48 réponses à ce sujet

[DcIhNaGv3z]

I realize that Tactical Cloak is already extremely powerful, and squeezing out a little extra damage seems unnecessary, but nonetheless.

 

Someone will have to give the exact numbers, but the damage bonus from tactical cloak lasts ~2.5 seconds from the moment an action breaks the cloak (+/- .5 give or take).  And a common practice is to protect power cooldown time by using powers from within the cloak e.g.  AIU snap freeze, TGI overload, SI prox mine (you get the idea), all cast while cloaked.  

 

The thing is, using a power within cloak takes away a solid second of the cloak damage bonus window due to the power's animation time.  And that's time which could be spent shooting with cloak bonus damage.  Recently, I have been running with bonus power, so I can fully leverage the entire cloak damage bonus window.  From my subjective experience, the extra cloak damage bonus time that is gained by bonus power, is noticeably superior to the 25% weapon damage bonus.

 

This does greatly depend on what type of weapon is being used, bonus power favors automatic weapons, whereas single shot weapons would not receive the advantage.  

 

My "platinum standard" GI 4/6/6/6/4 PPR w/ Incendiary build has been respeced as 6/6/6/6/0 with bonus power.

 

Thoughts?

[Excella Gionne]

It's only good if you're gonna follow up with an attack after using a particular power, for example: Proxy Mine + GI Melee. 

 

Other than that, I see no use for it.

[The BLVD Knight]

Underrated? Hmmmmmm,

 

The only things I can think that are more overrated are 

 

Harrier

Piranha

Adas

Harrier and the

Harrier

 

Infiltrators have earned/deserved their "op status", from day one even. 

[Deerber]

The choice on good infiltrators is between bonus power and SR damage. Good SRs are not automatic, or if they are (BW) they have such a low RoF that they work, in this regard, the same as the other good single shot snipers. So...

When you go 6 ranks in cloak, it's usually for getting the SR bonus damage, which is *huge* by the way. Otherwise you tipically go 4 ranks in it.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

The cloak isn't considered "broken" when you begin the animation of a power used while under its effects, but rather, at the end of the animation. So, by skipping "Bonus Power" you don't actually lose any time from the damage bonus window (except the time it takes to recover from using the power and shoot or whathaveyou, which would depend on the power in question.)

 

That having been said, I agree that Bonus Power is underrated.

[Fortack]

It's somewhat useful for a couple melee builds plus the SS-spamming Shadow. That's about it.

[J. Peterman]

Loooooooooooooooooooooool

[TheNightSlasher]

I like it on the shadow because it allows me to pull off a SS + melee or 2 SS or SS + ES in one cloak cycle.

A sticky grenade spamming HI benefits from bonus power too because cryo blast has a travel time, and stickies explode with a delay. With bonus power evo, you can get the cloak damage boost to the sticky explosion too. (Similar reasoning can be applied to the QFI too). Someone made a thread about this build a while back, not sure who.

 

Apart from that, I don't see it being useful anywhere else. Sniping infiltrators, shotgun AIU and assault rifle TGI benefit from the respective weapon bonuses, more than bonus power. Huntress is better off with power damage at rank 6 IMO. 

 

Among non-snipers:

GI, SI - I prefer having 4 ranks in fitness over bonus power

DI - Neither recon mine nor homing grenades break cloak, so bonus power is kinda pointless

QMI - Arc grenades don't break cloak. And I prefer tac scanning out of cloak because of its short CD.

Bonus power is decent on a melee QFI too.

 

That pretty much sums it up, I think.

[DcIhNaGv3z]

The choice on good infiltrators is between bonus power and SR damage. Good SRs are not automatic, or if they are (BW) they have such a low RoF that they work, in this regard, the same as the other good single shot snipers. So...

When you go 6 ranks in cloak, it's usually for getting the SR bonus damage, which is *huge* by the way. Otherwise you tipically go 4 ranks in it.

 

I agree, and did mention that choosing bonus power would be greatly dependent on the type of weapon.  For automatic weapons, I would argue that an extra second with 80% damage bonus is > then anything in fitness.  Take the GI for example.  Cloak --> prox mine --> shoot, repeat.  But prox mine eats 1 second out of the cloak damage window.  With bonus power, you can fully leverage the entire cloak bonus damage window because prox mine does not break the cloak, shooting does.

[PHOEN1XK1NG]

Underrated and Unnecessary are two completely different things...

[DcIhNaGv3z]

The cloak isn't considered "broken" when you begin the animation of a power used while under its effects, but rather, at the end of the animation.

 

Really!?  Can others confirm this is accurate, I have never heard this before.  

[Kurt M.]

Underrated? Really?

 

....really?

 

The thing is, using a power within cloak takes away a solid second of the cloak damage bonus window due to the power's animation time.

 

That will be for you. I don't wait for the cloak animation to finish in order to start shooting.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Really!?  Can others confirm this is accurate, I have never heard this before.  

 

It's most obvious on the Shadow, where it's easy to cancel the animation of ES. Cloak, then start the animation for ES, and perform a cartwheel dodge (or any animation-interrupting action) before the ES animation completes. You'll find that you're still in cloak.

 

Taking duration for Rank 4 will make it easier for you to test. You can also visually see it with SS on the Shadow. If you SS outside of Cloak, you are visible during the animation, but if you have cloak on, you have the "translucent" effect until you actually strike the enemy.

[Sailears]

QFI with duration and bonus power is very very fun and very underrated considering the "most efficient" way to play is damage, but that gets boring... much more fun to move around like a ghost, most of the time nothing can touch you. Equip something like the raider, paladin or whatever you like and have fun toying with everything.

 

Shadow of course is a given, but there's two sides to that coin.

[capn233]

Not underrated at all.

[Quarian Master Race]

Its more useful than the 4 ranks of fitness you'd get otherwise, but I think you'd have to be daft to take it over the 25% weapon damage bonus, especially on kits with grenades and hitscan powers.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I was bored, so I actually recorded what I was talking about...

 

 

In the video, here's what the Shadow does:

 

1. Tactical Cloak

2. Electric Slash is initiated

3. Electric Slash is animation-cancelled by a backwards cartwheel, no refresh, TC's duration continues.

4. Electric Slash is initiated a second time, and completed, starting a 2.5 second damage bonus window, and activating Electric Slash's cooldown (about 2.4 seconds, I think.)

5. Electric Slash is initiated a third time, and completed, starting a 2.5 second damage bonus window, breaking cloak and activating Tactical Cloak's cooldown (about 3.1 seconds, I think.)

 

It's surprisingly easy to use Electric Slash with Cloak out in the open (something not everyone realizes.) Since I got the hang of timing it with Cloak, I can eek out a lot of extra damage from Tactical Cloak using bonus power.

[DcIhNaGv3z]

Thanks Jeremiah.  I have not been paying close enough attention to the power animation vs when the cloak actually breaks.  I have always just assumed the initiation of a power breaks the cloak, rather then the end of the animation.  I appreciate that info.

 

Now I am trying to figure out why I seem to notice such a big difference.  AIU w/ Piranha seemed significantly better with bonus power over the 25% shotgun damage.  I recognize its a subjective observation.  But now I wonder if its more in my play style.  Its probably me who delays between using a power, lining up to shot, then actually shooting.  If I am introducing a time delay, then its me who's eating into the cloaks bonus window, but, bonus power rectifies that.

[capn233]

Well part of that may be the fact that Shotgun Damage is a bit unreliable depending on the situation.

[Miniditka77]

I have always wondered about what the OP is saying.  I think that for infiltrators where you're using a weapon with a magazine that you won't deplete in 2.5 seconds and a weapon-dependent bonus that isn't the same as the weapon you're using, it makes sense.  Especially classes that have a debuff power that you fire before shooting.

 

The GI, QFI, SI, HI, and AIU could all get a damage boost from taking bonus power if using the right weapon, like the Harrier, Piranha, Hurricane, etc.  I really doubt that the TGI would benefit if using an Assault Rifle, or that the AIU would benefit if using a Shotgun.  I also doubt that any of the normal infiltrators would benefit if using a SR.

 

EDIT:  This is with the assumption that breaking cloak by firing a power shortens the damage boost window from 2.5 sec to 1.5 sec, which I understood to be the case.  If this is not the case, then bonus power isn't going to help you much.

[Cyonan]

It's not entirely when the animation ends but rather when the game registers that you've taken an action that should break Tactical Cloak, which will happen at the same time the cooldown of the ability would be triggered. In the case of ES, it's closer to the end of the animation.

 

Cloak's damage bonus only lasts 1.5 seconds after it breaks though. The 2.5 comes from a 1 second minimum duration that you will always get even if you take an action that should break the cloak immediately.

 

If you don't do anything for the first second of cloak that breaks it however, you lose that 1 second and it's just a 1.5 second bonus.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Thanks Jeremiah.  I have not been paying close enough attention to the power animation vs when the cloak actually breaks.  I have always just assumed the initiation of a power breaks the cloak, rather then the end of the animation.  I appreciate that info.

 

Now I am trying to figure out why I seem to notice such a big difference.  AIU w/ Piranha seemed significantly better with bonus power over the 25% shotgun damage.  I recognize its a subjective observation.  But now I wonder if its more in my play style.  Its probably me who delays between using a power, lining up to shot, then actually shooting.  If I am introducing a time delay, then its me who's eating into the cloaks bonus window, but, bonus power rectifies that.

 

There are probably a few things at play. I've heard there are issues with the 25% shotgun damage applying properly, which may account for a lot.

 

Bonus Power also allows you to adjust your timing more easily when combining more than one attack (presuming the first is a power.) In some situations, that can be more useful than additional up-front damage on the first attack.

 

If a power evolution is opening your options up, and you find you're more effective using it, I'd say it's a very legit alternative to additional damage. I do remember using Bonus Power on the AIU, but I later dropped it, when I went almost full-melee with her.

[DcIhNaGv3z]

Bonus power was something I have never even considered on any infiltrator.  I have always taken the weapon specific 25% bonus, or, if I am not using said specific weapon, to only take 4 ranks into tactical cloak.  Well... huntress I take the extra power damage.  

 

But I have absolutely underrated bonus power.  The GI using a PPR (or other high rate of fire weapon) seems significantly more powerful using bonus power, and dropping the 4 ranks in fitness.  I always aim the proximity mine at the feet of enemies, and bonus power helps to give me that buffer time needed to line up my shots without sacrificing any of the cloak's bonus damage window.

 

Remaining cloaked with the ability to stagger does have some nice advantages too.  In a pinch when I need to escape, I can cloak, mine to stagger enemies and run, while still remaining cloaked.  I have also been able to leverage the cloak & power to help save people about to be stomped, using the power to interrupt the stomp and doing the revive while still cloaked.  And when doing devices, I can cloak, set a mine, while remaining cloaked on the device.  Its allowed me to succeed on some devices which normally would have gotten interrupted, but the mine stagger helped buy those extra seconds.

 

I cant believe I wrote off bonus power as a garbage rank.  imo its made some of the most powerful kits even more versatile.  

[Sailears]

My point of view is quite simple - infiltrators already do disgustingly high damage no matter how you spec cloak. Unless you need to overcome a damage threshold for some purpose (ie, enemy hitpoint threshold for shadow strike damage, or mook hitpoint threshold for SR bodyshot OHK or whatever), the difference between damage/duration and bonuspower/damage is unimportant. What matters is what you find most fun on any given kit.

[Gladerunner]

I almost always pick Duration and Bonus Power, even though it most likely turns that infiltrator into another power centric class. 

 

Drell Infiltrator that can fire and perhaps detonate two Recon Mines while cloaked is rather amusing, as is being able to fire Homing Grenades in addition.

 

Asari Huntress doing Biotic Explosions while cloaked is also pretty novel, even though the 40% power damage boost is pretty tempting.

 

Besides the N7 Shadow, the Salarian Infiltrator is also a good candidate, having two very useful powers - Energy drain and Proximity mine.

 

Overall, I prefer qualitative differences over quantitative differences, although this is mediated by usefulness and how situational it is.