123 réponses à ce sujet

[Ranadiel Marius]

This is a good point, actually.  And I have to wonder if the minor arcana's Court cards will get anything as well (such as King, Queen, Knight and Page for each)?

 

I'm almost certain that Celene will be The Empress, although I'm not certain its interpretation fits well for her.  I could see Gaspard as both The Emperor and The Hierophant.  I have no clue for the Elder One, so your guess is as good as mine!

 

I think The Tower might end up being represented by the Mage-Templar summit and the subsequent ker-plosion that takes place there.  As The Tower is symbolic of hope (peace talks), it is shown being destroyed (the Breach).  "What you have fabricated falls down, and there is little you can do to avoid the situation or repair it.  Yet you can begin again, and be all the stronger for it."

 

I personally expect that the major arcana will all be major characters from DAI and the minor will all be major events from the history of Thedas (possibly including some from DAI).

 

When it comes to Celene being the Empress, remember that they were probably well into development before they decided to do the tarot card thing (I recall they decided to go with the idea after seeing the MP character card images and thinking they looked good). As a result I imagine there will be a handful of poor fits where they just had to jam a character into a slot that was left over after all the good fits. x_x

 

As for Tower, I just had a good idea, Hawke. We know Hawke has been seen in a trailer and Hawke was at the beginning of everything falling apart, so Hawke could be seen as a living representation of the collapse of the world's order much in line with what is depicted on the Tower. Also had a thought that the Inquisitor could be the Star because I saw a mention of how Star represents a replenishing of the subconscious and material worlds, which could be associated with repairing the barrier between the world and the fade (aka dreaming realm), alternatively Elder One could go here for destroying that same barrier (depends on interpretation). 

 

Not sure where that would leave me with the Elder One if I put the Inquisitor as the Star and Hawke as the Tower. I like Hanged Man for Corypheus as I have seen it mentioned that the Hanged Man is sometimes associated with Odin who sought knowledge, was killed by the knowledge, and was then brought back to life by the sheer power of that knowledge (kind of like Cory's transgression to the Black City). If I give Morrigan the High Priestess then that would just leave the Wheel of Fate and the World for the Elder One based on my previous predictions. I believe Wheel of Fate is normally "good," so I'm hesitant to give it to the big bad.....maybe go with Star for the Elder One, throw Wheel of Fate to the Warden Commander, and World for the Inquisitor? So that would end up with:

Fool- Sera
Magician- Dorian

High Priestess- Morrigna

Emperor- Gaspard

Empress- Celene

Heirophant- The Divine

Lovers- Varric/Bianca

Chariot- Briala

Justice- Culen

Hermit- Solas

Wheel of Fortune- Warden Commander

Strength- Josephine

Hanged Man- Corypheus

Death- Cassandra

Temperance- Viv

Devil- Iron Bull

Tower- Hawke

Star- Elder One

Moon- Cole

Sun- leliana

Judgement- Blackwall

World- Inquisitor

 

The more I look at these and go through my own tarot sets looking for familiar markers, the more I think Josie is the Empress, Cullen is the Emperor, and Leliana is the High Priestess.

 

Josephine as Empress and Cullen as Emperor is pretty self-explanatory by the nature of their characters. The imagery fits well (what with her looking so feminine, surrounded by flowers; and him looking stern and carrying the banner), and what we know of their little rivalry fitting in with the complementary nature of Empress/Emperor too. Leliana as High Priestess might be a harder sell, but the raven and the hood are such common markers for this arcana, and the "sunburst" could actually be the Priestess' moon crown such as in depictions like this:

 

Spoiler

 

I have at least three different Priestesses with a halo for a moon crown like that. Not to mention that Leliana matches a lot of things commonly associated with the HP like self reclusion, bearing secrets, coming across as rather cold but having invaluable insights, carrying old traditions and lore (from her Blight days), etc. It does fit a lot better than The Sun, which I just can't see in her character anymore. Maybe at the time of DAO, but not as she is now.

 

When you think about it, too, this triad is only appropriate for the figures who would be our Inquisitor's main mentors/advisors through the journey. 

Problem with your theory, Josephine has the infinity symbol clearly on her card. The infinity symbol is associated with only two cards, Magician and Strength, Ergo it follows that she is one of those two cards. Magician is probably already taken by Dorian, so that leaves her as Strength (which works out since Strength is traditionally a female).

 

As for your other two, I don't like Leliana as Sun, but I just don't see her card as High Priestess. It is completely lacking any elements of the traditional card. For one thing it is way too colorful as one of the key elements of the High Priestess is the black and white pillars to her sides. I can almost sort of buy Viv as High Priestess because she does have the white and black thing going on.

 

And for Cullen as Emperor, it isn't impossible, but there really isn't anything point to it. He doesn't have a crown and he lacks a scepter. Only thing he has in common with the Emperor is gender. Admitly the only thing he shares with any traditional card is his gender with every traditional male card and his sword with Justice, so it isn't like the competition is fierce for him.

[riverbanks]

That's cool, they're just possible interpretations. I do think they fit well with the symbolism and meanings of the cards, and specially the roles of those three characters as mentors, and as I said, I've been looking through my own sets for visual markers and finding more in common than not, but they're educated guesses at best. Josephine as Strength and Cullen as Justice might work as these cards are opposing/complementary too but, for now, their characters and close roles with the Inquisitor's path seem to fit the Empress/Emperor dynamic better.

 

I still disagree with Sera as the Fool -the Inquisitor as the Fool is the hill I'll die on, I suppose- and am not willing to call arcanas for characters/cards we haven't seen yet, so that's as far as my interpretation of the currently available cards go, in any case. We'll have to see when the rest of the set comes out.

[Ranadiel Marius]

That's cool, they're just possible interpretations. I do think they fit well with the symbolism and meanings of the cards, and specially the roles of those three characters as mentors, and as I said, I've been looking through my own sets for visual markers and finding more in common than not, but they're educated guesses at best. Josephine as Strength and Cullen as Justice might work as these cards are opposing/complementary too but, for now, their characters and close roles with the Inquisitor's path seem to fit the Empress/Emperor dynamic better.

 

I still disagree with Sera as the Fool -the Inquisitor as the Fool is the hill I'll die on, I suppose- and am not willing to call arcanas for characters/cards we haven't seen yet, so that's as far as my interpretation of the currently available cards go, in any case. We'll have to see when the rest of the set comes out.

Okay, I'm out of the loop, so I'm curious what about Josephine's character/role screams fertility/motherhood? I'm unaware of anything about her that screams that to me (plus her card is missing the traditional Empress elements such as crown,  throne, scepter, and pregnancy). However I admit that I haven't been paying too much attention to details about her.

 

And I will die on the hill that Sera's card is not the tower (unless Bioware missed the point of the Tower card). There are plenty of other cards that work fine the Inquisitor such as Star (for replenishment of the physical and subconscious/fade), Wheel of Fortune (for possibilities), or World (for reaching the end of the journey), and Sera's card has elements of the Fool in it.

 

And yeah I can totally understand not wanting to make guesses for characters/cards we don't have visuals for. I would agree with you except that I was able to fill out all my missing slots with characters that should have a big impact in DAI, so I went with it. *shrug* I do feel strongly on Corpheus being the Hanged Man and Hawke being the Tower (probably with an image of the Chantry explosion as he watches) though. Others on my list could get shifted around though. Like Morrigan to Empress, Viv to High Priestess, and Celene to Temperence....actually I know nothing about Celene beyond her position so I have no idea on what tarrot would fit her. She's just a place filler for me. x_x

[LaughingWolf]

Why does everyone think Sera = The Fool, her character seems more inline with The Tower.

The only card that makes sense as The Fool is the Inquisitor; or one of the past protagonists.

[Solas]

Thank you a clever name!

[Ranadiel Marius]

Why does everyone think Sera = The Fool, her character seems more inline with The Tower.

The only card that makes sense as The Fool is the Inquisitor; or one of the past protagonists.

A. Not everyone thinks that (quite a few of the last several posts have been arguing over this)

B. The Tower applies to just about every single character in the game, saying that her character is in line with the character is roughly the equivalent to saying she is in the game. Look at just about every other companion, and they an equal claim to being the Tower as she. The tower representing the world has fallen, that applies to everyone. Heck, I'd argue that Viv's claim to the Tower could be seen as stronger than Sera's claim.

C. One aspect of the fool is a lack of experience, and my recollection is that she has been described as unaware of the world at large. So an aspect of her story will likely be the Fool's journey to gain knowledge of the greater world.

D. Her card's artwork is completely lacking the primary and most important aspect of the tower card (the tower falling).

E. Her card has several elements that can be seen as matching common depictions of the Fool including her pose and her bow as the Fool's staff.

[A Clever Name]

Thank you a clever name!

No problem!  (Also omg fangirling Solas liked my post  ) 

 

Why does everyone think Sera = The Fool, her character seems more inline with The Tower.

The only card that makes sense as The Fool is the Inquisitor; or one of the past protagonists.

Mostly it has to do with the appearance of the card, for me.  Here's a big version of it:

 

Spoiler

Source can be found in the main post

 

Well, there are no visual cues for The Tower in her card.  The Tower is defined by people jumping from it, as lightning strikes its body, or as something actively destroys it.  Sera doesn't look to have leaped from the building in the card's image, and it certainly isn't damaged in any way.  And her posture, as well as the colorful design of the card, is reminiscent of The Fool.  I don't think we need to strictly interpret the cards based on The Fool's Journey, as in almost every context I've read those journeys through the arcana it's been to better explain the cards and their interpretations.  The Fool has its own, independent, interpretation.

 

But I don't think anyone is wrong for having a different interpretation.  It's not as though any of us can be any more correct than anyone else, since BioWare is the one that ultimately has all of the right answers.

[riverbanks]

I'm curious what about Josephine's character/role screams fertility/motherhood?

 

Oh I didn't even take into account the motherhood/fertility reading, because no current characters really fit that bill (except maybe... Morrigan? Though I'd be butthurt from here to the moon about her getting that role since the Dark Ritual was never done in my game). In past games I would definitely have put Wynne in there.

 

For Josephine, I was more going with the Empress' angle of feminity, appreciation of arts, proficiency and cunning with business and diplomacy, etc. that you find in some interpretations.

 

And I will die on the hill that Sera's card is not the tower (unless Bioware missed the point of the Tower card). There are plenty of other cards that work fine the Inquisitor such as Star (for replenishment of the physical and subconscious/fade), Wheel of Fortune (for possibilities), or World (for reaching the end of the journey), and Sera's card has elements of the Fool in it.

 

I recognize the elements that could be linked to the Fool in Sera's card, but it makes no sense at all for her to be that card when she's not the protagonist of the story, and every other arcana is clearly laid out to follow the Fool's Journey interpretation, where the Fool (Inquisitor) learns from the major arcana as he/she encounters them through the story (I do know there are other ways to read tarot, but this is pretty clearly the intention with this one).

 

But! I do also agree that Sera is probably not the Tower either. In the in-universe context that we have, the Tower is very very likely to be the destruction of the Circle system. The Tower card may even be the destruction of the White Spire (which was an actual tower, when the Gallows were underground). As for Sera... for what barebones we know of her character, I agree she may be the Star, and even the Sun. She fits both pretty well.

 

Celene to Temperence....actually I know nothing about Celene beyond her position so I have no idea on what tarrot would fit her. She's just a place filler for me. x_x

 

Celene is actually not ringing any bells in the major arcana, and neither is Gaspard, which is sort of why I'm hesitant to even place them there. If we went into the court cards, I could maybe see Celene as the Queen of Wands, Anora as the Queen of Spades, Alistair as the King of Cups and Gaspard as the King of Pentacles, but that's going way beyond the scope these current cards.

[Freedheart]

I recently read in one of the threads that Duncan is featured on the Nightmare card.  It's been years since I've seen a Tarot deck, so I'm probably way off, but isn't the nine of Swords the nightmare - or am I thinking of something else?  Also, could someone link me a picture of this card...I still mourn deeply the loss of my friend and mentor.  Thanks!

[A Clever Name]

I recently read in one of the threads that Duncan is featured on the Nightmare card.  It's been years since I've seen a Tarot deck, so I'm probably way off, but isn't the nine of Swords the nightmare - or am I thinking of something else?  Also, could someone link me a picture of this card...I still mourn deeply the loss of my friend and mentor.  Thanks!

Nine of Swords is indeed the "Nightmare" card.  Here's one of its illustrations I see quite often when shown in that regard.  The Nine of Swords is representative of despair, nightmares and torment.

 

Spoiler

 

However, there's also the Ten of Swords, which is depicted as thus.  The Ten of Swords is representative of betrayal, defeat and loss, which I think is more fitting for Duncan.

 

Spoiler

 

I don't have a picture of this Duncan tarot card.  Sorry!  Which reminds me that I need to update the main post with pictures of the race cards!  I'll do some looking for it.  Let me know if you track anything down yourself and I'll add it to the ones I've currently compiled.

[A Clever Name]

I have updated the main post with pictures of the Class and Difficulty selection tarot cards.  For convenience, I'll also post them on this page.

 

Class:

 

Difficulty:

 

 

With these new additions, I'm almost certain that the Nightmare card depicts Duncan as the Ten of Swords, or at the very least it seems to be inspired by it.  But I can also see an argument being made for Nine of Swords, considering the difficulty level is called Nightmare!  The card itself only has eight swords in it by my count, though.

[Devtek]

I have updated the main post with pictures of the Class and Difficulty selection tarot cards.  For convenience, I'll also post them on this page.

 

Class:

 

 

Difficulty:

 

 

With these new additions, I'm almost certain that the Nightmare card depicts Duncan as the Ten of Swords, or at the very least it seems to be inspired by it.  But I can also see an argument being made for Nine of Swords, considering the difficulty level is called Nightmare!  The card itself only has eight swords in it by my count, though.

 

Random googling produced "self imposed restrictions" for 8 swords.  A rather fitting depiction of a person choosing nightmare mode. I know nothing of this sort of thing, just interested in seeing who represents what.

[ElementalFury106]

The lobster near Cole cracks me up for whatever reason

[Ranadiel Marius]

Posted this in another thread, and I figured I would revive this thread also.

Alright, I'm home now. So here is a list of the major arcana and a couple of the minor that I can identify. Note that I am identifying companions as either default, positive, or negative. Default is the card that they start with, positive is their card of the other two that looks like ti has more positive emotions to it, and negative is the one that looks like it has more negative emotions to it. I have no idea on what triggers any of them (except Varric's negative) so I could very well get some of them wrong.

The Fool- Sera Default
Magician- Dorian Default
The High Priestess- Viv Default
Empress- Cassandra Negative(calling this one negative is a stretch)
Emperor- Some pale Orlesian(?) with Flemethish hair, going with it being Viv Positive although the skiin tone is completely wrong
Heirophant- Solas Positive
Lovers- Varric Default
Chariot- Dorian Positive
Justice- Blackwall Positive
Hermit- Solas Default
Wheel of Fortune- Iron Bull Negative
Strength- Cassandra Default
World- Viv negative....maybe? Person is wearing a white mask with a blue jewel, I'm getting a Viv vibe from it despite it not really being clearly her
Jusgement- Blackwall default
Sun- Varric Positive
Moon- Cole Default
Star- Sera Positive
Tower- Solas Negative....I think
Devil- Iron Bull Default
Temperance- Cassandra Positive (I think she looks slightly happier in this one)
Death- Blackwall Negative
Hanged Man- Sera Negative

Staves generally is demons
Queen of Staves- Morrigan
Page of Staves- Cole Positive maybe

Swords is generally warriors
Queen of Swords- Lelianna
Knight of Swords- Cullen
Page of Swords- Cole negative maybe
Ten of Swords- Iron Bull (maybe) positive

Coins has all the race select cards
Page of Coins- Varric Negative....very negative
Queen of Coins- Josephine, which is not her in game card

Cups seem to have a lot of red templar
Page of Cups- Dorian Negative

[Yermogi]

I wish so badly that I could just buy the tarot cards without having to pay $170 for the Inquisitor's Edition. I just want the cards. The other stuff I can live without and don't really care for, but I would love to just look at the artwork. Maybe try to learn Tarot reading. All I can read right now is playing cards, although I've been told I'm good at that. But it's two different systems, so I've been lead to believe.

[Ranadiel Marius]

So I was looking through the cards some more to see if I could find another possibility for Blackwall's negative (found none as there are almost no bearded men in the deck), but I did notice a few new things.

 

-Sera is flipping you off in the Star card....also I love the art on the card

-The King of Swords is the Inquisitor's iconic helmet

-The Knight of coins is Kirkwall....with a clawed foot

-King of Coins is a dragon, I think

 

Side note, I feel confident that Cassandra was originally Death and Josephine was originally Strength, but Josephine was booted from the Major Arcana since every single other Major Arcana is a companion. Inquisitor as death was then made to take up the missing slack (mind you I like the Inquisitor as Death). Don't see any other reason why Josephine's card doesn't match what is in game.

 

I wish so badly that I could just buy the tarot cards without having to pay $170 for the Inquisitor's Edition. I just want the cards. The other stuff I can live without and don't really care for, but I would love to just look at the artwork. Maybe try to learn Tarot reading. All I can read right now is playing cards, although I've been told I'm good at that. But it's two different systems, so I've been lead to believe.

Bright side, there is going to be a deck of playing cards which look to use the minor arcana. Sadly you'll be lacking the major arcana, but you can view those in game (except maybe Death? dunno on that one).

[Mims]

So I am in love with these tarot cards. I shall make a public plea- if you get the super collector's edition, could someone please make some clean scans of all of them? The artwork on these is absolutely astounding. 

[azarhal]

 

Bright side, there is going to be a deck of playing cards which look to use the minor arcana. Sadly you'll be lacking the major arcana, but you can view those in game (except maybe Death? dunno on that one).

 

Cassandra's party selection card is Death by default. It's literally based off this card.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Cassandra's party selection card is Death by default. It's literally based off this card.

I own the cards and her starting party select card is strength...I think Josephine was originally strength and there was a last second shuffle moving Cassandra to Strength. I don't know if the Inquisitor as Death card made it into the game or not (guessing no though as Queen of Coins Josephine is not in the game as far as I can tell).

[azarhal]

I own the cards and her starting party select card is strength...I think Josephine was originally strength and there was a last second shuffle moving Cassandra to Strength. I don't know if the Inquisitor as Death card made it into the game or not (guessing no though as Queen of Coins Josephine is not in the game as far as I can tell).

 

You mean Cassandra on a white horse with a black flag that emulate the most traditional Death Tarot card is labelled Strength in the pack?

[Zana]

I would call Leliana Temperance, Cullen Justice.  Which would make sense to put Josephine as Strength. (This way advisers cover all virtues in Major Arcana).  While I could certainly see having Cassandra as Strength (character wise), her card looks absolutely nothing like representation of any of Strength in any classic Tarot decks that I can see.

[Ranadiel Marius]

You mean Cassandra on a white horse with a black flag that emulate the most traditional Death Tarot card is labelled Strength in the pack?

Yes I do. I listed all of the major arcana few posts up.

I would call Leliana Temperance, Cullen Justice. Which would make sense to put Josephine as Strength. (This way advisers cover all virtues in Major Arcana). While I could certainly see having Cassandra as Strength (character wise), her card looks absolutely nothing like representation of any of Strength in any classic Tarot decks that I can see.

The advisors are all minor arcana.

[Zana]

Yes I do. I listed all of the major arcana few posts up.

The advisors are all minor arcana.

Urk.  Ok, went through your post.  Thank you.  I disagree with a number of those assignments, but as I wasn't the person who designed the deck, I have no other choice but to accept them.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Urk.  Ok, went through your post.  Thank you.  I disagree with a number of those assignments, but as I wasn't the person who designed the deck, I have no other choice but to accept them.

Well I got one wrong, Death is Blackwall Negative not the Inquisitor. Can't believe I missed the beard on that so many times. The card does however look more like Death than Cassandra....although that hardly makes Cassandra fit Strength any better.