252 réponses à ce sujet

[Mistic]

Also, do you really think that the question of who the OGB's mother is wouldn't come up? The question of who his mother is is going to be asked, of both the OGB and of the father? (Assuming the father is readily available?) If the OGB can't give a mother, someone's going to assume there's some problem with her.

 

Then he could use the same solution as Alistair's: "my mother was a random castle maid who had an affair with the king". Or better yet: "yes, his age is no coincidence. He was conceived when King Alistair was fighting in the Fifth Blight. How? My lords and ladies, there are many eyewitnesses that saw Alistair and the Hero of Ferelden entering a famous brothel in Denerim. You can figure out the rest."

 

All in all, I don't think the OGB will become a candidate for the Fereldan throne. First, because he might not exist at all, or Alistair might not be king. Second, because Bioware could solve any doubt by making him a mage (likely). No mage can inherit the throne.

[CENIC]

I'm hoping there is an heir we just haven't heard about yet... if only for certain royal couple combinations.

 

Like, solo Alistair marrying an unknown woman and producing an heir, or a male Warden marrying Anora.

 

(I think Cailan was infertile. If he was as unfaithful as Anora claims you'd think there would be dozens of royal bastards running around..)

 

I don't have any Queen Wardens, but I do have a human mage Warden who is Alistair's mistress. I'd love for THEM to have a child that becomes heir, but, well.

 

Declaring a succession crisis just seems so cheap. Don't give us a choice of who rules and then tear down our carefully chosen dynasty two games later. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Declaring a succession crisis just seems so cheap. Don't give us a choice of who rules and then tear down our carefully chosen dynasty two games later. 

You don't get to choose a dynasty, you get to choose a ruler. And those choices: a man we know will have a tough time conceiving, a woman who might, both, or either married to the opposite gender hero (who we also know has difficulty conceiving.) Maybe it was cheap to give you those choices in the first place, but the fact remains that if you pick from those choices (which you did), you shouldn't be surprised that no matter what you do, there's no heir.

[Br3admax]

I've been assuming the OGB would be a mage, because otherwise what would be the point? What exactly would be different about the OGB if there wasn't magic involved, and presumably more powerful magic than could otherwise be attained?

How would anyone know the result before hand. I'm sure Morrigan wants a mage, but that doesn't mean she'll get one. 

 

 

Also, do you really think that the question of who the OGB's mother is wouldn't come up? The question of who his mother is is going to be asked, of both the OGB and of the father. (Assuming the father is readily available.) If the OGB can't give a mother, someone's going to assume there's some problem with her.

And how would anyone know the difference between the tale you'll tell and the truth? 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

How would anyone know the result before hand. I'm sure Morrigan wants a mage, but that doesn't mean she'll get one. 

And how would anyone know the difference between the tale you'll tell and the truth? 

Fair point, but it just seems to me that having a god's soul put in you will in all likelihood result in a mage. It might have a different nature than that of the mages Dragon Age is used to, and might even be immune to possession, but it's probably going to have some sort of magic.

 

Also fair point with regards to if you tell a tale, but unless it's backed up by the father (which, while not impossible, is going to be a hurdle) then the Landsmeet might take some convincing. They might be smarter this time around than to just take as read that the guy's parents are who he says they are. Heck, they might only have believed Alistair because Eamon said to, and he doesn't know it to be correct this time.

[Br3admax]

Fair point, but it just seems to me that having a god's soul put in you will in all likelihood result in a mage. It might have a different nature than that of the mages Dragon Age is used to, and might even be immune to possession, but it's probably going to have some sort of magic.

Magic doesn't really have anything to do with one's soul. Not unless you're possessed. 

 

 

Also fair point with regards to if you tell a tale, but unless it's backed up by the father (which, while not impossible, is going to be a hurdle) then the Landsmeet might take some convincing. They might be smarter this time around than to just take as read that the guy's parents are who he says they are. Heck, they might only have believed Alistair because Eamon said to, and he doesn't know it to be correct this time.

Lulz. Competent Fereldans. That's a good one.  

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Magic doesn't really have anything to do with one's soul. Not unless you're possessed. 

Lulz. Competent Fereldans. That's a good one.  

Even if it doesn't, having Morrigan as a mother could very well mean magic. And there's some chance of a mage father, too.

 

It only takes one competent nobly born Ferelden to completely shoot this plan to hell. You really want to run a plan that depends on there being none of those? I mean, I'll grant that it's not the worst possible plan, but seriously.

[Icy Magebane]

Magic doesn't really have anything to do with one's soul. Not unless you're possessed. 

You know, having an Old God's soul in the body of a normal human is kind of a waste... there has to have been some component of the DR that took this into account, or the fact that it's a divine being's (or w/e an Old God is) soul ensures that it has a connection to the Fade and thus can control magic.  Otherwise this all seems really pointless to me... I guess it's a way for the devs to ensure that the OGB is never relevant to the story, but I have to wonder why Morrigan would have even wanted this child if it had no special abilities...

[Br3admax]

Even if it doesn't, having Morrigan as a mother could very well mean magic. And there's some chance of a mage father, too.

A OGB with mage father isn't even being discussed here. Either way, having mage parent has never been a given for a mage child. 

 

 

It only takes one competent nobly born Ferelden to completely shoot this plan to hell. 

Not really. 

 

 

You really want to run a plan that depends on there being none of those? I mean, I'll grant that it's not the worst possible plan, but seriously.

If the person whom singly handedly brought together Ferelden endorses/is you, the amount of people who'll challenge will diminish.

 

You know, having an Old God's soul in the body of a normal human is kind of a waste... there has to have been some component of the DR that took this into account, or the fact that it's a divine being's (or w/e an Old God is) soul ensures that it has a connection to the Fade and thus can control magic.  Otherwise this all seems really pointless to me... I guess it's a way for the devs to ensure that the OGB is never relevant to the story, but I have to wonder why Morrigan would have even wanted this child if it had no special abilities...

 

  There's a very strong misunderstanding of how magic works here. One that is near painful. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

 

A OGB with mage father isn't even being discussed here. Either way, having mage parent has never been a given for a mage child. 

Not really. 

If the person whom singly handedly brought together Ferelden endorses/is you, the amount of people who'll challenge will diminish.

No, having a mage parent has never been a guarantee. That said, magic does follow in families. So whether or not the OGB's soul grants magic (which seems to me to be more likely than you take it for) might very well be moot.

 

Hey, one competent person can point it out to other people. And if you just kill him/her he/she is definitely going to be listened to.

 

(Now, if the Inquisitor gets involved after or during saving Ferelden, maybe this plan can be made to work...)

[Icy Magebane]

There's a very strong misunderstanding of how magic works here. One that is near painful.

Really?  I thought dwarves couldn't do magic because they lacked a connection to the Fade.  Is it that much of a stretch to believe that an Old God's soul would override whatever physical or metaphysical condition is responsible for this connection being present in humans?  Do we even know what causes mages in the first place?

[Br3admax]

No, having a mage parent has never been a guarantee. That said, magic does follow in families. So whether or not the OGB's soul grants magic (which seems to me to be more likely than you take it for) might very well be moot.

That's true. I never said the OGB wasn't a mage, I said that there's a possibility that they aren't, and thus giving point to this conversation. Otherwise, it'd be finish long before it began. 

 

 

Hey, one competent person can point it out to other people. And if you just kill him/her he/she is definitely going to be listened to.

 

(Now, if the Inquisitor gets involved after or during saving Ferelden, maybe this plan can be made to work...)

You've meddled in my plans enough. I have plans for this child, and I won't let you stand in the way. The best way to handl this is to remove competent people. Discreetly. 

 

On a serious note, I doubt anyone will question the child of a hero in Ferelden. Not with so much influence. 

Really?  I thought dwarves couldn't do magic because they lacked a connection to the Fade.  Is it that much of a stretch to believe that an Old God's soul would override whatever physical or metaphysical condition is responsible for this connection being present in humans?  Do we even know what causes mages in the first place?

That's not what i'm talking about. A dwarf's soul isn't why s/he lacks a connection to the Fade. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

The best way to handl this is to remove competent people. Discreetly. 

 

On a serious note, I doubt anyone will question the child of a hero in Ferelden. Not with so much influence.

If people who question you start vanishing, people might start asking questions. I mean, they might not, but do you really want to depend on getting away with the same things Loghain got caught doing just a few decades previously? Which most of the sitting nobles will probably remember him getting Joined/decapitated over?

 

The difficulty is that there might be problems getting them to conclude that the child is of the Hero Of Ferelden. I still don't think that could have worked had Eamon not been on board.

[Icy Magebane]

That's not what i'm talking about. A dwarf's soul isn't why s/he lacks a connection to the Fade. 

Well, we know that regardless of race, a connection to the Fade separates mages from non-mages.  What do you think determines this connection?  Perhaps if you explain that I'd understand why you seem to think it's impossible for an Old God's soul to have any influence over magical aptitude...

 

The other thing I'm not quite understanding is what possible reason Flemeth and Morrigan could have had for wanting an Old God's soul if the body that housed it lacked the ability to cast spells or enter the Fade.  That sounds like a lot of trouble to go through for a normal human child who just happens to have a mystical soul.  Unless the plan is to harvest that soul later on, housing it in a non-magical vessel doesn't make a lot of sense... the Dark Ritual itself wouldn't be very useful if there was any chance that it would fail to produce a mage, considering they would only have one chance to get it right.

 

Speaking of souls... didn't Morrigan mention at one point that Flemeth didn't need a mage in order to transfer her soul (and magic powers) into a new body?  I remember her saying that it worked more smoothly if the body was already trained in magic, but that it wasn't necessary... so wouldn't this Old God's soul also have the potential to transfer magic powers, thus turning any mortal it inhabited into a mage?  I believe this was mentioned in response to a question the Warden could ask when Morrigan first told them about Flemeth's bodysnatching process...

[Br3admax]

If people who question you start vanishing, people might start asking questions. I mean, they might not, but do you really want to depend on getting away with the same things Loghain got caught doing just a few decades previously? Which most of the sitting nobles will probably remember him getting Joined/decapitated over?

Loghain got caught because we're a PC. There would be no evidence he was even involved, and he's just shift the blame to Howe. 

 

 

The difficulty is that there might be problems getting them to conclude that the child is of the Hero Of Ferelden. I still don't think that could have worked had Eamon not been on board.

The only thing Eamon does is call the Landsmeet. What wins the Warden favor is evidence and Anora. 

 

*snip*

 

Dwarven souls obviously still have magical properties, so I still don't think it has anything to do with that. Dwarves can also still enter the Fade, like Varric or Oghren, so....

 

As for Flemeth, she's an abomination outside the norm, and while many think she may be an OGB, there's no evidence one way or the other. I tend not to bring her up in debates on those grounds. 

[DRTJR]

I really want Alister and Anora to have a kid just to spite Cailen.

[Zu Long]

It's goddmodding to have the nobles be totally ok with your bastard mageborn child raised in your political enemies house. The candidate for the throne has to be acceptable to the landsmeet. For instance Eamon couldn't have just picked some random person and been like "whatever lets make this person royalty." because he's popular, you can't choose someone the nobility won't find acceptable. The kid has pretty much no shot against who has the biggest army/best brown noser  because there's plenty of things that make him completely unacceptable.

 

When your other option is to choose someone the landsmeet actually like, know, and may have plenty of political power and friends among the nobility vs...this kid no one knows, has no reason to trust, and have many reasons to dislike/not trust at all? It's not really a contest.

 

There's no indication there's going to be any situation with the nobility to make them desperate enough to not care that this random unknown bastard kid raised by a mage not among the nobility of ferelden, but in orlais who they in fact hate, over say, any well connected or popular noble. There's no desperation in "Alistair/Cousland and Anora/Cousland are getting older, don't have an heir, so they decide to take their time and pick someone who will be a good choice among the nobles"

 

Also it's not set up so that it's true no matter who is the father, a mage amell, an elf, and a dwarf, can all be the father leaving the kid with even less claim to the throne (so go from like 1% to 0%)

 

 

Lol, you're right, I forgot you could do it as any male. I still think you're wrong about what the Landsmeet would accept though, especially if the alternative is the civil war I think would be coming. There are plenty of examples in history of a heirless king breaking a kingdom into factions, and I think that the OGB could get enough support to be dangerous despite being an outsider. Especially if his Dad was King and decides to back his claim. I imagine it will depend on the actions of the player when the time comes, but I think just through blood the OGB has a stronger right of claim than any of the other nobles. Certainly more than Teagan or Fergus. It would be interesting if a group that didn't like the old King backed him against whoever the chosen successor was. I don't see the nobles being nearly as accepting of whoever happens to have Alistair or Anora's favor as you seem to. I suppose Bioware could do it that way, but what fun would that be?

[Arijharn]

I believe i'm missing the point as well, however I believe it worth mentioning that warden pc, Warden Loghain and Warden Alistair can get Morigan pregnant. So as long as Anora isn't infertile . Their is a good chance either the warden or that fool Alistair will have got Anora pregnant with an adequate heir before the start of Dragon Age inquisition. It could even be a plot point in inquisition.

 

It's worth pointing out, that there is a rumour that potentially goes around that Morrigan is with child even if a Dark Ritual doesn't occur. Wardens may have reduced fertility rates, but that doesn't mean they're infertile.

 

 

I'm not saying Cailan never had sex, I'm saying he was doing a good job of not siring an heir with Anora, who admits to the player that Cailan often cheated on her. And yes, Cailan did like Anora, but Anora is emotionally frigid. When Loghain talks about heirs to his daughter, she turns white! And yes, I am well aware of the fact that couples, married or not, do the nasty.

 

 

Yes of course, but what I was trying to say in a humorous manner that obviously failed was that despite what people may want at the time, people may get pregnant. Or might not. Systemic attempts to purposely not get his wife pregnant would bound to arouse suspicion within the court. Cailan sleeping around is bound to gain attention. Anora, by not getting pregnant, which frankly is half the 'duty' of the queen when looking at medieval societies, is going to gain attention. Unless Cailan and Anora started sleeping in seperate rooms (which would definitely be a source of gossip wouldn't you say?), I think that they would on occasion get intimate. But like I said, if Cailan actively spoils the chances of Anora falling pregnant, I'd think that sooner or later the issue would come to a head. Even if it's just a maid hearing Anora shouting at Cailan behind closed doors (since Anora always struck me as someone capable of speaking her mind).

 

Besides, Eamon to me by those notes didn't sound like he was trying to 'conspire' anything at all, but merely pointing out that by their reckoning, since Anora had failed to meet some of her 'obligations' as queen, Cailan is in turn obligated to find a way to create an heir. Cailan, showing more initiative than previous suspected courts Celene I. Somehow I doubt even Eamon suspects this. Loghain is downright furious if he finds out.

 

When does Loghain talk to Anora about heirs to the throne?

[RobRam10]

When does Loghain talk to Anora about heirs to the throne?

When Loghain comes to visit you in Vigil's Keep he says that he had a chat with Anora about future heirs.

[HK-90210]

Rather than dealing with the headaches of always giving an heir to our Ferelden monarchs, I see three potential solutions that the devs may go with.

 

1. They purposefully leave it unmentioned. Until it becomes relevant to the plot, why even bother mentioning an heir? Alistair and the Warden still have ~20 years of life left to go before their Calling. And Anora is a little older than them, but isn't a Warden, so she should have a little more time then them, most likely.  So for at least 20 in-game years of Dragon Age, it's not a serious issue. This allowed headcanons to be relevant for as long as possible. But eventually, if Dragon Age continues into the 9:60-70s, it will be a plotline that the devs can no longer ignore. But that might be three or four games from now. That comes out to about 15 years, at the current rate they're making DA games. The fanbase should not have to be that patient to see this succession crisis, IMO. I know this solution simply delays the decision, but I see it as the most likely immediate outcome.

 

2. Anora always has a child, and this will always be the heir to the Kingdom. Anora is always alive. You can't kill her, unlike Alistair. Her fertility is not set in stone. I think the devs might decide that no matter what happens, she has a child. Be it the Warden's, Alistair's, some other consort. Let's not forget that Anora is still the Teyrna of Gwaren, regardless of whether or not she gets the throne. A worthy marriage-aged woman with plenty to offer, should a man meet her standards. And the devs have already said the Epilogues of DA:O were mere rumors and hardly canon in any sense of the word. So none of this 'Anora stays single if she rules alone' stuff. Anora understands the value of a good marriage for uniting a weakened country. I think it is a valid route for the devs to say that Anora always has a son/daughter to carry on the Mac-Tir name, and they are the heir to the throne regardless of who the Warden gave it to.

 

3. There are no heirs between any of the monarch pairs from DA:O, and some other figure has to step in. Whether Bioware decides for the player to take an active part in the succession crisis to follow would remain to be seen. For all we know by the time we get to that point in the Dragon Age, the action will be taking place in Tevinter. If this ends up happening, I think the only real option amongst the Ferelden nobles we know of are Teryn Cousland and Bann Teagan, with Teyrn Cousland the heavy favorite, I think.

 

Personally, I like option 2 the most. And not just because I like Anora. I think it simplifies things, but allows some level of consequence for player actions. This child could be of Cousland or Therin blood as well as Mac-Tir. But the core character could stay the same, since he/she would have the same mother. Also, it doesn't leave me feeling like my choice in DA:O didn't make any difference.

[Eveangaline]

I'm sure Alistiar/Cousland and Anora can make a kid, and an unfaithful Cousland with Alistair and Zevran on the side can make a kid.

 

I mean provided they let the stork show up

 

 

And if they do fight that bugger off Fergus and his line are a great choice. As is Teagan.

[Arijharn]

When Loghain comes to visit you in Vigil's Keep he says that he had a chat with Anora about future heirs.

 

I'm assuming this is if you marry Anora then?

[Arijharn]

I'm hoping there is an heir we just haven't heard about yet... if only for certain royal couple combinations.

 

Like, solo Alistair marrying an unknown woman and producing an heir, or a male Warden marrying Anora.

 

(I think Cailan was infertile. If he was as unfaithful as Anora claims you'd think there would be dozens of royal bastards running around..)

 

Who's to say there aren't dozens of royal bastards running around? I mean, that's the problem, they're royal bastards and short of something drastic, they are illegitimate. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. The perceived problem is that Anora was infertile, not Cailan. You might say: 'well if that's true then Cailan's illegitimate son would be put on the throne, not Alistair' but the problem would be that there would be no leadership which is exactly the problem at the time. Both Eamon and Loghain at the time did not have the full support of the landsmeet. A child younger than 10 would have the exact same problem, even if Cailan's child. Everyone was afraid of the darkspawn razing their lands, they needed someone to unite behind. They found that in Alistair.

 

Personally, I don't know who was infertile. I think it could be either Anora, Cailan or some third element at fault. I'm not willing to support any case at all. Coming against Cailan sort of just seems like railing against the popular presented 'solution' imo.

[Meraxes]

I used to think the whole 'no heir' thing would be a huge plot point Inquisition, since either Cailan or Anora (or both?) seemed to have problems producing one, and Alistair having fertility problems because he's a warden. If Anora was the one who wasn't 'performing' it would pretty much leave the throne without an heir in all scenarios (presuming Alistair can't overcome the odds).   

[Medhia_Nox]

Well - I played my Cousland Warden (Main) as quite promiscuous in his past before becoming a Warden.  So, while it would only be headcanon - my Warden seized the throne knowing full well he was going to try to get one of his own bastards on the throne.  

 

My "Hero of Ferelden" took the throne because it was owed to him... he lost his comfort, his land, his freedom shackled to a cause someone else should have fought and died for - Maker be damned he was going to get something out of it.  

 

Not sure if I'm going to decide to have him do the Dark Ritual in the Keep - if he does - he's going to have a falling out with Morrigan (headcanon) cause he wants his kid to sit the throne of Ferelden and the wench took what isn't hers (if you can't tell - he's very self-serving).