If we're talking about D&D (since we're using D&D spell names) then healing wasn't actually a substantial portion of what a support class did, even at higher levels.
Hence why they fit comfortably under the criteria, even though it was (and still is) more efficient to avoid damage altogether, either through mitigation, positioning, and/or the eradication of all threats in the most timely manner possible.
So basically, to wrap the gist of last page up,
Healer as a role and identity in video games is actually completely obsolete, unnecessary, inefficient and undesirable. This is mainly because some cult of Pen n Paper hard-liners have reached this conclusion when writing excellent essays about min-maxing most efficient PnP group set ups for their PnP games.
Sounds legit. Sign me up! Death to healers!
Well I don't play pnp dnd but normally when playing pnp games I normally bring a "cleric" or a healer mostly for their cc's and buff/utility skills more than anything the healing spells were just a "Bonus". This my opinion on the subject.
^ Maybe like 72% about recent discussion is semantics mostly. ;p
Scarred veterans of many a PnP battle have grown accustomed to calling them healers as supporters or whatnot since time immemorial. People who got exposed to group-play in RPGs through multi-player in video games know the same people as healers. When we speak of the " trinity",every single healer class/role since forever has had it's share of support, migitation and Crowd Control. Just like every damage dealer, too, has had it's share of CC,buffs, debuffs. And ofc, no tank has ever been literally 100% just about tanking and nothing else.
Regarding evolution of Healers and morphing them as some irrelevant side-tree of support in PnP;
It is interesting how the evolution has actually been reverse in video game world;
World of Warcraft(and Everquest before it I think) began with " Support classes" being 4th clearly definable&recognizeable identity among ones we keep calling trinity. Druids, for example, were not awesome healers in their own right but would deliver great deal of utility and enhance the overall healing of raid when working with " actual" healers. Much to woe of everybody,Blizzard did it's own share of streamlining and erased the support classes by turning them into more " traditional" healers or damage dealers.
Yeah Wires, when I think healer (and I've played plenty of MMO's) I still immediately think of DnD Clerics. Which just makes me think of a semi-tanky, support class that can patch up folks after a fight, or the rare well timed heal mid battle but that's a rarity. Personally, the big heal that has a secondary requirement of focus just to keep people from full healing after each battle so the past battles have weight and meaning to them I personally like more for a healer/support class.
I mean, as a mage, you'll be able to heal, it just wont be spamy. It wont be a consistent, constant output (regardless of if that's all the time of every minute like in DA2). It's a turning the tide of a battle every once in awhile massive 'this is what we need right now to get through this fight'. Frankly that's what I like, and I'll be making a heavy support mage who's focus 'is' that big heal. I like that, it's your chars trump card, not the thing they do non-stop cause it's their only job.
So basically, to wrap the gist of last page up,
Healer as a role and identity in video games is actually completely obsolete, unnecessary, inefficient and undesirable. This is mainly because some cult of Pen n Paper hard-liners have reached this conclusion when writing excellent essays about min-maxing most efficient PnP group set ups for their PnP games.
Sounds legit. Sign me up! Death to healers!
One can replace healer with any old RPG class like S&S warriors in your post and then say they should die as well.Why not just kill the class system altogether while you're at it?
A lot of things are unnecessary,obsolete,inefficient,and undesirable if you think about it.Levels are obsolete,health meters are obsolete,hell some game mechanics are all of the above.
Yet I don't see anyone cheering for their deaths just because some people don't like them.
So basically, to wrap the gist of last page up,
...replacing Spirit Healer with other specs is equivalent to replacing any other spec - sad for the people that enjoyed the spec, but not a catastrophe.
None of us are arguing that Spirit Healer is devilspawn, just that it's not the critically important spec that some make it out to be.
How true or untrue the latter boldened bit is kinda depends whether the former is true to the player in question or not?
Quite like this change, to be honest. Harder difficulties in DA:O I was basically forced to bring 2x mages - healer primary & AOE/control primary - so that was two members of my party with no leeway. Maybe this change will mean rogues and warriors would be just as worthwhile in party make-up? That way I could actually bring Sera or Iron Bull along!
...replacing Spirit Healer with other specs is equivalent to replacing any other spec - sad for the people that enjoyed the spec, but not a catastrophe.
None of us are arguing that Spirit Healer is devilspawn, just that it's not the critically important spec that some make it out to be.
It's not about the specialization, at least not for me. I was never that fond of the spec because lore-wise it means you're some kind of light abomination. I'm more annoyed about the apparent removal of the general healing spells that used to fall under the Creation tree.
How true or untrue the latter boldened bit is kinda depends whether the former is true to the player in question or not?
I quite enjoyed playing Spirit Healer. I wasn't so crazy about feeling obliged to take Anders or Wynne with me when I didn't.
Yeah I know, "l2p nub if u gud u no nid healz lawl" but I always struggled a little on harder settings without a healer in the party and I suspect I'm not alone.
I think a system more balanced around damage mitigation skills and buffs, available from a number of different sources rather than one mage spec, is an interesting way to play it if thats the case here.
It means that I have three spare slots in my party instead of two I'm happy with the change.
Indeed. A D&D Cleric was an offensive juggernaut. Arguably to most powerful class at low and middle levels.If we're talking about D&D (since we're using D&D spell names) then healing wasn't actually a substantial portion of what a support class did, even at higher levels.
Indeed. A D&D Cleric was an offensive juggernaut. Arguably to most powerful class at low and middle levels.
Rogue: Hey we've got undead, lots of undead.
Wizard: Well I can work up a cou---
Cleric: Seriously? You know I've got this. Just go identify equipment and check for traps.
*Ten minutes later* All the undead have been dealt with, the Rogue has stolen most of the best loot and the Wizard actually found something he can use for once.
Man, I hate hate HATE what they have done to healing in DAI. I don't want to think tactically, I just want to kill the guys and move on so I can see the story and the characters. I don't want to play super general and have to think about every little move. And its really irritating they have destroyed what made mages so useful.
I feel like I'm always going to play on casual so I don't get stuck spending like a half hour on one fight doing it "tactically". Ugh.
Guest_TrillClinton_*
i would like a spell for healing, that would be helpful even if it was like a once per encounter spell
Man, I hate hate HATE what they have done to healing in DAI. I don't want to think tactically, I just want to kill the guys and move on so I can see the story and the characters. I don't want to play super general and have to think about every little move. And its really irritating they have destroyed what made mages so useful.
I feel like I'm always going to play on casual so I don't get stuck spending like a half hour on one fight doing it "tactically". Ugh.
A mages cc and support/debuff skills is what made mages useful in nightmare. Not their healing spells or even damage spells, since they can outright prevent and mitigate the damage that occurs. Health potions are much more better than healing in general in dragon age origins considering the ease of making them.
i would like a spell for healing, that would be helpful even if it was like a once per encounter spell
I think we get those. I don't think magical, non-item healing is being cut entirely, it's just being de-emphasized.
Did you guys see the twitch stream?
Yes. I saw that Cameron Lee died EPICALLY just a short way into the dungeon. On normal difficulty. His potions were empty...and...NO HEALING!
I assume this would mean he would have to reload and try harder at combat, or quit after a few fights and go back to camp/the keep and reload his potion bag. This is exactly what I was hoping it would NOT be like, and I'm now more worried than ever at this annoying extra step that looks likely.
Hoping more than ever that casual difficulty is 100% easier than normal difficulty. Do. Not. Want. Hard. Combat. 
EDIT: Some reassurance from Mike Laidlaw.
https://twitter.com/...705464323551232
I think we get those. I don't think magical, non-item healing is being cut entirely, it's just being de-emphasized.
Yeah I think that is what they have done.
Man, I hate hate HATE what they have done to healing in DAI. I don't want to think tactically, I just want to kill the guys and move on so I can see the story and the characters. I don't want to play super general and have to think about every little move. And its really irritating they have destroyed what made mages so useful.
I feel like I'm always going to play on casual so I don't get stuck spending like a half hour on one fight doing it "tactically". Ugh.
No offense, but it kind of sounds like you always played on casual anyway.
And its really irritating they have destroyed what made mages so useful.
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