310 réponses à ce sujet

[The Baconer]

The Wardens.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Not counting the League of Protagonists, I'd have to say probably the Qunari Antaam or whatever the most elite part of it is.

[SerCambria358]

They are ex-criminals. Joining the order for them is like "dying to their old selves". It's very Andrastian based.

Thats what i mean, they've already lived a life, many of whom decided to turn to crime then afterwards change their ways. Chevaliers and Qunari (much more so qunari) live one life dedicated to combat. Thats the major difference, not to mention, from what we've read on Chevs, they have the most rigorous training known in Thedas

[Tarvesh]

I never doubted that they are skilled, as i said in that same response, they are no doubt very skilled, however being a berserker with a highly trained Mabari does not make you the best especially when you consider the competition which is why i explained the major factors in what makes Chevalier/Qunari training better in quality therefore producing better warriors.

Many of the ash warriors are criminals and they only fight for profit, compare that to a warrior who is literally raised to think "my only purpose in life is to dispose of the opposition therefore i must dedicate every single moment of my life to achieve that goal" when your motivation is profit, you clearly have other priorities because you want to spend that gold you earn. This isnt the case when currency means literally nothing to you and are convinced that your only reason for existing is to kill your enemy, this is the qunari mindset which sets them apart from all others.

One's reason for fighting does not determine one's ability to fight. Regardless of what their reason is for taking in the fight, every warrior's primary reason in battle becomes survival. Not queen. Not country.

I'll place my bets I the ones who make survival their life, not a secondary part to their duty.

[SerCambria358]

One's reason for fighting does not determine one's ability to fight. Regardless of what their reason is for taking in the fight, every warrior's primary reason in battle becomes survival. Not queen. Not country.

I'll place my bets I the ones who make survival their life, not a secondary part to their duty.

Ones reason for fighting and ones dedication for a cause DOES no doubt determine their skill, to an extent depending on the context. 

 

The ash warriors priority in surviving is not a strength because it means if they get into a battle they realize they cant win, they'll run. If an enemy stays in a location where they accept that they will die, they will fight harder and better, a lot of times leading to victory. This is a philosophy written in the Art of War and seen throughout history.

 

If a qunari truly thinks his only purpose is battle, then of course he's only going to train to kill.  So yes motive DOES affect fighting ability

[GenericEnemy]

Overall I'd say the Qunari. The Antaam's entire lives are defined by combat, they know nothing else. Not to mention the natural physical superiority Qunari possess. Chevaliers would probably come close second.

Ash Warriors are remarked as being pretty impressive too, and the Dalish Hunters seem to have a reputation as the best archers around.

[Lulupab]

Most skilled warriors, rogues and even mages are among grey wardens. They are known to take ten to twenty darkspawns at once. The Joining symbolically cut their ties to all worldly concerns, in order to dedicate themselves to fighting the darkspawn and in fact have achieved biggest and mostly impossible victories in history of Thedas.

[Drasanil]

Arcane Warriors, no one cheeses it like they do

[pengwin21]

Judging by the lore, Qunari probably.

[Andraste Take the Wheel]

Grey Wardens.

They have former Chevaliers, Ash Warriors, Templars, Dalish archers and so on among their ranks. Their members likely share knowledge from all of these groups amongst each other, making their already best of the best members even better. All around, they win.

[SerCambria358]

Grey Wardens.

They have former Chevaliers, Ash Warriors, Templars, Dalish archers and so on among their ranks. Their members likely share knowledge from all of these groups amongst each other, making their already best of the best members even better. All around, they win.

"Grey Warden" is too vague of a term in my opinion because as you said they have everyone among their ranks, so its really dependent on the warrior rather than the quality of the organization.

[Aolbain]

From what we've seen, I'd say the Chevaliers.

[Tarvesh]

Ones reason for fighting and ones dedication for a cause DOES no doubt determine their skill, to an extent depending on the context.

The ash warriors priority in surviving is not a strength because it means if they get into a battle they realize they cant win, they'll run. If an enemy stays in a location where they accept that they will die, they will fight harder and better, a lot of times leading to victory. This is a philosophy written in the Art of War and seen throughout history.

If a qunari truly thinks his only purpose is battle, then of course he's only going to train to kill. So yes motive DOES affect fighting ability

Motive and the inability to recognize when You've bitten off more than you can chew are two different things.

A smart warrior doesn't stick around in a fight that he can't win if he can help it. So an Ash Warrior leaving a fight against overwhelming odds doesn't make him any less if a warrior than a chevalier.

I'll grant you that a chevalier or Qunari sten may have more formal training than ash warrior, but all around abilities, as well their connection to their mabari hound, makes the Ask Warrior the more fearsome foe in my opinion.

[SerCambria358]

Motive and the inability to recognize when You've bitten off more than you can chew are two different things.

A smart warrior doesn't stick around in a fight that he can't win if he can help it. So an Ash Warrior leaving a fight against overwhelming odds doesn't make him any less if a warrior than a chevalier.

I'll grant you that a chevalier or Qunari sten may have more formal training than ash warrior, but all around abilities, as well their connection to their mabari hound, makes the Ask Warrior the more fearsome foe in my opinion.

I just explained why realizing and accepting death doesnt guarantee defeat nor does it make someone dumb. 

 

As for all around abilities, Chevaliers still take that, they're training includes learning to use dozens of weapons down to the warriors own fists. Having a Mabari by your side doesnt qualify that person as being more well rounded. While having a highly trained hound at your side is a significant factor that doesnt make them the best especially considering their loss at Ostagar, Grey Wardens have fought the same odds or worse and still won, supporting my opinion that they arent the best

[Mabari-Master]

One thing to bare in mind when concerning the Ash Warriors is the fact that they are very much like the Legion of the Dead who are also a corps made up of repentant criminals and eager volunteers. Both these factions have proved themselves to be incredibly capable in war especially when fighting against a larger force.

 

In the novel "The Calling" Kell mentions that he trained with the Ash Warriors which suggests that they do go through a form of training of some sort. After all, a group of warriors like theirs don't exist for nearly a thousand years simply by being a angry dog masters and not pick up some hardcore techniques and training methods. And since their probably the oldest mercenary group in the world they've probably had plenty of time to perfect their training methods.

 

And while it has been proven that the Chevalier Order is amongst the most elite of all warrior classes in Thedas, time and time again they have been beaten back and defeated by smaller, less trained forces like by the rebels in Ferelden and Kirkwall. 

[Mabari-Master]

The Silent Sisters are also a very note worthy group that deserve respect. Their initiation into the Order involves entering a Proving and winning it barehanded or die. And if they survive that, they cut out their own tongues. You gotta admit, that's pretty hardcore. And from what I read about Utha in The Calling, those are definitely some ladies I wouldn't want mess with. 

[SerCambria358]

One thing to bare in mind when concerning the Ash Warriors is the fact that they are very much like the Legion of the Dead who are also a corps made up of repentant criminals and eager volunteers. Both these factions have proved themselves to be incredibly capable in war especially when fighting against a larger force. And in the novel "The Calling" Kell mentions that he trained with the Ash Warriors which suggests that they do go through a form of training of some sort. After all, a group of warriors like theirs don't exist for nearly a thousand years simply by being a angry dog masters and not pick up some hardcore techniques and training methods.

 

And while it has been proven that the Chevalier Order is amongst the most elite of all warrior classes in Thedas, time and time again they have been beaten back and defeated by smaller, less trained forces like by the rebels in Ferelden and Kirkwall. 

Again, ive never doubted that they are skilled, my argument is that they dont compare to the lifetime amount of training that qunari and Chevaliers go through.

 

As for being beaten before, that isnt a reflection of their skill, the spartans were beaten by lesser persian warriors but that was due to strategy and being outnumbered not because of their lack of skill

[TheJediSaint]

The Wardens.

Seconded.

[Tarvesh]

I just explained why realizing and accepting death doesnt guarantee defeat nor does it make someone dumb.

As for all around abilities, Chevaliers still take that, they're training includes learning to use dozens of weapons down to the warriors own fists. Having a Mabari by your side doesnt qualify that person as being more well rounded. While having a highly trained hound at your side is a significant factor that doesnt make them the best especially considering their loss at Ostagar, Grey Wardens have fought the same odds or worse and still won, supporting my opinion that they arent the best

The Ash Warriors didn't lose at Ostagar. They actually survived it. But that's a bad example seeing as the person who was supposed to break the flank of the horde with his army didn't.

To say they lost the battle would imply that the battle either hinged on their efforts or they made up the bulk of the forces arrayed against the Darkspawn (neither if which is the case).

I respect your opinion of the chevalier and don't deny that they're an elite fighting force. But pound for pound, I'll take an Ash Warrior over a chevalier if given the choice.

[SerCambria358]

The Ash Warriors didn't lose at Ostagar. They actually survived it. But that's a bad example seeing as the person who was supposed to break the flank of the horde with his army didn't.

To say they lost the battle would imply that the battle either hinged in their efforts or they made up the bulk if the forces arrayed against the Darkspawn (neither if which is the case).

I respect your opinion of the chevalier and don't deny that they're an elite fighting force. But pound for pound, I'll take an Ash Warrior over a chevalier if given the choice.

Not dying at a battle does not mean you did not lose. Also just because their planned flank didnt follow through doesnt mean they weren't met with the same odds as Grey Wardens who have won under the same conditions. 

 

I also respect your opinion but i just dont agree with that statement, the most significant factor in an ash warriors fighting ability is their Mabari, a Mabari even a highly trained one isnt a game changer as we saw when their dogs were slaughtered almost instantly. A Mabari lacking armor with a lightly armored ash warrior just isnt enough to stop a heavily armored knight who has trained since childhood in the most rigorous training system of Thedas nor could they compete with a 7ft tall 300+lb qunari who has only thought about defeating his enemy in battle since birth with training most likely just as rigorous 

[Mabari-Master]

The Chevaliers are an elite Order, I have never doubted that and their training is legendarily harsh. They train to fight against various forms of enemies or learn the methods of warriors they are expected to fight. But they can also be predictable. All Chevaliers are nobles and nobles are naturally prideful, and pride comes before a fall. During the Ferelden rebellion Loghain took advantage of the Chevaliers' pride and attacked them at night with his Night Elves. Naturally, a Chevalier won't shirk a night post simply because he might get shot in the eye by some knife-ear. And because Chevaliers are of the nobility they are accustomed to a certain way that war must be waged, because that's what their noble sense of pride and Chevalier honor tells them to do. Throw them into a situation that defies those principals or forces them to choose between those principals and success they will choose their prideful principals over success every time.

 

The art of war states that victory lies in deception and if your enemy is stronger then hit him were he is vulnerable. In the Chevaliers' case it's their ego.

[SerCambria358]

The Chevaliers are an elite Order, I have never doubted that and their training is legendarily harsh. They train to fight against various forms of enemies or learn the methods of warriors they are expected to fight. But they can also be predictable. All Chevaliers are nobles and nobles are naturally prideful, and pride comes before a fall. During the Ferelden rebellion Loghain took advantage of the Chevaliers' pride and attacked them at night with his Night Elves. Naturally, a Chevalier won't shirk a night post simply because he might get shot in the eye by some knife-ear. And because Chevaliers are of the nobility they are accustomed to a certain way that war must be waged, because that's what their noble sense of pride and Chevalier honor tells them to do. Throw them into a situation that defies those principals or forces them to choose between those principals and success they will choose their prideful principals over success every time.

 

The art of war states that victory lies in deception and if your enemy is stronger then hit him were he is vulnerable. In the Chevaliers' case it's their ego.

Their ego is a major strategic flaw, but that ego doesnt reflect their fighting ability as an individual. Thats what we've been discussing 

[Lulupab]

During the history of mankind elite knights have always failed against guerrilla tactics and warfare. Chevaliers are no different. I'm not doubting their skill, they are simply not prepared for that.

And lets not just base this on knights. Antivan pirates are the only human fleet who defeated a Qunari fleet armed with explosives because they abused mist, waves and wind to their favor.