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[a_mouse]

In series of previous posts on this sub-forum, I ran a variety of CQ builds (with different classes and bonus powers) through the Disabled Collector Ship mission. To anyone just joining us, here's a recap:

Enhanced mobility focussed:
Slam Soldier
Slam Infiltrator

Control focussed:
Stasis Adept (faster 2nd run with Samara as squadmate)
Stasis Engineer
Thrall Engineer

Enhanced protection focussed:
Reave Sentinel

Mixed enhanced mobility and control:
Thrall Infiltrator
Pull Field + Shockwave Vanguard

Mixed enhanced protection and control:
Stasis Sentinel
Barrier Adept
Reave Adept
 

Mixed enhanced mobility, enhanced protection, and control:
Stasis Vanguard
 

Since the DCS mission is somewhat unusual in the types of enemies, I decided it was important to demonstrate these builds (and the tactical strategies attached to them) on mechs and mercs, which are a much more common enemy to face in ME2.  I selected Thane's recruitment mission, both for its length and difficulty, as well as simultaneous mixture of shielded and armored enemies.  This mission also presents a number of challenges to the CQ specialist, including a lot of open "no-mans-land" areas with poor cover that you must cross through to close on enemies, as well as a lot of cover-breaking units (Fenris and Loki mechs, backed by merc covering fire).  

 

Anyway, here's a continuously updated summary of links to Shep @ Dantius Towers:

 

Stasis Adept  (2nd faster run!)

Energy Drain Adept   (2nd run with bonus epic fail)

Thrall Engineer

Slam Infiltrator

Stasis Sentinel

Stasis Vanguard

[a_mouse]

First up is Stasis Adept:

 

 

I decided in this case to respec points out of Warp and Throw into Pull Field, per the previous conversation on this thread.  Unlike the Werloc base, I actually did find Pull Field beneficial here due (in particular) to clustered Loki mechs and enemies hiding together behind limited cover.  I'll also add that Pull Field makes setting off a warp bombs in a group of fast-moving enemies noticeibly easier, since you don't have to hit the *same* enemy with pull and warp - just aim at the whole group, AOE strip and pull them, then warp any one of them.  Although at level 22 this requires reducing Throw and Warp to rank 3, this seemed adequate in this case due to lack of heavy enemies that could not just be controlled. Credit to capn233 for suggesting this, since otherwise I would probably have stuck with rank 1 pull instead of trying alternatives).

 

Usually I like to stay above the shield gate.  However, Adept is pretty squishy, and this mission has fairly long sequences, so I found it *very* difficult to play an aggressive CQ style without occasionally working in the health pool.  Although I had smoother runs of various parts of this mission that I could have strung together to avoid red in the vid, I felt it was important to show the two main portions of the mission (before and after the elevator) as continuous uncut takes. Thus (as with the DCS vids) the footage is fairly representative of how I am actually playing the game.

 

[Update 6/15] Here's another much faster run, with Unstable Warp, Rank 2 Throw, and Pull Field.  See post #15 (below) for further comments.

[Farangbaa]

Half those builds go against my personal headcanon concerning classes. i.e. no tech powers on non-tech classes, no biotic power on non-biotic classes. And I don't allow myself to use stasis because I cannot refrain myself from abusing the hell out of it. 

 

Some of these are awesome though

[capn233]

You can almost get away with using Heavy Singularity in most cases you would be tempted to use Stasis.  The exception is that Scions and YMIRs aren't really affected by Singularity, but they are rare enemies anyway.

[a_mouse]

You can almost get away with using Heavy Singularity in most cases you would be tempted to use Stasis.  The exception is that Scions and YMIRs aren't really affected by Singularity, but they are rare enemies anyway.

 
True, agreed.  But I think the issue here is increased versatility.  *IF* the idea is to focus on control powers as a means to achieve mobility (in order to close in on enemies), it's nice to have more options.  In particular:
 
- With Stasis you can put one enemy on hold, leaving singularity free for other things.  
- With both available, you can stick two heavy enemies simultaneously (or even three if you kite stasis between two enemies).  Even ignoring the damage bonus of Stasis, it's incredibly useful for temporarily suppressing fire long enough for you to move around and establish an advantageous position.
- Unlike Singularity, Stasis is insta-cast.  So it's great for stopping things *immediately* while you deal with other threats.
- Since it works on the few enemies that singularity does not, it helps fill in the weakness gaps of the Adept such that you can maintain a CQ-oriented style (as opposed to, for example, eliminating scions and YMIRs from range with a heavy pistol before moving in for an assault).
 

Half those builds go against my personal headcanon concerning classes. i.e. no tech powers on non-tech classes, no biotic power on non-biotic classes. And I don't allow myself to use stasis because I cannot refrain myself from abusing the hell out of it. 
 
Some of these are awesome though

 
Thanks.  Admittedly, mixing tech and biotic powers does seem to bug a lot of players from a RPG perspective.  However, it's always kind of bugged me that certain classes should be strong against one kind of enemy, and weak against others.  So in general I find mismatching bonus powers a good way to rebalance this from a "uniform playstyle" perspective.
 
I probably abuse Stasis more than I should.  But I try not to use it *only* for the damage bonus.  The one exception is won positions with a last remaining (annoying) heavy enemy that is going down sooner or later.  In that case I have no qualms about making it sooner.  (Although in general I suck at timing the glitch, so half the time miss the window of opportunity anyway).

[Vazgen]

Thrall Engineer is probably my personal favorite of these  

Looking forward to see how he'll work against mechs, though I assume, even better

[a_mouse]

Thrall Engineer is probably my personal favorite of these  
Looking forward to see how he'll work against mechs, though I assume, even better

Ha!  I may or may not do that one, given that one of my favorite ME2 vids OF ALL TIME is this one by RedCaesar.  I'm not sure what I can add to this.  But maybe some variation might be worth exploring.  

[a_mouse]

Next up is Energy Drain Adept:
 

 
As with Reave Adept (against Collectors), the basic idea here is to use a mixture of control and protection (based on a leaching power) to enable maneuvering and closing on enemies.  Although one can certainly use Reave for this purpose against mercs, I think Energy Drain is probably superior for shielded enemies or mechs because it allows you to absorb damage mostly using the barrier pool rather than the health pool.  Besides avoiding the annoying health-damage animation, this approach also allows you to stay above (or constantly re-establish) the shield gate , which affords 1 sec. of immunity from all damage after your barrier goes down.  For shielded enemies and mechs, Energy Drain is also superior to Barrier, since it has faster cool-down and does shield stripping as well. The essential problem with Energy Drain for protection is that it is basically useless on some key missions (particularly against Collectors).  However, if you don't mind respeccing to Reave or Barrier for those missions, it's possible to keep up more-or-less the same play style.  
 
Although mercs are mostly shielded, they are also fairly week, and tend to run for cover (where they can attack from range).  Thus on a mission like this (with lots of cover-breaking armored mechs and Vanguards), I think it is much more important to have a good barrier/armor AOE stripper (like Samara) than an AOE shield stripper.  Also, with AOE armor stripper on squad, every mech in play becomes a walking battery or bomb (or both, if you time it right!)
 
[This paragraph edited 6/15] The vid above is quite long (12:38). I recorded another (less entertaining?) run with ED that was 1:20 shorter than this.  However, overall the time time required (for me, now) to complete missions is much less with Stasis Adept.  This is partly due to short cutting enemies with Stasis.  But it also reflects the additional cool down time required to constantly drain targets for buffing Shep's barrier.  One could probably argue that this is a general problem with any active protection power: Barrier, Geth Shield Boost, Fortification, or Reave (used for protection).  If you can get away with only using native shields (+1 second shield gate!), it will usually be faster to do so.
 
At 5:40 I got stuck on a terrain bug (stack of drywall with box on top).  Although this would normally have ended in death, in this case the Krogan actually just knocked me loose!  (A tactical misjudgment on his part).

[a_mouse]

Well, it's been a while, but I finally got some time to make another vid!  After much debate (and despite the amazing precedent set by RedCaesar) I decided to run a Puppet Engineer through Dantius, partly because it's so hilarious:

 

 

The idea here, of course, is to use thralls (created by AI Hacking and Dominate) to control protected enemies, and then move in and clobber.  Principle immobilization of stripped targets is accomplished using Shep's Full Cryo Blast.  Although it's probably most sensible to use Garrus (area Overload + firepower) and Mordin (for armor stripping and rapid recycle of Cryo), I ultimately went with Samara (for fast recycle of armor and barrier stripping + throw) and Kasumi (area Overload + Shadow Strike) instead.  Although this build will never be fastest through this level, it definitely affords many opportunities for pure ridiculousness, as Eclipse Mercs melt into a pool of complete and total disfunction.   

[a_mouse]

Getting back on familiar territory now.  Here's a mobility-focussed CQC infiltrator with Slam as bonus power, and biotic lady squad with Tempest SMGs and Squad Cryo Ammo. This sort of build seems to eat through mercs even faster than it does the Collectors...

 

 

After originally being a huge fan of Squad Cryo, I switched to Improved Cryo for a while (for shotguns) due to better freeze duration and less interference with biotics.  But more recently I've switched back to Squad Cryo (at least for infiltrators).  It's ability to lock down large groups of weaker enemies (and keep squad mates alive) is simply too good to pass up, even with the occasional whiffed Warp bomb or thawed escapee.

 

Although this build has rank 4 Incinerate, I hardly use it on this mission.  Between Samara's Area Reave and Miranda's Unstable Warp there is plenty of armor stripping, so with this play style I find it better to save cool downs for Cloak and Slam.  But this is very situational. Other missions have heavier armored units where Incinerate is more useful.  Same argument goes for AI Hacking, which can (sometimes) be a real 1-point wonder.  So I guess my build advice (for a mobility focused Infiltrator) is to get rank 2 Incinerate and rank 1 AI Hacking fairly early, but then focus points in other areas until Cloak, passive, and Squad cryo are fully leveled up.  

[a_mouse]

OK, I realize not many are reading this forum much anymore, but here's the latest in the CQC Dantius series - Stasis Sentinel:

 

 

Comments:

 

After playing a lot of Sentinel recently, I've developed a much better appreciation for how fun this class can be for CQC.   The key to keeping this class from being boring (for me) was to stop playing like a slow moving tank, and instead capitalize on the extreme mobility afforded by Tech Armor to pull off maneuvers that other classes just can't do.  By focussing on Shep's control powers (Full Cryo Blast, Throw, Stasis) rather than direct damage dealing, it becomes possible to suppress enemy movement/gunfire, creating great opportunities for tactical repositioning (flanking, tossing enemies out of play) or closing in with a shotgun.  Although with the Stasis glitch this class is significantly OP even on Insanity, it can still be hugely fun to play.  

 

Prior to this I was working with TA + Energy Drain to extend Shep's reach and out-of-cover maneuverability (as a Mech and Merc counterpart to TA + Reave on the Collector Ship).  However, I've come to the general opinion that secondary protection strategies are generally not as effective (or as fun) as a hybrid protection/control approach. This is because 1) Assault Armor (which effectively provides two shield gates, not just stronger shields), is not enhanced much more by boosting its stat (even with level 10 Energy Drain) and 2) there is incredible synergy between Tech Armor and control powers, as you can spend your shields locking enemies down, and then maneuver and assault while the enemy is suppressed and your shields are regenerating (a really great demo of this is this vid by thisisme8, probably my second favorite ME2 vid of all time).

 

This build is the fastest I've made it through the Dantius Towers, even after stopping for a quick game of Krogan dodgeball at 4:30.  Admittedly part of the reason for this is Stasis exploits.  But even without that I suspect Sentinel would be competitive or faster than CQC Infiltrator (which more or less owns mercs).  In any case it's definitely revised my thinking on "most powerful class".

[RedCaesar97]

a_mouse: Totally agree that a CQC/assault Sentinel is just so fun.

 

I just recently finished a Sentinel playthrough in ME2. I tried to switch it up and made it a pseudo-Adept by using Slam, Throw, and Warp. It was fun, but it was became frustrating after a while since I could only do half the things the Adept can do. A few times I went back into assault mode and it just felt 'right'.

 

Sentinel with Stasis is just insanely good as you show here. Especially if you exploit the Stasis glitch and the reset-squadmate-cooldowns exploit from Tech Armor as you also do. It is practically broken (in a good way) but fun.

 

And I agree with your assessment about using the Sentinel's crowd-control powers instead of trying 'survivability' powers like Energy Drain and Reave. This is mostly how I feel about most classes in general: that crowd-control powers are more useful (and fun) than defense-stripping powers.

[a_mouse]

I just recently finished a Sentinel playthrough in ME2. I tried to switch it up and made it a pseudo-Adept by using Slam, Throw, and Warp. It was fun, but it was became frustrating after a while since I could only do half the things the Adept can do. A few times I went back into assault mode and it just felt 'right'.
 
Sentinel with Stasis is just insanely good as you show here. Especially if you exploit the Stasis glitch and the reset-squadmate-cooldowns exploit from Tech Armor as you also do. It is practically broken (in a good way) but fun.

Indeed, "broken in a fun way" is a good description.  For me the only other class that comes close to providing the same feeling of totally destroying the enemy (from a CQ perspective) is Stasis Vanguard.  Yet with Vanguard it generally requires a higher level of skill and timing to pull it off, so I feel more like I earned the fun (as opposed to getting it for free). 

  
 

[a_mouse]

Last up - Stasis Vanguard:

 

 

I held out an extra mission to get enough XP's for Pull Field, since it really helps add to the devastation.  Speed wise, this round goes to Vanguard (over Sentinel).  I think this vid demonstrates a few things:

 

1) Squad Cryo is a ridiculous ammo power.  Especially with Vanguard (which is always pushing out ahead of squad), SC substantially increases the value of your squadmates for immobilizing crowds and mopping up stragglers. (There are a few levels where I still prefer Improved Cryo Ammo,  but this is not one of them).

 

2) Cryo Ammo on Shep's shotgun is extremely valuable for time-managing multiple enemies.  With the addition of Stasis as well, Vanguard almost becomes a control class in certain situations, allowing you to apply disproportionate force to individual targets (which is where Vanguard really shines).  I realize this may be a controversial statement, but I personally think an Evi with Cryo and Strength Boost Pads is more reliable and consistent than a Claymore with Inferno Ammo.  Meanwhile, the 7 points saved leaving IA at rank 2 can be invested elsewhere (like Pull Field, which substantially boosts the value of squad mates with AOE stripping powers and Warp).  

 

3) The target of Charge does not necessarily have to be the target of an attack!  Sometimes charging something near your target puts you in a better position.  Charge can also be useful for teleporting to another location on the map, knocking enemies out of play, or purely to replenish and boost your barrier (protection). This is all mother and apple pie to many readers of this forum, I realize, but...there you have it.    

 

p.s. This is the first vid I've ever assembled with Final Cut Pro X.  A bit overkill for this, but good stuff nonetheless.

[a_mouse]

Hi all.  After recent success with Stasis Adept on the DCS mission, I decided to see how fast I could cheese my way through the Dantius Towers:

 

 

Result: about the same time-wise as Sentinel.  Although I'm pretty good at playing CQC Adept at this point, I was not able to match the speed of Vanguard on this mission without a ton of health damage.  The problem, I think, is that for missions with a lot of good cover and just a few enemies around at any given time (like the DCS), an Adept can more easily move around and keep enemies under wraps.  But with big open areas and swarms of constantly respawning mechs and mercs (like Dantius) it takes much longer to control enemies and maneuver.  

 

In hindsight, I wonder whether Miranda and Samara are the best choice of squad mates for this mission.  My logic was that all the mobility-limiting enemies (cover-breaking or advancing units like Loki, Fenris, Krogan, Vanguards) are armored or have barriers - thus the best way to maximize AOE damage is with Area Reave and Unstable Warp bombs.  However, since Shep in this case has Unstable Warp, another approach might be to double-down on AOE armor damage with Samara and Mordin.  

 

A more traditional option is to bring a squad mate with Area Overload.  However I am skeptical whether this would improve speed very much (on this particular mission), since most shielded enemies are weak and tend to cower behind cover. There was only one point in this vid (on the bridge) where I felt the need to use Miranda's Overload - the rest of the time shielded enemies were already stripped by collateral damage from warp bombs, or readily stripped with gunfire or a quick Warp-Reave combo.