881 réponses à ce sujet

[TTTX]

Simple because magic very quickly destroys veil as we were showed in various products so no magic was in use if simple non-mages could cause as i said most of thedas would be in demons hands because of wars between nations or blights...

 

Oh god you are ignoring what i have said and make up stuff finn never enhanced your weapon it was justice and that was in daa not witch hunt and again avernus fixed veil tear only by removing summoning circles he placed what was cause of that.

 

Dude i don't even how talk to you... yes it was greed and an emotions something that every human have so good luck with that excuse...

 

It took magic and yes normal mage wait blood mage can do it all it took was lyrium and blood magic so yes normal mage can do that not to mention 1000 ways for mage to cause disaster like for example 1 mage trying summon army of demons to destroy world it didn't cost him much effort and almost did it.And so what zathrian did what he did for his own reasons and there can be 1000 reasons for mage to create disaster for zathrian it was love , for magisters it was power hunger , for quentin it was love , for uldred it was power hunger and we can go and go for reasons.And yes he freed him after centuries and only if you you forced him.

 

Blood magic yes, normal magic not so much. Yeah magic can be a problem, but that's the world of Thedas this is not our world, the fade will always be there and so will the demons and such that's not going to go away or disappear, so you need magic to help deal with situations that requires magic, sometimes a mage becomes an abomination or power hungry, but over all it's a pretty low number, but that's the price Thedas have to pay in order to have the means live in the world they live in.

 

You can't "kill" a fade tear just by swinging your sword at it, so Finn would have to enchant your weapons in order for us to close them and yes, but magic still fixed the problem which was caused by rebellion which in turn was caused by a made king who killed a lot more people then most mages do.

 

A lot blood magic is required for getting physical into the veil is very hard even more so if the veil is strong, even the Ing was the only one who survived among thousands dead so do the math, magisters used a lot of slaves and magic to get into the Veil which is more then what most mages have access to. You are talking about Uldred, no he didn't try to destroy the world, he wanted to free the circle in Fereldren which tried one way through deception when that didn't work he and his follows made a surprise attack catching everyone off guard and it backfired and made him into an abomination (which means he was Uldred no more) and it was the pride demon who made the army and wanting to conquer the world and rule.

 

Magic can cause problems so can a lot things in Thedas, but that's the world of Thedas not ours there is no universal ideal solution to deal situation to deal with even if mages was never born in Thedas, magical problems would still happened one way or the other.

[Xilizhra]

Why don't we put out fires with gasoline and alcohol?

Ah, right, because it was a fundamentally unworkable idea to send a mage into the Fade to save another mage from possession--wait.

[Steelcan]

While in the Fade, in the presence of a demon, or so on. 

 

And if a demon breaks free of the Fade, they often possess the very first thing they come in contact with, trees, animals, dead corpses, regular people. 

 

Mages are not ticking time bombs that will inevitably turn into an abomination, whether they will it or not. They are people, while in greater risk of it, are in need of training. Once trained, they pose barely more of a risk than the armed knight patrolling the road. Well armed and highly dangerous, but not necessarily aggressive, or even inclined to violence.

But the risk is always there, and exponentially higher than for demons possessing mundanes

[Br3admax]

If that's necessary, have another, more experienced mage on hand who can fight the demon off so that the apprentice won't get possessed and then killed.

How would they do that, exactly? And do you expect them to do that indefinitely?

[Steelcan]

Ah, right, because it was a fundamentally unworkable idea to send a mage into the Fade to save another mage from possession--wait.

It was a stupid idea, what would happen if it went wrong?  Or if the mage sent in makes a deal with a demon condemning another to possession-wait

[Xilizhra]

How would they do that, exactly? And do you expect them to do that indefinitely?

The same lyrium ritual as was used to bring the apprentice into the Fade, and yes, if necessary. The Circle is supposed to be protecting mages, after all.

[Steelcan]

The same lyrium ritual as was used to bring the apprentice into the Fade, and yes, if necessary. The Circle is supposed to be protecting mages, after all.

The Circle is also emant to protect mundanes from mages, it is not an institution to be used as the mages see fit, no matter what they perceive as injustices

[Xilizhra]

It was a stupid idea, what would happen if it went wrong?  Or if the mage sent in makes a deal with a demon condemning another to possession-wait

It couldn't have gone that wrong, the demon was already possessing someone else. And if trust is more a concern for you than it is for the Circle when they sent you in there, use multiple mages for the job.

[EmperorSahlertz]

While in the Fade, in the presence of a demon, or so on. 

 

And if a demon breaks free of the Fade, they often possess the very first thing they come in contact with, trees, animals, dead corpses, regular people. 

 

Mages are not ticking time bombs that will inevitably turn into an abomination, whether they will it or not. They are people, while in greater risk of it, are in need of training. Once trained, they pose barely more of a risk than the armed knight patrolling the road. Well armed and highly dangerous, but not necessarily aggressive, or even inclined to violence. 

Time-bomb would be an inaccurate simily yes. Time bombs are always gonna go off, once the clock reaches zero. The majority of mages go their entire life without ever going off, ergo they aren't time bombs. That does not mean they didn't pose a threat while alive though.

[Steelcan]

It couldn't have gone that wrong, the demon was already possessing someone else. And if trust is more a concern for you than it is for the Circle when they sent you in there, use multiple mages for the job.

It can always go more wrong when demons are involved

 

Now we are getting to levels of impractical that are almost laughable

[Br3admax]

The same lyrium ritual as was used to bring the apprentice into the Fade, and yes, if necessary. The Circle is supposed to be protecting mages, after all.

That only worked because Connor was a special case, and even the he slaughter hundreds before anything could be done. Not the most sound of plans.

[EmperorSahlertz]

It couldn't have gone that wrong, the demon was already possessing someone else. And if trust is more a concern for you than it is for the Circle when they sent you in there, use multiple mages for the job.

Uhm... It could EASILY have gone wrong. The demon could ahve summoned more of its kind, and overpowered the mage sent in. Then the waking world would have to contend with TWO Abominations.

[TheJediSaint]

Reversing Connor's possession required either a Pile of Lyrium and a First Enchanter, or a human sacrifice.  I don't think there's enough Lyrium or Isolde's around make that a practical solution for every case of possession.

[Xilizhra]

Uhm... It could EASILY have gone wrong. The demon could ahve summoned more of its kind, and overpowered the mage sent in. Then the waking world would have to contend with TWO Abominations.

And all the mages involved have proven that they can resist that already.

 

At any rate. I might be departing this discussion because I see little point in discussing Chantry policy when the Chantry no longer controls the Circle, unless we're trying to hammer out some sort of compromise deal.

[Steelcan]

And all the mages involved have proven that they can resist that already.

 

At any rate. I might be departing this discussion because I see little point in discussing Chantry policy when the Chantry no longer controls the Circle, unless we're trying to hammer out some sort of compromise deal.

they don't control the Circles currently, once this rebellion is put down and a competent Divine takes over things will be different

[Br3admax]

And all the mages involved have proven that they can resist that already.

At any rate. I might be departing this discussion because I see little point in discussing Chantry policy when the Chantry no longer controls the Circle, unless we're trying to hammer out some sort of compromise deal.

Sure. Give up Fiona and Adrian, and go back to the Circles.

[EmperorSahlertz]

And all the mages involved have proven that they can resist that already.

 

At any rate. I might be departing this discussion because I see little point in discussing Chantry policy when the Chantry no longer controls the Circle, unless we're trying to hammer out some sort of compromise deal.

Just because you go through your Harrowing does NOT mean you are immune. The Harrowing just shows that the mage is at least semi-competent, and won't pose as great a risk as others, merely by existing.

[Steelcan]

Sure. Give up Fiona and Adrian, and go back to the Circles.

but what do we do with her afterwards, tranquil, hand her over to the Qunari, introduce her to Ramsay Snow, decisions....

[lordsaren101]

Once this rebellion is put down? Hah. Mages will win. It stopped being a rebellion when you chantry scum lost control of both the Templars and the Circles. When mages win, we will assume our proper place at the head of the table. Perhaps we will round up everyone that thinks it was ok to cage us and lock you in circles...sounds fair to me.

[Ryriena]

Mmm right.

And you credit the entire outcome of a war that every army in Thedas fighting them under Chantry direction solely to the minority of forces and not the thousands upon thousands that made up their forces.

Magic played a part in the defeat of the Qunari but no more so then say the exalted Marches.

A big part in the defeat as to the codex the Qunari where winning until the chantry allowed mages to fight in the war. So I blame the chantry for being scared little boys that would have let the Qunari win until they had not many men. They only let mages fight in the war until they where loosing.

[raging_monkey]

Wow emotions are high *Sprays fire extingusher in controlled bursts* lets all be civil

[TheJediSaint]

but what do we do with her afterwards, tranquil, hand her over to the Qunari, introduce her to Ramsay Snow, decisions....

I would think of better uses of magic than opening a portal to Westeros.

[MisterJB]

The Chantry was founded in Orlais, by an Orlesian emperor and led by an Orlesian Divine.

Orlais is as deep in the Chantry's blood as you can get. We'd have to rebuild the Chantry from the ground up to get it out of its system.

Hopefully our titel as Herald of Andraste will mean we get to do so in Inquisition.

Grand Clerics are more likely to be interested in the wellfare of their own countries before any Orlesian interests; the Divine will, of course, have her influence and since her neighbor is the Emperor, she's not likely to speak against him, but this influence is not unlimited.

Elthina proved a Grand Cleric can just say "no" to the Divine. Altough this is bound to have consequences depending on which Grand Cleric tried to do that. I, for one, can't see the Divine eager to strain relation with the single, largest Templar army in the East.

 

 

Tevinter is filled with power-hungry douchebags, news at 11.

In my opinion, mages don't need to be controlled, just guided. Trying to control mages is what got us into the mess that is Inquisition in the first place.

In fact, the Chant of Light itself doesn't support the Circle system either.

"Magic exists to serve man, and never to rule over him.
Foul and corrupt are they
Who have taken His gift
And turned it against His children.
They shall be named Maleficar, accursed ones.
They shall find no rest in this world
Or beyond."

All the chant itself says is "Don't be a douchebag, use your magic to help people rather than lord it over them." It says nothing about mages needing to be controlled. But as always with religious texts, a good portion has chosen to interpret things differently. Fear and paranoia towards mages thanks to decades of Tevinter mage rule then did the rest.

 

The Chant is a lovely moral guide but it lacks practical application. That was left to the Andrasteans that came after.

It is easy to claim non-maleficarum mages are also children of the Maker but brotherhood is dificult to mantain if the mages are gobbling up every inch of power over society they can.

The Chant can try to teach mages to use their powers for the good of mankind but who ensures they actually do it?

Their own moral or the armed men who are part of the non-mage group and thus have a vested interest in seeing it protected from mages, a different social group?

I'm going with option B, myself.
 

[Br3admax]

but what do we do with her afterwards, tranquil, hand her over to the Qunari, introduce her to Ramsay Snow, decisions....

Nothing says we can't do all three. But not before they sew her mouth shut.

[Xilizhra]

they don't control the Circles currently, once this rebellion is put down and a competent Divine takes over things will be different

Well, I hope you don't have such an opportunity, as it'd be a pain to write around later.

 

 

Sure. Give up Fiona and Adrian, and go back to the Circles.

I said "compromise," not "blatant defeat."