881 réponses à ce sujet

[Br3admax]

so fans equate pro mages with a horrible american serial killer? Hope im wrong but it seem rude/childish? Odd

No one has ever said that pro mages are like Ramsay. 

[Steelcan]

That man's name is Ramsay Bolton. Not Ramsey Snow. The point.

. He will always be a Snow, no matter what some fancy documents say

[Br3admax]

The consequences show that this attempt was ill-advised, yes. But the message I would send is "Be careful and don't overestimate your capabilities", not "Never do this". Also, never trust your gods. They act like any superpower and never have your best interests in mind, only theirs.

lol. Don't tell me to never light myself on fire. Tell me to be careful when I do it. 

[Hellion Rex]

The Chant doesn't even *mention* the blood sacrifice. It ignores what was really evil in this thing, and turns into evil what would be good if not for the methods. As for the backfiring, if the message was "Be careful" I would support it. But the message is "There are things fundamentally not your domain, and you should not go there". I most emphatically do not believe that.  

I honestly think it depends on your own personal interpretation of the Chant. I read that tale as being a cautionary story to mages of the possible dangers of magic, especially blood magic. I don't really read in the same way you seem to be taking it.

[Dean_the_Young]

The Chant doesn't even *mention* the blood sacrifice. It ignores what was really evil in this thing, and turns into evil what would be good if not for the methods. As for the backfiring, if the message was "Be careful" I would support it. But the message is "There are things fundamentally not your domain, and you should not go there". I most emphatically do not believe that.  

 

Child molestation?

[Br3admax]

. He will always be a Snow, no matter what some fancy documents say

What's in a name? Power. Sure he had plenty before, but the Bolton name has its perks. 

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

The consequences show that this attempt was ill-advised, yes. But the message I would send is "Be careful and don't overestimate your capabilities", not "Never do this". Also, never trust your gods. They act like any superpower and never have your best interests in mind, only theirs.

 

I'd still like to see your reasoning for WHY attempting to usurp a diety is a Virtuous thing.

 

Especially in a setting where gods and mortals are VERY far apart. It's not like D&D where a mortal can get powerful enough to ascend on their own.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Child molestation?

In the name of SCIENCE!

[Cainhurst Crow]

Because usurping a diety is the right thing to do because...Progress?

 

But even then, assuming progress=factual event or progress=inherently good, what makes usurping a deity progress?

 

The consequences show that this attempt was ill-advised, yes. But the message I would send is "Be careful and don't overestimate your capabilities", not "Never do this". Also, never trust your gods. They act like any superpower and never have your best interests in mind, only theirs.

 

How do you know this? Again, why do you act like you have omnipotence about how gods act? How is usurping them either good or progress?

[raging_monkey]

No one has ever said that pro mages are like Ramsay.

sigh maker save me but never seen GOT so i maybe missing context blast

[Ieldra]

Why exactly would it have been good? You keep saying it is, without giving a reason why.

Not good in a moral sense, but virtuous by the standards of virtue ethics. I see as fundamentally desirable and admirable the drive of human beings to explore beyond their domain to gain more knowledge and control of their own fate - which is what the magisters were attempting, regardless of the fact that their motivations were as far from "pure" as we can imagine. Stealing fire from the gods, so to speak. In a fantasy setting, that can be made literal. It rarely is. The mainstream stories at least alway favor Zeus these days, never Prometheus. Obey your father god and never try to grow up and make your own decisions. Yeah right....

 

Yes, in a setting with existing gods, I would be a misotheist. Recall the myths about the Protheans in ME1? And then how it was revealed how they really were in ME3? Epic. That's what I think about gods in general. They tend to have an undeservedly good reputation.

 

BTW, I'm not surprised that many others don't necessarily see the same thing in this story. Applicability, after all, lies partly in the mind of the reader/player/viewer. But I have met people here who see it the same way.

[Dean_the_Young]

In the name of SCIENCE!

 

Call me a Luddite, but I firmly believe that child orifices are not your domain and you should not go there.

[Inprea]

Yes because mortals attempting to usurp a deity always ends in a happy fashion in fantasy settings.

 

"Bro maybe we shouldn't try to usurp this god."

 

"Nah man PROGRESS DEMANDS IT!"

 

"But what if it doesn't work out?"

 

"PROGRESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

 

If we're talking story mechanics the same could be said about the circle system. Typically taking a group of powerful individuals, locking them away and only letting them out when you want them doesn't work out well at all.

[TheJediSaint]

sigh maker save me but never seen GOT so i maybe missing context blast.

Ramsay Snow's a very, very bad person.  

[EmperorSahlertz]

Call me a Luddite, but I firmly believe that child orifices are not your domain and you should not go there.

Don't tell me what to do, god!

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

If we're talking story mechanics the same could be said about the circle system. Typically taking a group of powerful individuals, locking them away and only letting them out when you want them doesn't work out well at all.

 

It does when the main historical alternative is Tevinter.

[Steelcan]

Call me a Luddite, but I firmly believe that child orifices are not your domain and you should not go there.

. Remember BSN, if you don't pick Synthesis you are a Luddite who gets off on genocide

[raging_monkey]

Why are there post on children here kinda odd

[TheKomandorShepard]

They were mages and did bad things therefore mages do bad things. Your logic would make every English teacher I've had since the 8th grade vomit. 

I said every major problem. One blood mage in a city of them is not a major problem. Hawke found the statue. Hawke helped Patrice. Hawke agitated the qunari. Hawke allowed unrest between the mages and the Templars. Hawke allowed Anders to live. Hawke didn't warn the Grand Cleric. Hawke almost started a war with Orlais. Hawke let one of the original and most powerful darkspawn loose. Hawke let the guy who killed their mother walk away when they could have stopped him when they first saw him 3 years earlier. The list goes on and on. 

Yes they were mages so yes they were mages who did "bad" things so well...

 

Well in that case petrice would do her thing with or without hawke of course he could stop her but it is another matter , not killing anders was dumb but that didn't made him responsible.And hawke can warn grand cleric she ignores that.but yes many other sticks.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Don't tell me what to do, god!

 

Whatever god! I'll start my own universe and it'll be so much better than yours!

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

. Remember BSN, if you don't pick Synthesis you are a Luddite who gets off on genocide

 

#RememberWulfie #PoorJoker

[EmperorSahlertz]

. Remember BSN, if you don't pick Synthesis you are a Luddite who gets off on genocide

Considering how much I LOVE Mass Effect, I am happy I got out of that cesspit of a subforum all the way back during ME1...

[Cainhurst Crow]

Not good in a moral sense, but virtuous by the standards of virtue ethics. I see as fundamentally desirable and admirable the drive of human beings to explore beyond their domain to gain more knowledge and control of their own fate. Stealing fire from the gods, so to speak. In a fantasy setting, that can be made literal. It rarely is. The mainstream stories at least alway favor Zeus these days, never Prometheus. Obey your father god and never try to grow up and make your own decisions. Yeah right....

 

But what evidence do you present that the maker controls humanities fate and decisions to the point it must be usurped? From what I've seen, the maker has been pretty much completely hands off when it comes to free will and self determination. He doesn't smite people, or make commandments, or has a wrath to speak of that can be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

Assuming the maker is real, it seems like trying to usurp him is a unprovoked act of aggression more then some virtuous excercise of revolution. Like if Saudi Arabia decided to invade Ireland cause they need to self determinate dammit.

[Dean_the_Young]

If we're talking story mechanics the same could be said about the circle system. Typically taking a group of powerful individuals, locking them away and only letting them out when you want them doesn't work out well at all.

 

Alternatively, they frequently work out well enough for most of the duration. It's the Evil Empire theory of storycraft: if the Evil Empire exists, it must have existed for some time and long enough that people reasonably assume it will continue to exist for some time in the future, or else where is the drama in overcoming it?

[Br3admax]

Yes they were mages so yes they were mages who did "bad" things so well...

That fallacy should be named after you, by this point. 

 

 

Well in that case petrice would do her thing with or without hawke of course he could stop her but it is another matter , 

S/he wouldn't and did. Patrice was stopped by the Grand Cleric 

 

 

not killing anders was dumb but that didn't made him responsible.

It does. S/e let a known abomination wonder the streets for 7 years. And in a lot of cases aided him in making the bomb. 

 

 

And hawke can warn grand cleric she ignores that.but yes many other sticks.

Not before they knew it was a bomb. Not to my recollection.