26 réponses à ce sujet

[snyderm]

I am reading the forums and see that people are beating the game on the hardest difficulty, and I just have to shake my head.  I would think that there is something technically wrong with my game.  Dragon Age is the first game I have ever played that is unthinkable to finish on the normal difficulty setting.

I have been playing video games for about 25 years.  In that time, I have never seen a major release that I thought was all that difficult.  Role playing games especially, because they are my favorite type of game.  But I am finding that I cannot continue playing dragon age, because there is just no way to win.

In my current place in the game I am I think level 12.  I have gotten this far with a lot of trial and error, and gritted it out to get about half-way through the game.  I have now come across a place in the game that is completely impossible for me to pass.  I am in the backalleys of the towns (the largest one, can't think of the name) where I encounter a room full of archers, wizards, and fighters.  As soon as I step foot in the room, an archer shoots something that paralyzes my whole party.  Before any of them wake up (about 3 seconds) at least 2 of my party members are dead.  No one else lives another 3 seconds.  Obviously, it can not be accomplished at all.

I have a buddy who hasn't been playing video games for very long at all, who has dragon age and tells me he has beat the game several times.  Astounded, I invite him over to play the game at my house and show me how its done.  Well of course he dies just as quick as I do.  I have him look at my characters, to see if I am doing something wrong, and he doesn't see anything.

I find that I have to simply give up the game, which is a shame because a game of this quality hardly ever gets made.

I wish I could understand what is happening, and why a veteran game player such as myself cannot begin to play this game.  To say its frustrating would be an understatement.

[dkjestrup]

Are you serious?



The back-alleys are hard, I'll give you that, but they're far from unbeatable.



Firstly, does your mage (please tell me you have a mage) have many crowd control spells, or AoE damage spells? (Fireball, Blizzard, Sleep, Glyph of Repulsion, Blood Wound etc). You should use these straight away on the archers.



Secondly, Scattershot, which is what they're using against you, doesn't have infinite range. Spread out your party, and it shouldn't affect all of them.



Have you got any 2h warriors like Sten or Oghren? They can get/have an ability called Indomitable, which makes them immune to stuns or knockdowns, so Scattershot won't do jack.



Have you got any rogues with combat stealth and some ability to use traps? Stealth up to the archers, use sleeping gas traps for example, to disable the archers. Then you can dps them away with either backstabbing or other traps. Does Leliana have Scattershot? If not, why not use it against them?



A properly built tank (be it an Arcane Warrior or a Sns warrior) should survive far more than two seconds. It would be a good idea to have Wynne specced Arcane Warrior, so she can simply survive the scattershot, revive everyone, group heal, and then go to town on the archers before Scattershot comes off of cooldown.



You do realize you can change difficulty at any time right? Casual difficulty is extremely easy, try it if you're still stuck.



This game doesn't even come close to the most difficult game ever made. A properly built, min/max party can completely dominate on Nightmare mode, so much that Soloing the game is the only noteworthy thing to do at the moment (though I have a challenge I'm going to try soon enough).



Please, Contra makes this game look like childs play. And it is, I'm 15.



Even Demon's Souls is harder than this (probably the most overrated difficulty of all time. Awesome game, but easy enough).

[snyderm]

Yeah, I have the witch in the party. But she cant get close enough to cast a spell without getting paralyzed, and then the whole party dies. Every time. I don't get it.



I tested scattershots range. It paralyzes far enough away so that everyone who was within range is long dead before they can get there to attack, so seperating my party doesn't accomplish much.



I have oghren in the party. But again, after scattershot is used, several party members are dead, so the fight is lost before he would have a chance to swing his axe. He is the only one I have with that ability, so I dont think he will last longer than 3 or 4 seconds after everyone else is dead.



I have the assasin in my party, but unfortunetly I don't believe I have anyone who can use traps.



hehe, and yeah I beat contra. But never played demon's soul.



Yeah, I will have to play on easy, and see if its passable then. I usually use a normal difficulty to gauge how well my party is doing. So it would seem that my party is not even remotely close to being properly strong enough.



Again, its not like I am a nooby to games, Baulders gate 1, 2, planescape torment, icewind dale I, II, neverwinter nights, I, 2, mass effect, fantasy wars (known for great difficulty), bioshock, etc are all games I have beaten with just about no challange at all.



Dragon Age is at least 10x tougher than any of them. Which is why I feel so bewildered, like there is something wrong with my game. Bioware doesn't normally do this kind of thing.

[dkjestrup]

Don't worry, it gets easier. I turned the difficulty down lots on my first playthrough. Now nightmare is easy.



Also, level 12-13 is probably the worst time to do those quests. The game is really easy around level 7-8 if you can wear massive armor. At around 12-13 the game has caught up to you, and it's hard. It then gets a lot easier again as you get to higher levels, with better gear, all the important skills for your builds, and pumping your stats is paying off (you have got your requirements for gear and skills, and have pumped your most important stat for the past 5 levels, and it pays off).



Come back at level 17-18 after all the other quests, and it should be easier.

[snyderm]

Interestingly, I just switched the game to nightmare difficulty, and I killed them all by just using my mage. Then I put it back on normal difficulty and died doing the same thing.



Something fishy is going on here!

[Lord Phoebus]

snyderm wrote...
I have been playing video games for about 25 years.  In that time, I have never seen a major release that I thought was all that difficult.  Role playing games especially, because they are my favorite type of game.  But I am finding that I cannot continue playing dragon age, because there is just no way to win.

I'd say Doom II on Nightmare was the hardest game I've ever played.

In my current place in the game I am I think level 12.  I have gotten this far with a lot of trial and error, and gritted it out to get about half-way through the game.  I have now come across a place in the game that is completely impossible for me to pass.  I am in the backalleys of the towns (the largest one, can't think of the name) where I encounter a room full of archers, wizards, and fighters.  As soon as I step foot in the room, an archer shoots something that paralyzes my whole party.  Before any of them wake up (about 3 seconds) at least 2 of my party members are dead.  No one else lives another 3 seconds.  Obviously, it can not be accomplished at all.

Is this the Blood mage hide out?  There are three entrances to the room, if you open the north door or the south door you can pull the mage and the archer out by attacking with a bow and running instead of having to fight them all at once (or hit them with crushing prison or petrify+stonefist).  Once they're dead, you just have to deal with the middle mage and his mercenaries.  If you want to charge the room you either need a character with 100% spell resistance gear who can just walk in and solo it, or you need good crowd control.  If your mages have Mana Clash they can trivialize that fight, sleep+mass paralysis (or glyph explosion, blood wound etc.) should stun the room long enough for your party to eliminate the mages, then you just need to take out the mercenaries.  

I can't offer better advice without knowing your party composition.  You need to find a strategy for this game that works for you and stick to it.  For some general build advice:

For your mages put all your attribute points in magic, don't put any points elsewhere. You want a 16 cunning for skills but you get 5 points in the fade so once you have an 11 cunning you don't need to spend anymore points.  You need at least 2 of the following (sleep+waking nightmare, blood wound, mass paralysis, glyph of paralysis+glyph of repulsion) these are group crowd control spells and really reduce the damage your party takes.  You should also consider Cone of Cold, the Hex line in entropy, Mana Clash and possibly the Crushing Prison line.  You should probably max out either two of the primal lines or one of the primals and the Death Cloud line.  If you're going tor mana clash then max out cold and lightning (well you don't need chain lightning), so you have storm of the century.  If you're maxing out hexes max out the Death Cloud line so you have Entropic Death.

For your warriors get enough strength to use the gear you want (38 should be enough, you can use items to get the 42 you need for massive armor) and put everything else in dexterity.

For your Rogues get enough strength to use the armor you want, get a 30 cunning and put everything else in dexterity.

Dual wield is the best way to fight for a warrior or rogue, there really isn't a style that competes with them.  That isn't to say that the others aren't viable, but if you want an easy time dual wield.

Don't put any points in constitution or willpower, you just won't see the returns.

NB: I've been assuming you're playing on the PC with the game fully patched.

[snyderm]

Yes, I am in the blood mage hideout. Exactly the room you describe. Dual wielding fighter is my main guy. I usually use allister, the whitch, and lillian.



Curiously, there doesn't seem to be much difference in difficulty in nightmare mode and normal. Thats just probably because the only way I win is to take advantage of the AI not reacting very well. Its just coincidence that I happened to win once by using tempest storms.



Thanks for your input. hehe, I beat doom 2, but I don't remember what difficulty I was playing

[x-president]

dkjestrup wrote...
come back at level 17-18 after all the other quests, and it should be easier.

Yea, leave and come back.  I did that a lot on my first game and even sometimes on my other playthroughs.  That abandoned building section is tough but not unbeatable.

Try and bait the melee fighters out or whoever will leave.  Set your own trap of guys waiting around the corner.

[krsboss]

...IMO possibly the hardest battle in the game is the blood mage hideout in Denerim (deserted building / the last request)...the room with the 2 standard bloodmage & elite bloodmage w. archers & melee...



...I have to try at least a couple of times on every playthrough I've done...though typically I'm heading there around level 10-15...I guess with full gear it would be easier....but you can always 'pull' a couple of the enemies away to make the fight easier...if you hide your party back by the grease trap, then take a solo character to one of the side-doors, get aggro, then run back to your party, your unlikely to encounter the whole of them!

[Aezeal]

I found the alleys hard with my 2 full party runs.. my latest solo nightmare run.. I just did them all in one try. Mostly due to great equipment.



Another tip: don't save to much items that seem like they might be nice sometimes. Just sell the lot (as I did in my solo run) and buy the REAL good items. (lifegiver, belt of andruil, top end weapons if you can wield them already)



Ow and use your flask etc if needed.



Between nightmare and normal I think the difference is that you get more party damage, enemies have more resistances, I don't think they get bonusses on the more important points like HP or att/def. (more important if yuo try to melee them) and you get less healing yourself. All differneces are not THAT big (except friendly fire) though so nightmare and normal... to me plays NEARLY the same. see http://dragonage.wik...iculty_Settings

on there is says this too : The difficulty setting can be changed at any time and will immediately affect the current situation. Limitations or restrictions in AI include prioritization of abilities, targets, group tactics, etc. They don't alter enemy stats like hitpoints, for example.



well I've not noticed much difference in tactics.. they use that annoyign scattershot anyway



in a link on there I came to a page http://dragonage.gul...allenge_scaling



that says : Some encounters spawn different enemy numbers based on difficulty as well.

I've not seen anything like this that has really been noticable though.

[lessthanjake9]

You're in the blood mage hideout. That battle is very hard.But it is not too hard when you realize you can lure enemies away.

There are three doors. Leave your party on hold position considerably further back in the hallway. Go forwards with one party member and get the attention of the enemies standing near one of the side doors. Ideally this will be done by a character who can use stealth, as he can open the door, and then walk far enough away from the door before unstealthing that enemies wont be able to catch him or hit him with arrows as he runs. Run away immediately once they see you, so that the enemies near the door follow you. Run back towards your party. Ambush the enemies with the rest of your party as they follow your scout. Do the same thing with the other side door. At this point, the fight in the room will not be overwhelming. You should be able to win from there. In between these three engagements of the guys in that room, you can even run far enough back down the hallway that your stamina and health regenerate.

Using this tactic, you can kill the enemies piecemeal.

This is how you need to do some battles in this game. Utilize a scout who can draw stragglers away from a main horde of enemies. This works best with a rogue who has stealth and can lay down traps for the ambush, but you can do it no matter what.

Other tips:
- Get Cone of Cold. It is GREAT crowd control.
- Mana Clash totally trivializes mage battles
- Use taunt with your tank to draw aggro and then cast Force Field on him. All the enemies will attack your tank but do no damage while you kill them.
- You want to have a mage healer with you at all times. You might not have gotten that character yet, which naturally results in battles being more difficult. Thus, you should go to the Mage's Tower, if you havent already done so. Either that or give Morrigan Heal.
- Use combos. Particularly, Shattering is absolutely vital in tough battles against mobs of enemies.

Modifié par lessthanjake9, 24 janvier 2010 - 10:51 .

[snyderm]

Thanks for treating me seriously everyone. I was posting rather frustrated last night when I made this post. Its a great game, but I am just not used to having to play a role playing game at a slow pace, like it is required to get through this game.



I think perhaps bioware has done a decent thing with the difficulty in this game. In neverwinter nights for instance, you just blow through the whole thing without having to think what you are doing.

[Ingahootz]

Actually the hardest game ever made is clearly Tetris. This game does not compare to Tetris' difficult game play mechanics and complex strategy.

Modifié par Ingahootz, 24 janvier 2010 - 04:49 .

[Bullets McDeath]

Monkey Target from the original Super Monkey Ball for GC, that was the most difficult game ever made. DA:O has a steep learning curve but is actually ludicrously easy once you know what you're doing. Like, shameful easy. Just keep on truckin'.

[Dark Secret]

If I ever find a difficult, normal mob fight I:

Flag my party around the nearest corner, out of combat range.

Stealth lvl 4 my rogue to go up, open the door/trigger combat.

Use pause to tag my party into a reasonable position; e.g. Mage at back, then archer, then stealth rogue:

Then switch on the most effective defense abilities I have on my tank and go up and grab aggro from the smallest number of enemies possible.

...Work my way on from there.

And if I REALLY have trouble, I'll nuke the area around my tank with grenades and spells whilst letting my tank just scoff Health Poultices...

[GeorgeZip]

Since you're on your first playthrough, an unrelated tip. Don't neglect the Coersion skill like I did. It will improve your dialogue choices.



Some general tips:

-scout with a rogue,

-don't be reluctant to retreat around a corner. This will hide you from archers and make them clump up when they chase.

-get a few crowd control spells. Morrigan can get sleep and the mass confusion spell early. These can be cast over walls usually.

[EzraMichael]

I read your dilemma and skipped what everyone wrote, so I could be wasting my time...are you referring to the last request quest with all the bloodmages in the deserted building in the back alleys of Denerim? If you are I completely understand that is one of the hardest quests I have come acrross yet. The part where there are three doors leading into the same room with oil slicks and stuff? or even before then it's rough. I know a great strategy for beating that part if you're iterested.

[snyderm]

Yeah, that was were I was complaining. Part of my problem was that I needed to start over to fix how I screwed up a couple of characters, and then get a better trained balanced party. Heh, I am finding the game can be really tough at the very begining before you get any real skills, too.



Ill just have to do better

[Phoenix Swordsinger]

snyderm wrote...

Thanks for treating me seriously everyone. I was posting rather frustrated last night when I made this post. Its a great game, but I am just not used to having to play a role playing game at a slow pace, like it is required to get through this game.

I think perhaps bioware has done a decent thing with the difficulty in this game. In neverwinter nights for instance, you just blow through the whole thing without having to think what you are doing.

Did you get hte 1.02 patch? apparently there was a bug for normal mode which made the bad guys way above your level. That helped me out.
I've not tried on nightmare yet... I'm a bit afraid....

[Dlokir]

snyderm wrote...

Yeah, that was were I was complaining. Part of my problem was that I needed to start over to fix how I screwed up a couple of characters, and then get a better trained balanced party. Heh, I am finding the game can be really tough at the very begining before you get any real skills, too.

Ill just have to do better

I don't think you need restart, I also had none of the spells and talents describe here, because of a lack of knowledge of the game.

Check the first half of lessthanjake9 post. He gives a tactic you could (in theory) apply without any special talent but a character with stealth high enough. If you don't even have that you could try the same tactic but instead of using a stealth character use a 2H character with Indomitable and try apply the same tactic with a far healer that will flee right after some healing support to the 2H. This will be harder than with a high stealth character but this can work the same. To improve the same tactic you could use some traps before openning the door.

If you can't make it, then read advices involving learning talents/spells or buy items. Leave, level up multiple time and take care to buy the right stuff and learn the right skills and come back, I doubt you have screw up all your characters at level 12/13/14.

The difficulty of the game is nice and that's a change with many of the modern AAA RPG. It's not too rude but perhaps for few fights.

The difficulty is not only about character building management, even if that's this point that makes much more easy a replay. It's also a lot because it's a new system, and there's many tricks to find and learn and not only from character building point of view but also from a fight tactics and fight management point of view. One advice don't underestimate abuse of pause and take your time to think for managing the rudest fights.

EDIT:
Just playing the blood mage area, 2 two-hands warriors (Sten and my warrior), leliana and Wyne, Wynne and my character are level 14, the other level 13, very exciting, I'll see. First little area already been hot but done with an all out assault.... Well I'll have to make it more subtle on next fights.

Few more quotes I think not highlighted yet:

• Mage enemies seems cast spells through walls and they did. It's not cheating you can use the same, you only need have open an area and use the tactical view. You can exploit well the use of this at your adventage, for example Wynne earthquake could be a nice trick to use in many of those fights.
• Another good point is to let your mage one room back, he could continue cast spells support through walls. Think of glyph spells if you have any.
• To open door with a non stealth character it's possible, you can open a door without to be in front of the opening. There's still a huge difference when fleeing to attract some enemie.

Modifié par Dlokir, 25 janvier 2010 - 04:41 .

[Marso40]

Lots of good advice here. I'd summarize it with two comments:



1. Mana clash for enemy spellcasters.



2. Divide and conquer is a winning tactic in this game.

[Wratheric]

Oh what consoles have done to people.... DAO... hard.... lol... try the original Price on Persia, nightmare quake and doom ii etc. That's hard, this is easy with a sugar on the top



Like others said leave and do something else, lower difficulty or just restart and build a better party

[Wompoo]

There are fights in BG2 that make any level of difficulty in DAO look simple... so no comparison there. Play on easy till you catch up, but honestly this game isn't hard, have you patched to to 1.02?

[Dlokir]

Wratheric wrote...
...
Like others said... or just restart and build a better party

Well a bit easy and not necessary I think, I just made it with 2 Two-Handed Warriors, Wynne and Leliana, levels 13/14. Well Hard difficulty but I doubt it is easier than normal difficulty. 

Well in the quoted fight Sten died before the end and I had finish without him but it worked fine. Well almost, succeed divide the enemies near right door including the mage. But when I tried left door it didn't work as well and all came. Retreat with Wynne and Leliana as my warrior killed the second mage and Sten was taking busy the yellow mage. Wynne trying mix support and fleeing but the key at this moment was certainly using the Wynne Earthquake. The two 2H warriors was resisting much better than any other and Wynne and Leliana was out of range of the earthquake quite soon.

At this point there was only left the yellow mage, 2/3 archer and 1/2 rogues. I continue with feeliing and ambushes and get them all during the flee. Sten was left dying back.

EDIT: For mention 1.02 version.

Modifié par Dlokir, 25 janvier 2010 - 06:10 .

[soteria]

Wait, what fight was hard in BG2? Not Kangaxx. The dragons were certainly no harder than the ones in DA:O. Beholders were a pain unless you had a shield of beholder cheesing. Illithids generally die to backstabs... Big Bad you could either wait out his spell protections or just drop a few traps and insta-gib him. Only fight I *really* thought was hard was the one with the demon lord in TOB.