881 réponses à ce sujet

[EmperorSahlertz]

Given Rivain's lack of trouble in this regard, it seems more likely the high amount of abominations is because of the oppressive Circle system, rather than despite it.

A demon can only poses a mage if the demon manages to coerce the mage in question. For a mage to willingly give itself to a demon, he would have to lose all hope and believe that the demon is the only way out. This is far more likely in a system that forces you into an isolated society with a constant threat of death hanging over you than one that lets you be free.

 

 

 

We don't know anything about Rivain, other than that they purposefully creates Abominations, and they consider the destruction they bring as natural disasters. So instead of blaming the amge in question for a moronic practice, they just shrug and chalk it up to nature. Needless to say, Rivain DOES have problems with Abominations, for such an attitude towards to even develop.

 

A demon can possess a mage in two ways, forceful or agreed upon. Forceful seems to be the most common. But for the amge to agree to a possession, does not require him to be desperate. It probably often is the case, but it is not a requirement. All the mage had to think, was that he would stand to gain something from it. For instance all the Seers in Rivain agree to the possession, because they believe they stand to gain something from it.

 

And what is this bullshit about cosntant threat of death hanging over mages? You understand that Templars can't just killed mages out of hand, yes? You understand that there are rules and laws in place to PROTECT the mages, yes?

 

At least two of those examples went on to journey with the Grey Wardens, which are sort of an exception to a good many rules. If the templars were really that loose in letting people go as long as you smile and nod, there wouldn't be nearly as much discontent as there was. It certainly wouldn't have led to a full-blown war. 

Grey Wardens are NOT Templars, nor are they substitues for Templars. And both Innes and Wynne were allowed to travel without ANY supervision, shooting large nice holes in your claim that mages are confined to the towers for all of time, or at least must have Templar supervision.

[Ryriena]

Which has what to do with the Qunari Wars?

He said Kirkwall and I thought he ment da2 so sue me.

[Mr.House]

Ok then I would say that's the chantry refused them that option to help then?

*sigh*

[Ryriena]

*sigh*

From the reading material, it doesn't say much about that regards.

[raging_monkey]

From the reading material, it doesn't say much about that regards.

its a grey area

[Ryriena]

I also had forgotten they had taken Kirkwall first before the marches had been sent. I must admit I has verily poor memory as I read a lot of the codex a five months ago.

[pengwin21]

You picked out nobles family members that are given that option because of their nobility. I doubt commoners such as the elf mage warden or Jowan gets to see their parents she does not even remember her own parents in some dialog. My Amell is sent by her parents, so getting too see them was not a option. Anders, is taken away from his crying mother and was never allowed to see her again. All he has of her is, a pillow that he had given to Varric as a gift. But I headcannoned he gave it to my Hawke mage, after he refused it.

 

You doubt, but you don't actually know. Perhaps Jowan's parents had no interest in seeing him again or the distance was too far for them to reasonably travel etc and the same could have been the case for Anders. Even Gamlen is allowed to visit the Circle and he's hardly a nobleman.

[Ryriena]

its a grey area

I kind of figured that, because they do have that right according to Gregior and the codex.

[Ryriena]

You doubt, but you don't actually know. Perhaps Jowan's parents had no interest in seeing him again or the distance was too far for them to reasonably travel etc and the same could have been the case for Anders. Even Gamlen is allowed to visit the Circle and he's hardly a nobleman.

But also Gamlen was related to Hawke, so I would consider that a factor as to, why he is allowed to visit. Your doing a lot of Headcanon reasoning for, why their not coming to visit.

[raging_monkey]

I kind of figured that, because they do have that right according to Gregior and the codex.

its legality issue at times

[TheKomandorShepard]

If the noble gets greedy and decides he wants more land, they can easily cause more death and destruction than mages. The history of Thedas is filled with greedy nobles starting wars and killing uncountable people. By the logic of "they're a potential danger, so lock 'em up" they should all be long locked up by now.
 

You'd be arrested for breaking the law that you can't own a machine gun. But you wouldn't be arrested for your kitchen full of knives, which can make you a danger for everyone around you as well.

People in our world are generally arrested for the crimes they commit. You committed a crime when you illegally bought a machine gun, and were arrested for that crime. Not for being a potential danger. But if I were to treat you like a criminal your whole life for having a kitchen full of knives, nobody would look up up in surprise when you finally decided to stab me with those knives.

It's very common to see people who are treated as punks start to act like punks, and people who are treated as criminals to start act like criminals. Treating mages like dangerous psychopaths ready to kill someone at a moment's notice? That's a self fulfilling prophecy practically begging mages to act as such.
 

Indeed. I will have to concede that. However, they still remain a much safer place for both sides, given that the abomination incidents are never bad enough for the people of Rivain to cry out for mage blood, or bad enough for the Chantry to pick up on the news.

So, yeah. Rivain is still a better system. The Chantry has shown that their system doesn't work. 19 annulments don't speak in favour of the Chantry's circle system working. Meanwhile the people of Rivain seem to get along with their mages just fine, all without having to imprison them in towers under death threats.
 

I'm mostly just confused why you'd still support the Chantry's system when Rivain shows that there are working alternatives that treat the mage side far better.

Pretty much im sure at least in ferelden only who pulled that was howe and only get away with it because loghain plan otherwise he would get consequences besides as i said nobles represent society and if forced to follow it is laws in order to not being destroyed by other nobles if that is in case nation is corrupted and corruption is something you need to deal with.So no Hitler isn't same as doomsday.

 

And mages are arested also for breaking law being outside circle why for same reasons both are very dangerous and as i said you can kill even with pencil but level of threat is completely different peoples rly shouldn't use that simplistic logic that if we use such security measures for nuclear bombs we should use it for knives or vice versa because both can kill it is ridiculous.

 

You don't think about law you follow don't you? now think why having machine gun will make you cops arrest you why there is such law? Simple because machine guns are dangerous that is why they are illegal for safety measures.Mages are danger as well on huge level so see argument above so please don't compare it to normal humans or knife. 

 

It is completely untrue being nice for someone doesn't mean individual will be nice otherwise utopia would be possible and if someone treats you as criminal don't mean you will be criminal unless you are forced to be one circle don't force that on mages.

 

Not rly not for mages not for non-mages.as i said they see them as natural disasters.

 

Again not rly as proved mages were turning there willingly into abomnations because they saw that as tradition good luck with that route what is already worse than chantry where they at least have some control over them.

 

I don't support chantry system i support my own system but from both bads i prefer incompetent police than lack of police.

 

 

Justice could do that to, just saying.

 

Yeah, I doubt most mages would be able to find those kind artifacts, the only reason the Qunari managed to do it seems to be because he got the location from the keeper of that dalish group or else I doubt he would have been able to find it in the first place. There are many ways to die, in the lands of Thedas you still have more of chance to die at the hands of a sword then a mage attack with the exception of Tevinter.

 

In a mage life opportunists are rare even in Tevinter and if he had done at another time the Templars would have gotten reinforcements they needed to annulled the circle the only reason they didn't in DA:O was because of the blight and civil war.

 

Both things can kill you, not more else to say then a nuclear bomb can kill faster and more painfully then a knife. As for mages most doesn't cause the same numbers of deaths as a nuclear bomb can.

 

And now I have had my fill of pointless discussion with you. Time to do something else.

Justice wasn't mage he was spirit and i don't have to say how that went with justice?

 

And yet he found it and what if another mage found something different as i said life if sull of opportunities all those mages and there is a lot of them had one or more and went poorly.And you can destroy world with sword...

 

Good luck with that as i said if you want seek for excues you will find 10000 of them and yes mages have a lot opportunities we saw a lot of them and had to deal with them.

 

Oh god it is indeed pointless discussion if you compare nuclear bomb first think why you can have knife and why you can't have nuclear bomb maybe you will see difference. Most is good word in that matter...

[Ieldra]

The problem is that this fundamentally favors those who prefer the status quo, because it's easier to write when considering save imports. It's a much less equal proposition than it seems.

Quite true. What we've learned from ME is that big decisions tend to matter less in subsequent games because it's hard to have several different starting points for the next game.

 

But there isn't necessarily a status quo bias, just a strong bias towards one large-scale outcome rather than several. If the writers decide they want a big shakeup of the world at the end of one game, that's not really that hard to write, much easier than a multi-forked outcome and not so much more difficult than to continue the status quo. Unfortunately, any single large-scale outcome will mean some people are going to be unhappy. I consider it most likely that the unhappy ones will be the extremists. We will not see the pre-war status quo restored, but we will also not see the Chantry destroyed or completely removed from power. It is also possible the Inquisition will carve out its own territory and we have a choice about the policies enacted therein, and the subsequent games never go there again so that the differences are restricted to the Codex and the occasional reference in a conversation, while all other places get a predetermined middle-of-the-road outcome with minor differences resulting from our decisions.

[Br3admax]

But also Gamlen was related to Hawke, so I would consider that a factor as to, why he is allowed to visit. Your doing a lot of Headcanon reasoning for, why their not coming to visit.

Hawke isn't a nobleman until Act III. Also someone ignored Wayward Son.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Hawke isn't a nobleman until Act III. Also someone ignored Wayward Son.

Hawke was noble in act 2 in act 3 he was champion.

[Br3admax]

False. They refused to take the Amell name. Being rich doesn't make you a noble.

[Mr.House]

Hawke was noble in act 2 in act 3 he was champion.

Hawkes political pull was very weak in act 2.

[pengwin21]

Good point about Feynriel- he and Arianni are definitely not nobles.

[dragonflight288]

False. They refused to take the Amell name. Being rich doesn't make you a noble.

 

Hawke became the head of the Amell house, Scion of the Amells as Cullen calls him. 

 

He is a direct descendant, so he was in charge of the Amells, even though he remained a Hawke. 

 

He was very much a noble in Act 2 and 3. In Act 3, he was also a Champion, but Hawke was a noble. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

False. They refused to take the Amell name. Being rich doesn't make you a noble.

Rly i thought s/he was noble didn't hawke had own family crest or something in second act?

[TTTX]

Hawkes political pull was very weak in act 2.

Hawke political pull was in general very weak in DA2, Hawke didn't seem to use what power s/he had at her/his disposal, which I found odd especially by act 3 when things was getting really crazy even for Kirkwall.

 

Hawke was a great deliver boy through all three acts though

[raging_monkey]

Hawke political pull was in general very weak in DA2, Hawke didn't seem to use what power s/he had at her/his disposal, which I found odd especially by act 3 when things was getting really crazy even for Kirkwall. Hawke was a great deliver boy through all three acts though

well just cause you have power doesnt mean you should exercise willy-nilly. If hawke to a side early on things wouldve gotten worse faster

[Br3admax]

Hawke became the head of the Amell house, Scion of the Amells as Cullen calls him. 

 

He is a direct descendant, so he was in charge of the Amells, even though he remained a Hawke. 

 

He was very much a noble in Act 2 and 3. In Act 3, he was also a Champion, but Hawke was a noble. 

 

Rly i thought s/he was noble didn't hawke had own family crest or something in second act?

Sebastian even talks about how you could have been a noble if you took the Amell name. That obviously means you aren't one. But you know, your opinions can go against statements in game. Seems to be pretty popular on BSN. Act III is the only time Hawke has a title, but it's not an inheritable one either way, so his/her nobility would end again after their death regardless. 

[TTTX]

well just cause you have power doesnt mean you should exercise willy-nilly. If hawke to a side early on things wouldve gotten worse faster

true, but by the time act 3 started the time for "not using your power" had long since gone for obvious reasons.

 

 

Sebastian even talks about how you could have been a noble if you took the Amell name. That obviously means you aren't one. But you know, your opinions can go against statements in game. Seems to be pretty popular on BSN. 

Hawke is pretty much nobel, s/he get invited to parties and everything, unfortunately that's something we never see that's all something that happens off screen.

[Br3admax]

Hawke is pretty much nobel, s/he get invited to parties and everything, unfortunately that's something we never see that's all something that happens off screen.

That was only in Act III, the only thing that suggest Hawke is remotely noble beforehand is that nobles were interested in marrying their children to them, and that was only because Leandra actually became an Amell again. I'm thinking that she wanted to eventually convince Hawke to as well. We don't get a choice in the matter, however. 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Sebastian even talks about how you could have been a noble if you took the Amell name. That obviously means you aren't one. But you know, your opinions can go against statements in game. Seems to be pretty popular on BSN. Act III is the only time Hawke has a title, but it's not an inheritable one either way, so his/her nobility would end again after their death regardless. 

I checked conversations with seb in act 2 and 3 i couldn't find it can you say in what act/moment that was and if you were rival or friend with him?It is not that im saying that you are wrong becuase im not sure now just trying to check it.