48 réponses à ce sujet

[smeckie]

Loooooooooooooooooooooool

E-peen post

[OniGanon]

It's somewhat useful for a couple melee builds plus the SS-spamming Shadow. That's about it.

 

This, pretty much. I've used it to good effect on the Shadow, QFI and GI melee builds.

[TheBunz]

GI 5/6/6/6/3
Proxy mine just for added debuff with cloak for boss melting.

[EnemySpinach]

TLDR version: I cannot reccommend Bonus Power on anything that is not a Shadow, for reasons outlined below.

 

 

 

The big issue with Bonus Power is cooldowns. Or rather, needing to wait out the cooldown to use that second power. I'll explain what I mean via math and scenarios and such.

Since everyone is discussing Prox Mine and Bonus Power, I'll use the Salarian Infiltrator as an example, due to the fact that it gets Energy Drain as well, for more options. For this example, I'll be using the Widow X, because it's a pretty good Rare, and Rares are easy to max out (compared to URs; rares are guaranteed.)

 

Scenario 1: Weapon Damage build: http://kalence.drupa...13U55314!GDDA.O

Your Cloak - Prox Mine - Shoot cycle takes 3 seconds thanks to the three second rule of instantly decloaking (Assuming one shot; Reload Cancelling is not always an option.) In this three seconds, your mine (specced for pure damage and damage taken) does 1440 damage, You do not need duration on your cloak, so you spec it for maximum damage. If shooting an enemy hit with a prox mine, your single shot will do 5037 damage.
 

It's also worth pointing out that you could use ammo that primes power combos very easily this way. Just saying,

 

1440 + 5037 damage = 6477 damage roughly every 3 seconds. (On a body shot - cloak is specced for bonus headshot damage)


Scenario 2: Power Damage Build W/Bonus Power: http://kalence.drupa...13U55314!08DE.O

First off, yeah, using the same weapon and such. While you could switch to an SMG and use an Expert Package or something, I just really wanted to highlight the raw difference between the two builds by comparing the severe loss in damage with the same weapon; it's a much more direct and easy to compare number. I DID swap the barrel for a lighter variant to help the cooldowns (I'm aware of the weight glitch, but players joining can reset that,) but that's it; and the base weapon damage bonus is still the same, it just does 10 less damage to armor

 

The thing is... first off, you need to spec cloak for duration due to cooldowns. Otherwise you cannot squeeze that second power out at all. This leads to a substantial loss in weapon power. You CAN Energy Drain into Mine without Duration, but you cannot Double Mine or Mine into ED if specced for damage. Secondly, because of waiting for these cooldowns, this significantly increases the time spent on your cloaking cycle, raising it to roughly 10 seconds, since you're feeling the brunt of a much larger part of Cloak's cooldown.

 

1368 damage + 1368 damage + 3319 damage = 6055 damage roughly every 10 seconds.

 

 

Direct comparison:

So Let's bring the cloak cycles to the same period of time, for a moment, or rather, how much you can squeeze out of a 30 second skirmish. 30 seconds is a good common denominator to work with, since they both ROUGHLY multiply up to it. You could argue about slight delays in both methods, such as not recloaking immediately due to not having a target lined up, etc, but these apply to both methods so let's just keep it as simple as possible.
 

6477 damage every 3 seconds = 64770 damage every 30 seconds
6055 damage every 10 seconds = 18165 damage every 30 seconds

 

Um... I can't be the only one questioning why the bottom set would be considered, can I? The bottom set probably puts you near the bottom of your team's output, since you cannot be shooting at all during the time spent waiting on cooldowns. As such, even though you have a 40% boost to the powers/shots you DO put out, that also means larger gaps where you're not shooting at all, and everyone else still is.

I know you can make the power build more effective by making it lighter and other things, but this was just the easiest direct comparison method. By all means run it with a Hurricane or something. It's still inefficient compared to the weapon build.

 

 

As for why the Shadow is a worthy user of Bonus Power: If specced right, you can get well over 4000 damage out of Shadow Strike. This is worth the trade off.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I don't think the point of the thread was to definitively determine the "one true way to play Tactical Cloak."

 

Nor do I think using extreme examples proves that one shouldn't ever use a power evolution.

[Beerfish]

TC has never been about weapon bonus in any case.  It's about those filthy infiltrators sheding agro onto the non infils in the group.

[NuclearTech76]

Loooooooooooooooooooooool

This. Shadow is the only infiltrator that I think it's arguable on due to the nature of her power putting her in harms way. 

 

You can drop aggro fine with the shorter duration cloak, you can kill better with damage cloak, every other power an infiltrator has is going to be similar CD wise if you cloak twice and use bonus damage. Only on devices does it even matter.

[Miniditka77]

TLDR version: I cannot reccommend Bonus Power on anything that is not a Shadow, for reasons outlined below.

 

Based on your calculations and the fact that you're talking about the Widow, I don't think you completely understand the OP's point.  The OP is saying you might be able to get more damage out of a rapid fire weapon by taking Bonus Power.  The rationale is that if the weapon breaks cloak instead of the power you fired before you started shooting, you will be able to get more shots in under the Cloak bonus.  Nobody is talking about using Bonus Power to get 2 powers in under one cloak cycle - you're right, that's dumb.  Even on the Shadow, you really aren't maximizing your damage output by doing that.  The OP is still talking about Cloak-Power-Shoot quickly, but the action that breaks the Cloak is changed.  It sounds to me like it would probably make a miniscule difference with most setups, but with certain powers, it could make a difference due to long animations. 

[NuclearTech76]

Based on your calculations and the fact that you're talking about the Widow, I don't think you completely understand the OP's point.  The OP is saying you might be able to get more damage out of a rapid fire weapon by taking Bonus Power.  The rationale is that if the weapon breaks cloak instead of the power you fired before you started shooting, you will be able to get more shots in under the Cloak bonus.  Nobody is talking about using Bonus Power to get 2 powers in under one cloak cycle - you're right, that's dumb.  Even on the Shadow, you really aren't maximizing your damage output by doing that.  The OP is still talking about Cloak-Power-Shoot quickly, but the action that breaks the Cloak is changed.  It sounds to me like it would probably make a miniscule difference with most setups, but with certain powers, it could make a difference due to long animations. 

I really can't think of a long animation on an infiltrator outside of the Shadow with SS and ES. I guess maybe snap freeze on the AIU would be the next longest off the top of my head. The damage difference still isn't going to tilt TTK into the favor of bonus power IMHO. If one were to run a Striker or Adas on the TGI you might have an argument for bonus cloak in those situations as they don't break cloak if you cloak while firing.

[capn233]

I don't think the point of the thread was to definitively determine the "one true way to play Tactical Cloak."

 

Nor do I think using extreme examples proves that one shouldn't ever use a power evolution.

 

No I am pretty sure the point of this forum is to convince everyone to use identical builds on all the characters.

 

[Fortack]

I really can't think of a long animation on an infiltrator outside of the Shadow with SS and ES. I guess maybe snap freeze on the AIU would be the next longest off the top of my head.

 

Tactical Scan would like to have a word with you.

[Quarian Master Race]

Tactical Scan would like to have a word with you.

LOL @ anyone who casts tac scan from cloak.

[Excella Gionne]

LOL @ anyone who casts tac scan from cloak.

I do. It gives me 80% damage boost with a side of polonium rounds and a ship relic for my pilgrimage. 

[Jelena Jankovic]

I hardly use sniper rifles on Infiltrators

[NuclearTech76]

LOL @ anyone who casts tac scan from cloak.

Swarmers are sort of hard to hit if you're not using a sniper rifle. 

[DcIhNaGv3z]

The thing is... first off, you need to spec cloak for duration due to cooldowns. Otherwise you cannot squeeze that second power out at all. This leads to a substantial loss in weapon power. 

 

But I am not suggesting you use bonus power to actually use another power, but simply to hold the cloak active until you are actually ready to shoot.  I am using bonus power almost as if I dont have bonus power.  Take a GI PPR with incendiary cloak --> mine --> shoot --> [while still shooting] cloak --> continue shooting.  Its just like the common 4/6//6/6/4 build.

 

But with a 6/6/6/6/0 Bonus power build, the bonus power affords me a great deal of leeway in terms of exactly how I can use the mine.  And in practice, it gives me approximately .5 to 1 second of additional cloak damage bonus because the mine didnt break the cloak, shooting did.   

[Cyonan]

But I am not suggesting you use bonus power to actually use another power, but simply to hold the cloak active until you are actually ready to shoot.  I am using bonus power almost as if I dont have bonus power.  Take a GI PPR with incendiary cloak --> mine --> shoot --> [while still shooting] cloak --> continue shooting.  Its just like the common 4/6//6/6/4 build.

 

But with a 6/6/6/6/0 Bonus power build, the bonus power affords me a great deal of leeway in terms of exactly how I can use the mine.  And in practice, it gives me approximately .5 to 1 second of additional cloak damage bonus because the mine didnt break the cloak, shooting did.   

 

Unfortunately the 1 second minimum duration is still ticking away, so you aren't getting as much extra cloak damage as you think you are.

 

If your power's animation lasts less than 1 seconds, then you aren't getting any extra time.

[cato potato]

Scenario 1: Weapon Damage build: http://kalence.drupa...13U55314!GDDA.O

Your Cloak - Prox Mine - Shoot cycle takes 3 seconds thanks to the three second rule of instantly decloaking (Assuming one shot; Reload Cancelling is not always an option.) In this three seconds, your mine (specced for pure damage and damage taken) does 1440 damage, You do not need duration on your cloak, so you spec it for maximum damage. If shooting an enemy hit with a prox mine, your single shot will do 5037 damage.

 

Four seconds, not three. Cloak has a minimum duration of one second and a minimum cooldown of three seconds.

[PurpGuy1]

Tactical Scan would like to have a word with you.

 

I have to cast Tac Scan 4 or 5 times before it will work

 

So TC Duration Evolution is necessary or else cloak runs out before scan takes effect.  And then I have cloak CD and still no Tac Scan

[cato potato]

I have to cast Tac Scan 4 or 5 times before it will work

 

So TC Duration Evolution is necessary or else cloak runs out before scan takes effect.  And then I have cloak CD and still no Tac Scan

 

You could try casting Tac Scan first, then cloak and shoot. Even carrying a Claymore the cooldown on the power is only about 2 seconds.

[PurpGuy1]

You could try casting Tac Scan first, then cloak and shoot. Even carrying a Claymore the cooldown on the power is only about 2 seconds.

 

But that's roughly 10 seconds I spend standing there, out in the open, uncloaked, trying to get Tac Scan to work

 

it's safer to cloak first

[cato potato]

But that's roughly 10 seconds I spend standing there, out in the open, uncloaked, trying to get Tac Scan to work

 

it's safer to cloak first

 

Well, the obvious solution to that is to not stand out in the open, valiantly trying to stare down the enemy

 

Tac Scan is one of the very few powers that you can use while still in hard cover without having to expose yourself to enemy fire at all.

[PurpGuy1]

Well, the obvious solution to that is to not stand out in the open, valiantly trying to stare down the enemy

 

Tac Scan is one of the very few powers that you can use while still in hard cover without having to expose yourself to enemy fire at all.

 

but then the Juggernaut gets ahead of me and I don't want to be forced to use Drill Rounds III every game just to shoot through him and his Large Hex Shield

[Jelena Jankovic]

I generally take bonus power, even with the AIU and huntress

 

I don't with the Turian Ghost, but I get lazy about cloaking with him

 

plus cloak and overload still gives me my AR Bonus from rank 6 (I've been using the PPR with him lately)