79 réponses à ce sujet

[PurpGuy1]

Games used to be for smart people

 

Now that the internet has broadened the playerbase, that paradigm must change

 

If you don't naturally get better by playing, you will now artificially "get better" by playing.  It's like No Child Left Behind, but for gamers instead of schoolchildren.

 

(For the record, it doesn't produce smarter schoolchildren, it just pushes them forward through the system whether they learned anything or not.  So apply that to ingame, 6/6/6/6/6 players can still suck because they are still dumb)

 

The internet itself is the greatest social experiment of all time.  Now we are forced to confront face to face the stupidity of the common man.  Global genocide doesn't seem like such a bad idea anymore.

 

Welcome to Erf.

 

OT:  I play a lot so this is fine with me.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

Prepare yourself for the arrival....

[cato potato]

This is a great way to force players into trying different builds instead of sticking to a permanent one dimensional build forever like the the promotion haters do.

 

Yes, of course. Everyone who hated the promotion system in ME3MP only ever used a single build for each character and never changed it.

 

 

You really like to find ways to dislike whole groups of people, don't you?

[MGW7]

It's not like in mp 6/6/6/6/6 builds are all that great, only a few select kits get any advantage with those extra skill points compared to a 6/6/6/4/4 build anyways, a little more health, or some other small boost to something nobody is going to actually notice anyways, you can't tell who has a glitched 6/6/6/6/6 build anyways

[waltervolpatto]

It's not like in mp 6/6/6/6/6 builds are all that great, only a few select kits get any advantage with those extra skill points compared to a 6/6/6/4/4 build anyways, a little more health, or some other small boost to something nobody is going to actually notice anyways, you can't tell who has a glitched 6/6/6/6/6 build anyways

What? my 66660 volus will rock the word with that extra, something something, shield and health!!!

[cato potato]

It's not like in mp 6/6/6/6/6 builds are all that great, only a few select kits get any advantage with those extra skill points compared to a 6/6/6/4/4 build anyways, a little more health, or some other small boost to something nobody is going to actually notice anyways, you can't tell who has a glitched 6/6/6/6/6 build anyways

 

The number of skill points you can obtain is limited in order to encourage diversity of builds. Imagine if all 6 builds were the norm -

 

Poster 1: 'The best build for the Krogan Sentinel is 6/6/6/6/6 with evo A at rank 4 of Incinerate.'

Poster 2: 'Oh my god, what a noob. Everyone knows the best build is 6/6/6/6/6 with evo B at rank 4 of Incinerate.'

[Cyonan]

No, the choice is yours, not my way.  It's a game design dynamic.  If DAMP is like this game once players get good they can probably never bother to promote and still kick butt. 

 

Not sure why BioWare made this choice, perhaps to keep people at lower levels thus not getting as many cash rewards and thus not maxing manifest as quick?  Sooner or later we will find out why they did it.

 

I shouldn't have to use personal skill to overcome not wanting to hit the reset button on my character every 4-5 games, though.

 

It's punishing people who don't want to promote. It's one thing when it's character builds or gear choice or something like that, but promoting was supposed to be an entirely optional thing for people who like doing it.

 

In my opinion they should let people grind the bonus points out by either promoting or earning additional XP while at max level.

[Sailears]

Prepare yourself for the arrival....

 

Stardusk's alive!   /Voltan

 

 

Anyway on topic - hmm, not sure what to make of this.

 

I'm not a fan of any nonsensical grinding and prefer gameplay to be skill based and improvements to player skill be down to the player themselves gaining more knowledge/experience, not some in game stat boost that requires excessive grind to "max out".

 

There's enough grind with the store and URs as it is - while it's good to keep players hooked into playing the game, I believe max stats should be easy to achieve for all players and endgame rewards be purely cosmetic - unlocking new armour skins or equipment skins, and so on.

 

GW2 failed at this because of stupid decisions with things like ascended gear, otherwise I would use that as an example.
 

[capn233]

It's not like in mp 6/6/6/6/6 builds are all that great, only a few select kits get any advantage with those extra skill points compared to a 6/6/6/4/4 build anyways, a little more health, or some other small boost to something nobody is going to actually notice anyways, you can't tell who has a glitched 6/6/6/6/6 build anyways

 

It is not debatable that 66666 is more powerful than builds with the correct number of skill points for every single character.  The only thing that can be argued is the degree of improvement, but not surprisingly the characters with more benefit are probably the more powerful ones to begin with.  There are maybe some quirky characters who derive very little benefit, but there aren't as few as a certain faction of people want everyone to believe.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

Stardusk's alive!   /Voltan

 

 

Anyway on topic - hmm, not sure what to make of this.

 

I'm not a fan of any nonsensical grinding and prefer gameplay to be skill based and improvements to player skill be down to the player themselves gaining more knowledge/experience, not some in game stat boost that requires excessive grind to "max out".

 

There's enough grind with the store and URs as it is - while it's good to keep players hooked into playing the game, I believe max stats should be easy to achieve for all players and endgame rewards be purely cosmetic - unlocking new armour skins or equipment skins, and so on.

 

GW2 failed at this because of stupid decisions with things like ascended gear, otherwise I would use that as an example.
 

Still alive, barely. Prepare yourself for the most expansive guides to DAI MP btw...

[akots1]

Repetition will depend on learning curve and options for the builds as well as size of manifest. If manifest is smaller and there are only 3 character types instead of 6, and if the game requires 300-400 hours to understand the features, then 50 promotions is quite realistic number IMO. But it is all just speculations.  I do have a good trust in Bioware since first release of BG. It's been mostly good games since then, so we'll see how it goes.

[crashsuit]

Personally I'm gonna wait til I play ME4MP before I squat down and take a dump on it.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

Regardless of what few details we know, we should be cautious in making too many assumptions about the nature of DAI MP; all of what is being discussed is speculative. We will need to wait for it to come out to get an accurate picture. 

[Catastrophy]

Aww, I liked boasting about me taking no fitness builds in order to pick the full story of combat drone.

[Fortack]

Regardless of what few details we know, we should be cautious in making too many assumptions about the nature of DAI MP; all of what is being discussed is speculative. We will need to wait for it to come out to get an accurate picture.

 
You don't have to wait for anything to know that p(l)ay2win is moronic. It isn't related to anything that has even the tiniest gameplay relevance - it's nothing but added tedium, causes balance & matchmaking issues, harms competitiveness, is boring, pointless, masochistic, annoying and enforced whether anyone likes it or not.
 
In short, it's all bad.
 

Still alive, barely. Prepare yourself for the most expansive guides to DAI MP btw...

This "awesome" promoting crap is also going to hurt your ability to make guides: "Hey guys, this build is amazing! You only have promote 368 times to unlock all the required skillpoints!" Guides that depend on items which are unavailable to the majority of players aren't very helpful. Just saying.

 

Anyway, it's good to see you're still around SD!

[Barrogh]

For whatever it's worth, I think promotion points should be an additional currency which would allow you to purchase non random equipment.  Make it sufficiently weak that people won't run off to buy the flavor-of-the-day UR and max it out in 1 day of gameplay, but sufficiently potent that if you have that unlucky character/weapon you can't get due to shitty luck, you can always purchase it using the promotion points.  That was its neither overpowered nor useless.

I think it will be covered by crafting, at least partially.

 

This is awesome, even more reason to discriminate agaist other players for no reason. 

 

"What, you've only promoted 37 times? This is a 60 promotions lobby noob" (exaggerations abound)

 

We all know by now that  pure character stats don't have much to do with how well a good player does in a match. With so many variables from kits, load outs, builds and skill level all things end up being pretty equal. Where being outscored by a lower level player isn't all that unsual. But some people judge insignificant things like your N7 rank now and it's doesn't reflect anything. So how much judging is going to be happeing now? Hell the community is already divided on this lol. Doesn't seem very smart for a "co-op" game.

Except this time around, there will be a reason. We don't know how powerful those promotions will be, but it's entirely possible that low promotion characters will be looked down upon similarly to how people who don't/can't equip powerup consumables are in ME3MP.

 

 

Not sure why BioWare made this choice, perhaps to keep people at lower levels thus not getting as many cash rewards and thus not maxing manifest as quick?

Kek.

Ehm... Sorry, couldn't contain the lel.

 

 

What? my 66660 volus will rock the word with that extra, something something, shield and health!!!

Yup, that would definitely make him die in 3 hits instead of 3 h... Wait.

Ability to spec him into both invasive scan and armor damage, or both bonus damage and slow on the other hand...

 

On a serious note, I suggest you people to follow wise words already posted ITT and figure out the game (DAIMP) first. We don't know if DAIMP promoted builds will be anything like 6/6/6/6/6 builds instead of something that would be more fair to compare with hypothetical builds like: 3base+3evos+3evos/4/6/6/4. Or 6/5/6/6/3/4/4. Or 6/4/6/6/4 of another class. We don't know.

 

Anyways, this just means more grind and less opportunity for newcomers to jump into higher level content than item store alone would allow them (resulting in even more grind if that content also provides strictly better reward). Maybe. Again, we don't know a thing about the game right now and just assuming that it'll be a lot like ME3MP despite all the info we're getting so far telling us that it'll be anything but ME3MP.

 

If anything, I'd say that right now it looks more like AoC (Age of Conan) instances or something similar.

[DeLaatsteGeitenneuker]

 
You don't have to wait for anything to know that p(l)ay2win is moronic. It isn't related to anything that has even the tiniest gameplay relevance - it's nothing but added tedium, causes balance & matchmaking issues, harms competitiveness, is boring, pointless, masochistic, annoying and enforced whether anyone likes it or not.
 
In short, it's all bad.
 

This "awesome" promoting crap is also going to hurt your ability to make guides: "Hey guys, this build is amazing! You only have promote 368 times to unlock all the required skillpoints!" Guides that depend on items which are unavailable to the majority of players aren't very helpful. Just saying.

 

Anyway, it's good to see you're still around SD!

I never liked promotion in ME3 MP and it does not sound good here but I am still willing to keep an open mind.

[sabreracer]

Still alive, barely.

We have dismissed that claim youngling   
 

Prepare yourself for the most expansive guides to DAI MP btw...

Looking forward to those again.  Aeti and I will be there 

[PurpGuy1]

It might turn out to be good for the ingame community.

 

Let's consider ME3MP:  How many of us play Gold and Platinum exclusively, never again to set foot in Bronze or Silver?  That means all the newbies in Bronze and Silver are either:

 

-playing with each other (and therefore not learning anything to bring into Gold+)

 

or

 

-playing with the Level 20 Krogan Warlord who presets every game to Bronze/Geth/Glacier, gets in their way, and hogs all the kills (and therefore not learning anything to bring into Gold+)

 

So once those players join our Gold+ games, they suck, and we rage.

 

With an incentive to promote, we will be playing Level 1 characters in Bronze/Silver, and the newbies will have skilled players to look up to and learn from, because we won't be so blatantly overpowered since we recently promoted.

 

The implications are that this could be beneficial to the long-term health of the game.

[Heldarion]

It might turn out to be good for the ingame community.
 
Let's consider ME3MP:  How many of us play Gold and Platinum exclusively, never again to set foot in Bronze or Silver?  That means all the newbies in Bronze and Silver are either:
 
-playing with each other (and therefore not learning anything to bring into Gold+)
 
or
 
-playing with the Level 20 Krogan Warlord who presets every game to Bronze/Geth/Glacier, gets in their way, and hogs all the kills (and therefore not learning anything to bring into Gold+)
 
So once those players join our Gold+ games, they suck, and we rage.
 
With an incentive to promote, we will be playing Level 1 characters in Bronze/Silver, and the newbies will have skilled players to look up to and learn from, because we won't be so blatantly overpowered since we recently promoted.
 
The implications are that this could be beneficial to the long-term health of the game.

Let me stop you right there. Bad players will always be bad. Those with potential will eventually get better at the game.

[PurpGuy1]

Let me stop you right there. Bad players will always be bad. Those with potential will eventually get better at the game.

 

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem

[Heldarion]

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem

I too like to paint world in black and white.

[PurpGuy1]

I too like to paint world in black and white.

 

black+white=grey

[Cyonan]

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem

 

There is no solution to people who don't want to get better at the game, which is what makes up the majority of the really bad players.

 

Unless you count "do nothing" as a solution.

[Operator m1]

Bioware take note: this is not a feature that should be implemented in ME4 mp. Part of the fun about the meta-game is creating unique builds for characters, which in turn can completely change the way a character could be played compared to another build. Taking that away by allowing everyone to have completely maxed out characters is just....no...biowerpls.

 

This right here please. The elements of choice and opportunity costs in character coustomization is what makes rpgs. I don't want another dark souls two where you will have all stats at 99 eventually, which makes your stat choices, and your starting class not matter.