and thrives.  I care that no one is left behind.  And I will gladly die to ensure these things happen, taking as many enemies as possible with me, provided I have judged it is necessary to ensure the Mission's success and the survival of my teammates.  Bit of a Japanese thing.

 

I use my vanguards to draw attention by charging in so my long-range teammates can pick them off while they go after me.  I use them to protect the flanks and rear of my team mates.  I use them against the bosses, grabbing their attention and and tangling them up to give my team mates time to deal with the lesser but annoying and potentially dangerous hordes of mooks, after which they usually save my flagging arse.  Or I lead them away from my team mates who are dealing with a mook cluster f**k or mission objective.  Some of these functions are better accomplished by a sturdy Kroguard.  A Novaguard is arguably better at clearing clustered mooks quickly with his AoE attack, but it can get a little prickly dancing with the big boys unless you've got a workable cooldown rate on Charge, good damage output on the weapon, and your timing down pat (pray to the lag gods!).  The Asari has Stasis Bubble, which can be a very useful team tool, but yields little personal glory (so be it).  The Batarian is almost as sturdy as the Krogan and has a useful and effective long-range biotic attack and potentially a strong melee capability as well, to compliment the standard vanguard powers.

 

Of course, all of this adjusts with game difficulty.  Same principles, just a lot more care, and closer integration with the team at all times.

The buggy vanguard lag plague can make all of this challenging, unpredictable, and sometimes, quite frustrating.  But I still love them.  Vvvoooooooop BOOM!.  Hello, mother f*ck*r ....

Don't know if this is the kind of info you're looking for but ... *shrugs*  My two sense.

[robarcool]

Vanguards: Kill stuff before anything or anyone else

[FullSpe3D]

You're over complicating this. The only role each team member has is to kill stuff fast, revive where possible, and do objectives.

 

If you're getting kicked for playing a Vanguard then it's probably because you're off host. Various lag related issues make Biotic Charge unreliable at best, and the Slayer is the absolute worst because Phase Disruptor is awful off host. I don't kick off host Vanguards but I can be pretty certain they'll be dead most of the game.

[Alfonsedode]

Im pretty much agreeing with all U said, OP. But if U R not topscoring or scoring well with a novaguard on host, then your looking too closely at your role instead of killing stuff.

Vanguard are amonf the best detonator in game, so keep a look at your fellow primer to use that too

[Excella Gionne]

I heard they're stronger off-host.

[Fortack]

You're over complicating this.

 
Indeed. Nothing special about Vanguards. They equip the Claymoar, shoot everything in the head, and laugh maniacally (like everyone else). At least, that's what my Vanguards are doing.

[PHOEN1XK1NG]

Team member? Nope! Vanguard is a one man wrecking crew...

[Catastrophy]

It's not about role - it's about playstyle and making the most of biotic charge.

[Chealec]

Vanguard ... the clue is in the name.

[Deerber]

They should do what everyone else should be doing: kill things. Nothing less, nothing more.

And they're bloody good at that, when played properly.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

 

3. Seemingly by virtue of their reputation alone, they seem to be the most loathed class to fight alongside. I've been kicked from a lot of matches as soon as the lobby sees "vanguard" in the title.

 

 

I remember when that used to happen. It was mostly a Bronze phenomenon, though, or occasionally Silver. I think it has to do with the fact that on Bronze/Silver, Vanguards can be nigh unto indestructible, and can basically just charge the enemies and wipe out the spawn before anyone else can do anything. At least, the people who used to do it when I was around did it for that reason.

[steamcamel]

Judging from most of the lobbies I join, the role of the human vanguards seems to be showing up without equipment on gold, carry a sniper rifle and and an assault rifle into battle and increase the cooldown to beyond infinity. Then stand in a corner, clumsily shoot at stuff from afar, and then die a lot.

 

They must know something I don't.

[SterlingPhoenix]

Lets start with what the word "Vanguard" actually means.

 

In olde-time battles, the vanguard was a small force that lead the charge. They were the first to encounter the enemy. Sometimes they'd act as a diversion for the main force. They would generally be pretty tough but somewhat dispensable since they'd get the crap beaten out of them before the rest of the army arrived.

 

So I see that as the role a Vanguard plays in ME3, too. Charge at the enemy as soon as you see them, and have them focus on you while ignoring your squishy friends (or, hell, your tanky friends with the big guns).

 

Now you have some advantages over your namesakes. Namely, you're a lot more mobile and your barriers recharge when you execute some your space-magic. Depending on what kind of Vanguard you are, you might also have even more space-magic, or have space-grenades, or space-whips, or be tougher than a bag of bricks, or be a drell. But in a team game you are first and foremost the person who gets to the enemy first, gets in their faces and distracts them from everyone else.

 

Of course, battles aren't always ideal for your abilities. Most vanguards lose a lot of effectiveness during hack objectives, or escorts - anything that has you stay relatively stationary.

 

During devices or deliveries a vanguard can still be very useful doing their usual diversionary roll (you want to keep the enemy away from the person with the pizza, for example). That said, if you're the toughest or fastest person on the team, go ahead and grab the pizza. You can always biotic charge to get your barriers back and then pick it back up. Similarly, since you are super-mobile, if you can get to a device, clear the enemies around it and enable/disable/whatever it before more jerks show up, go for it.

 

As for being kicked out of lobbies just for being a vanguard, there are a number of reasons I've seen that happen.

 

First, vanguards do have the perception as being kill-stealers, which is a side-effect of being able to biotic charge into a group of enemies everyone has already been shooting on.

 

Second, some vanguards *cough*SmashGuard*cough* are really annoying if you're trying to camp and snipe.

 

Third (and this might be the only semi-legitimate one), vanguards tend to die a lot by charging into bosses/sync-killers, and if you're doing a platinum (or even a gold) anyone playing a vanguard who does not know what they're doing is going to spend most the game dead. Some people just don't like playing with someone who's going to do that, and a lot of the times it's had to gauge how good a player is just from seeing them in the lobby... and sometimes people would rather not take the chance. I'm a Benefit of the Doubt kind of person, myself.

[Beerfish]

Most people realize that Vanguards have to play aggressively to be effective and realize that for that reason they will go down.  As long as they are not going down every two seconds or jetting all over the map they are usually not a problem.  They are massively handicapped by off host lag and things like the absurd bees of doom with the collectors.  Most of them have abilities aside from just charge that need to be used.

 

The Assgaurd for example in my opinion is the best class in the game vs Cerberus due to stasis, grenades and charge abilities.

[DcIhNaGv3z]

I dont know about other people, but when I play a vanguard, i am a moth to a flame.

 

Must... resist... urge.... but there are so many enemies!  Leap into the fray!  And... i am down.  

[Deerber]

I dont know about other people, but when I play a vanguard, i am a moth to a flame.

 

Must... resist... urge.... but there are so many enemies!  Leap into the fray!  And... i am down.  

 

Why should you resist? Just charge and charge and charge again and die and die and die again until you learn how to deal with bad situations and you can just charge and kill everything in sight.

[steamcamel]

I dont know about other people, but when I play a vanguard, i am a moth to a flame.

 

Must... resist... urge.... but there are so many enemies!  Leap into the fray!  And... i am down.  

Captain Obvious at your service ...

 

1) Never play off-host. It sucks.

 

2) Charge around the flanks (target isolated enemies and pick them off). Never charge into a spot where you'll be surrounded.

 

3) If a large group is in front of you, charge the rearmost, weaker enemy. In other words, get the others to turn around and shift their fire away from your teammates.

 

4) Use heavy melee to stagger and buy precious nanoseconds.

 

5) Don't charge big bosses, unless you know how to tank them.

 

The trick is knowing when to charge and when not to. Only way to do that is through lots and lots of trial and error.

[Deerber]

The trick is pressing the charge button before your brain is able to ask too many questions.

Fixed

[Beerfish]

Captain Obvious at your service ...

 

 

5) Don't charge big bosses, unless you know how to tank them.

 

 

Charging Brutes is a bit of a risk and banshees as well.  Atlas's and primes can essentially be charged all you like.  The thing that gets you if charging them is some stray mook of to the side so be careful of that.  if an Atlas is isolated you can normally just keep charging him and staggering him as your team mates blast away.  (A bit more difficult with a big slow mover like a krogan though.)

[grailseeker91]

For vanguards, I favor the front-line in your face fighter. Who you charge and when as has already been stated depends on your skill level; I have seen vanguards who can shout Leeroy Jenkins and charge into a group of bosses on platinum and kill quickly, while others die to a loan assault trooper on bronze.  As an infiltrator, I do appreciate the concern if I need someone to watch my back, but if this becomes a problem then either I've failed at my job, there was bad luck, or space magic most likely in the form of a banshee in which case it's up to me to cloak and run.  While I'm not a great vanguard player, I found the following tips helpful

 

1.)Charge as often as you can- only sync killers become a problem if you're barrier stays up routinely

2.)Develop situational awareness as this mitigates the classic "note to medics you can probably find the vanguard under the turret or next to the sync killer" as well as be less likely to get swarmed.

2B.) On this note if you see a turret about to go online don't charge the engineer-depending on how much oomph your character has the turret might survive and you will be shredded before charge is available. Also learn the signs of sync prep that can help you know when to tank vs shoot vs run around and serve as useful bait if all else fails.

3.)Against the geth picking off individual units is best as geth quickly go into stunlock spam. Even kroguards and batguards can quickly be overwhelmed if they're denied their charge.

4.)Have a good weapon in case of lag or to help deal with sync kill bosses if you're unsure about your tanking ability.

5.)Yes vanguards tend to die a lot it goes with the class design, bugs, and enemies treating them as focus fire priority so don't let a few bad games let you down.

6.) Charge and support powers do in fact make you useful for devices so long as you clear the area and either immediately start the device or move on to cause havoc elsewhere.

6B.) The same thing that makes you useful for devices makes you a viable medic as well.

[MaxCrushmore]

Vanguards, in general, are excellent at drawing aggro, and some of the ultimate mook killers. Certainly the best class for dealing with Phantoms

 

I think people, many times, are too hesitant to play them off-host. Only the most laggy games are a problem. i admit, the Slayer on host is an absolute killing machine .. weapons not even needed, and off host PD is way way way less effective, but the rest of the Vanguards are playable off host.

 

Once you have some game experience, and learn the different enemy attack animations, Vanguards become very powerful.

 

In particular, the Drell and Asari are two of the most powerful kits in the game (especially on Gold and below). Massive damage output, they are great against bosses and mooks, esp when using incendiary or disruptor ammo. Everyone knows the ultimate way to cheese the Geth is with the Krogan vanguard ...

 

I admit, experienced players probably shouldn't play Silver or Bronze with these kits, as it may not leave much for any of your teammates to do ..

[Sailears]

Role?

 

Kill everything in your way.