881 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

Well Cryp's did say they were promised the power of gods if they went to the fade so someone did lure them there and they got what they were promised they are immortal and extremely powerful.

It was Dumat.

[HiroVoid]

Well Cryp's did say they were promised the power of gods if they went to the fade so someone did lure them there and they got what they were promised they are immortal and extremely powerful.

By becoming darkspawn.....huh.  I'm surprised there wasn't more speculation on this before 'Legacy' about what happened to them.

[Mr.House]

By becoming darkspawn.....huh.  I'm surprised there wasn't more speculation on this before 'Legacy' about what happened to them.

The fact that Cory can even body and cause distress and alk to other wardens like the Archdemon also makes it much more curious.

[HiroVoid]

The fact that Cory can even body and cause distress and alk to other wardens like the Archdemon also makes it much more curious.

Yeah.  I'm still hoping the Black City is the final level/area for Inquisition.

[raging_monkey]

Yeah.  I'm still hoping the Black City is the final level/area for Inquisition.

we went in once should able to again

[TheKomandorShepard]

Blood magic is usually the one who causes problem, because of the whole demon thing. Never the less it requires magic to fix the veil of some kind.

 

Well Avernus wouldn't have done like he did if it wasn't because of the rebellion and the fact they were trapped like rats which is a fact.

 

You still need some kind of magic to close a fade tear, maybe these fade tear were different then then the other ones.

 

Maybe or maybe it's the Elder one who did it, one thing is for sure it required a lot of magic, a lot more the most mages have access too. The Qunari mage also managed to get his hands on a rare magical artifact which was his only way to do it, his own magic couldn't do it on it's own, not to mention he knew no other thing then being a weapon he says so himself which is correct as we saw in DA2. What happened with Uldred was an indirect result of the blight among other things and it's not excuses because it doesn't excuse what they did but explains why it happens, while you claim magic is to blame, but that's not the case, it's just the tool used to commit the crime.

 

A knife can kill just as many as nuclear bomb it just takes longer for the knife to do it. There one problem with that theory of yours, people wouldn't know of the Veil if not for mages and they would have even harder time to discover demons because then they can be everywhere with mages you at least know 99 % of the demons will come from them and not somewhere else.

Both causes problem but blood magic more frequently and in the end both require mage.Veil destroyed by blood mage so that you set house on fire then you help extinguish fire is poor excuse to not put arsonist behind bars.

 

Rebelion without mage couldn't casue that if otherwise was in case ferelden would die during fereleden-orlesian war avernus could did that without rebellion in many other conditions and for other reasons as we saw in other cases.

 

Magic that only inquisitor have if there is a way for mage to close veil they don't know it or simple can't besides rare occasions not to mention almost all veil tears as far are caused by mages.  

 

Not rly we know that baroness and avernus tore veil by simple using magic and pride demon in baroness case could open veil.Not mention that qunari mage almost destroyed veil causing end of the world all it took was artefact and his magic.Either way im pretty sure that mages are heavily involved in destroying veil incident. 

 

Yeah very rare artefact that he found barely even trying who knows how many such artefacts we have and there is as i said 10000 other ways for mage cause disasters so well take your pick in what disaster you want die. 

 

Uldred caused what he caused because he had opportunity (and in life you will have a lot of them) and yet he was nothing more than walking bomb as every mage he was already blood mage and was power hungry as i said uldred could cause same incydent by simple fact of being blood mage and he would have many other chances do the same or even bigger disaster.

 

Do i rly have to comment on that? You seems lack any basic understanding on how dangerous something is if you in fact have guts to compare knife to nuclear bomb in terms of danger. 

 

Peoples would eventually would know least on level they can deal with it.

[Keroko]

The Circle is also emant to protect mundanes from mages, it is not an institution to be used as the mages see fit, no matter what they perceive as injustices

And it's not working. The harder the Chantry squeezed mages to 'protect the mundanes' the harder mages fought back. Because shock and awe: Mages are still people, and people don't like to be punished for crimes they never committed.
 

That only worked because Connor was a special case, and even the he slaughter hundreds before anything could be done. Not the most sound of plans.

Amusingly, Connor is an example of the flaws in the Circle system. The Circle as it is, by Chantry laws, allows next to no contact with family. What the Chantry was asking of Connor's family was to abandon their child, barely ever seeing him again.

Very few mothers would be happy with this.

More than a few would fight it.

Connor's mother did. She did what most mothers would do and protected her child from an organization that would take him away from her. Yes, it was a mistake on her part. But the root cause is the fact that the Chantry doesn't allow mages to maintain contact with their families.
 

Grand Clerics are more likely to be interested in the wellfare of their own countries before any Orlesian interests; the Divine will, of course, have her influence and since her neighbor is the Emperor, she's not likely to speak against him, but this influence is not unlimited.
Elthina proved a Grand Cleric can just say "no" to the Divine. Altough this is bound to have consequences depending on which Grand Cleric tried to do that. I, for one, can't see the Divine eager to strain relation with the single, largest Templar army in the East.

I meant more that sneaky back-room politics and backstabbing are already deeply ingrained in the spine of the Chantry itself. Rebuilding it into something less... shadowy is going to take smashing the current powerbase, reviewing the entire Chant of Light and rebuilding both from the ground up.
 

The Chant is a lovely moral guide but it lacks practical application. That was left to the Andrasteans that came after.
It is easy to claim non-maleficarum mages are also children of the Maker but brotherhood is dificult to mantain if the mages are gobbling up every inch of power over society they can.
The Chant can try to teach mages to use their powers for the good of mankind but who ensures they actually do it?
Their own moral or the armed men who are part of the non-mage group and thus have a vested interest in seeing it protected from mages, a different social group?
I'm going with option B, myself.

You're accusing mages of 'gobbling up every inch of power in society they can' but this accusation can just as easily be levelled at nobles or merchants. Yet the Chantry does nothing about these.
 

People saying a choices is a bad idea does not mean they think the choices shouldn't exist.

Very much this. I'm all for there being a choice to to full-templar and crush the mage rebellion. I'll just make a different one (at least, in my first playthrough).
 

Wynne was not in the company oft he warden after DAO and Asunder and she had ALOT of freedom for a circle mage. Mages who behave and show that are rewarded.

I'm... having severe trouble believing she had a lot of freedom simply because she behaved. Especially since in her very Circle there was a group plotting a hostile takeover because they couldn't take the abuse anymore, showing that getting rewarded good behaviour wasn't exactly common. Or very hard to do.

At what age does a mage get the 'trustworthy, may travel without supervision' stamp?
 

Its been confirmed that Rivain has abomination problems. Its simply likened to natural disasters like hurricanes and such.

And yet not enough for the people to clamour for mages to be locked up. Much less mass-murder them. Huh. Now I'm really interested in Rivain culture, got a source with that tidbit of info?
 

Except mages actually did cause everything they're blamed for.

Some mages did the things mages were blamed for. Many other mages do not. If a distant relative of yours committed a murder, would you happily go to jail just because you're distantly related to him?

[Ryriena]

Ok Cory only says they were lured into the city by someone. So the chantry says the mage went to them Yes by locking up all mages, they blame them for all the sins and ills in the world. When a few mages got lured by power instead of their pride which the chantry says is the reason they went to the black city. The city was also black way before said expedition in too the fade so it wasn't the mages whom turned the city black. If you listen too Cory's dialog he talks about them seeing a blacken city before they even entered said city.

[Master Warder Z_]

A big part in the defeat as to the codex the Qunari where winning until the chantry allowed mages to fight in the war. So I blame the chantry for being scared little boys that would have let the Qunari win until they had not many men. They only let mages fight in the war until they where loosing.

You really do like mix up lore, magic was the response to Gatlock, not Qunari soldiers.

For example Kikwall was retaken by Orlesian
Cheivalers.

Not once was a mage mentioned in that codex.

[Exaltation]

The Chantry is not evil,there are bad people in it which do bad things,and good people that do nothing lol.

[Ryriena]

You really do like mix up lore, magic was the response to Gatlock, not Qunari soldiers.

For example Kikwall was retaken by Orlesian
Cheivalers.

Not once was a mage mentmentioned in that codex.

I read that it was the Qurani wars mages where a good part of it. They help steam the tided in a losing war according to the codex. So magic helped in a war that the chantry was losing. Gatlock is, what I would call the gunpowder of Thedas.

[Mr.House]

I read that it was the Qurani wars mages where a good part of it. They help steam the tided in a losing war according to the codex. So magic helped in a war that the chantry was losing. Gatlock is, what I would call the gunpowder of Thedas.

So that's why mages helped take back Kirkwall during the war right? Oh wait....

[raging_monkey]

So that's why mages helped take back Kirkwall during the war right? Oh wait....

battles can be won or lost... in kirkwall the just lost

[Keroko]

Did you saw noble that wanted or went for world destruction?Nobles are peoples in charge of society or rather high in rank they at worst can be abusive but not suicidal and if such example was in case such person would be put down by society because who will follow person that want destroy their society or human kind?

If the noble gets greedy and decides he wants more land, they can easily cause more death and destruction than mages. The history of Thedas is filled with greedy nobles starting wars and killing uncountable people. By the logic of "they're a potential danger, so lock 'em up" they should all be long locked up by now.
 

Mages have machine gune since their birth waot wrong they have weapon and potential for destruction bigger than machine gun and if i had machine gun police would arrest me because i would be danger to everyone and in that case you can't remove that weapon.

You'd be arrested for breaking the law that you can't own a machine gun. But you wouldn't be arrested for your kitchen full of knives, which can make you a danger for everyone around you as well.

People in our world are generally arrested for the crimes they commit. You committed a crime when you illegally bought a machine gun, and were arrested for that crime. Not for being a potential danger. But if I were to treat you like a criminal your whole life for having a kitchen full of knives, nobody would look up up in surprise when you finally decided to stab me with those knives.

It's very common to see people who are treated as punks start to act like punks, and people who are treated as criminals to start act like criminals. Treating mages like dangerous psychopaths ready to kill someone at a moment's notice? That's a self fulfilling prophecy practically begging mages to act as such.
 

Not rly diffrence is in that they see that as natural disasters and same can be said for tevinter we pretty much barely heard about any abominations or disasters there because we weren't there and we know they practice blood magic.Same here as we know they are creating abominations.In fact 99 % of cases we heard about abomnations problems were in places we saw so sorry pal pretty much by your logic every other place is abomnation safe because we didn't heard about any cases.

Indeed. I will have to concede that. However, they still remain a much safer place for both sides, given that the abomination incidents are never bad enough for the people of Rivain to cry out for mage blood, or bad enough for the Chantry to pick up on the news.

So, yeah. Rivain is still a better system. The Chantry has shown that their system doesn't work. 19 annulments don't speak in favour of the Chantry's circle system working. Meanwhile the people of Rivain seem to get along with their mages just fine, all without having to imprison them in towers under death threats.
 

Oh you want argue that chantry sucks when it comes to controling mages well i have to disappoint you because i agree.

I'm mostly just confused why you'd still support the Chantry's system when Rivain shows that there are working alternatives that treat the mage side far better.

[pengwin21]

Circle mages are allowed to be visited by their families- Arl Eamon visits Connor and even in Kirkwall's supposedly harsh Circle Leandra visits Bethany and isn't appalled at her being imprisoned or whatnot.

 

Finn doesn't seem that old and he's allowed to leave the tower without a Templar escort as well. The mages to do the lyrium ritual for Connor also do not have a Templar escort I believe, probably because they're traveling with the First Enchanter himself.

[TheEternalStudent]

I hate the Chantry. I want to raze it to the ground and salt the earth where it once was. I want to extinguigh the eternal flame and never again hear the Chant of Light.

But I don't think the Chantry is evil. I don't even think most of the people working in it are bad. I think they are ignorant, and this is worse. I think they've been blinded to the darkness they spread. I think they genuinely believe that they are helping mages and elves. I think they believe themselves to nobly toil for the betterment of all, and that it's other peoples actions that corrut the final work, not thier own flaws when building it.

[raging_monkey]

If the noble gets greedy and decides he wants more land, they can easily cause more death and destruction than mages. The history of Thedas is filled with greedy nobles starting wars and killing uncountable people. By the logic of "they're a potential danger, so lock 'em up" they should all be long locked up by now. You'd be arrested for breaking the law that you can't own a machine gun. But you wouldn't be arrested for your kitchen full of knives, which can make you a danger for everyone around you as well.People in our world are generally arrested for the crimes they commit. You committed a crime when you illegally bought a machine gun, and were arrested for that crime. Not for being a potential danger. But if I were to treat you like a criminal your whole life for having a kitchen full of knives, nobody would look up up in surprise when you finally decided to stab me with those knives.It's very common to see people who are treated as punks start to act like punks, and people who are treated as criminals to start act like criminals. Treating mages like dangerous psychopaths ready to kill someone at a moment's notice? That's a self fulfilling prophecy practically begging mages to act as such. Indeed. I will have to concede that. However, they still remain a much safer place for both sides, given that the abomination incidents are never bad enough for the people of Rivain to cry out for mage blood, or bad enough for the Chantry to pick up on the news.So, yeah. Rivain is still a better system. The Chantry has shown that their system doesn't work. 19 annulments don't speak in favour of the Chantry's circle system working. Meanwhile the people of Rivain seem to get along with their mages just fine, all without having to imprison them in towers under death threats. I'm mostly just confused why you'd still support the Chantry's system when Rivain shows that there are working alternatives that treat the mage side far better.

id rather he support the system then him be allowed his other option

[Ryriena]

So that's why mages helped take back Kirkwall during the war right? Oh wait....

And doesn't make a great argument, they did help in fact Orsino helped you create a diversion and my mage Hawke also helped in becoming champion.

[Mr.House]

And doesn't make a great argument, they did help in fact Orsino helped you create a diversion and my mage Hawke also helped in becoming champion.

I'm talking about the war, not DA2.....

 

 

Good job getting your lore wrong.

[Master Warder Z_]

And doesn't make a great argument, they did help in fact Orsino helped you create a diversion and my mage Hawke also helped in becoming champion.

Which has what to do with the Qunari Wars?

[raging_monkey]

lets play nice

[TTTX]

Magic that only inquisitor have if there is a way for mage to close veil they don't know it or simple can't besides rare occasions not to mention almost all veil tears as far are caused by mages.  

 

Yeah very rare artefact that he found barely even trying who knows how many such artefacts we have and there is as i said 10000 other ways for mage cause disasters so well take your pick in what disaster you want die. 

 

Uldred caused what he caused because he had opportunity (and in life you will have a lot of them) and yet he was nothing more than walking bomb as every mage he was already blood mage and was power hungry as i said uldred could cause same incydent by simple fact of being blood mage and he would have many other chances do the same or even bigger disaster.

 

Do i rly have to comment on that? You seems lack any basic understanding on how dangerous something is if you in fact have guts to compare knife to nuclear bomb in terms of danger. 

 

Peoples would eventually would know least on level they can deal with it.

Justice could do that to, just saying.

 

Yeah, I doubt most mages would be able to find those kind artifacts, the only reason the Qunari managed to do it seems to be because he got the location from the keeper of that dalish group or else I doubt he would have been able to find it in the first place. There are many ways to die, in the lands of Thedas you still have more of chance to die at the hands of a sword then a mage attack with the exception of Tevinter.

 

In a mage life opportunists are rare even in Tevinter and if he had done at another time the Templars would have gotten reinforcements they needed to annulled the circle the only reason they didn't in DA:O was because of the blight and civil war.

 

Both things can kill you, not more else to say then a nuclear bomb can kill faster and more painfully then a knife. As for mages most doesn't cause the same numbers of deaths as a nuclear bomb can.

 

And now I have had my fill of pointless discussion with you. Time to do something else.

[Mr.House]

Mages where not involved in the retaking of kirkwall during the Qunari war

 

So while mages did help, non-mages also won massive victories.

[Ryriena]

Circle mages are allowed to be visited by their families- Arl Eamon visits Connor and even in Kirkwall's supposedly harsh Circle Leandra visits Bethany and isn't appalled at her being imprisoned or whatnot.

You picked out nobles family members that are given that option because of their nobility. I doubt commoners such as the elf mage warden or Jowan gets to see their parents she does not even remember her own parents in some dialog. My Amell is sent by her parents, so getting too see them was not a option. Anders, is taken away from his crying mother and was never allowed to see her again. All he has of her is, a pillow that he had given to Varric as a gift. But I headcannoned he gave it to my Hawke mage, after he refused it.

[Ryriena]

Mages where not involved in the retaking of kirkwall during the Qunari war

So while mages did help, non-mages also won massive victories.

Ok then I would say that's the chantry refused them that option to help then?