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Does Anyone Like Anders?


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#401
b10d1v

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I liked him in Awakening. I always thought his anger was justified, right up till he decided to blow up the chantry. After that, nope. Killed him right then and there, and in all honesty, I wished Hawke had used the murder knife in a more spectacular fashion than just poking it into his back. Guy ruined everything.

Exactly, he is very helpful when you first meet him and you knew that the spirit of justice was failing at the end of awakenings and that Anders wished to help out.  I also thought I told him to keep the cat, but its been awhile since I played any content - probably distracted by leliana :) .  In DA2 he's doing good deeds, so it would seem that the pardon in Ferelden was well justified and any templars you fight are mostly corrupt seemingly using the tranquil as sex slaves among other things.  The language seemed like the vow of celibacy was broken!  Anders also sells a good story that he needs to free justice from his corruptive influence and he knew you would stop him -hence the deception.  Anders was right the cost was too high and I would have stopped him and possibly found another way.  I think Bethany was sweet on Sebastion by then, so Hawke killed Anders.



#402
Who Knows

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Well, according to Xilizhra, anyway. I don't remember seeing it myself in-game.



#403
b10d1v

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Some of Anders comments to Isabella are also priceless!



#404
DarqAngyl

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I loved Anders In Dragon Age Origins: Awakening...Not so much in Dragon Age 2...lost the funny in his quest to be the ultimate Apostate.



#405
TogaedVermin

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I chose to keep him alive in DA2, I felt kind of sorry for him and im all for the mages! We will overthrow the templars and lock them up in towers like they did with us!



#406
Xilizhra

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Well, according to Xilizhra, anyway. I don't remember seeing it myself in-game.

You have to keep Ser Karras alive, so it's understandable that many wouldn't have seen it.



#407
Who Knows

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You have to keep Ser Karras alive, so it's understandable that many wouldn't have seen it.

Yes, he's always dead for me.



#408
Cat Firebrand

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I felt sorry for him. Broke my heart the first playthru, because I loved his character in Awakening. But his all or nothing approach drives me crazy. He chastises Hawke again and again for not siding with the mages, even if everything you do is on the side of the mages. I've gotten to the point where I can't stand him, which again makes me sad.

 

Though honestly, Varric was the only male companion I liked. But hey, it's great that there are so many different characters for us to love or hate as we choose!



#409
MissOuJ

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No, she was not. 

She wanted more restrictions towards mages - yes. She suspected Orsino of hiding Blood Mages and possibly being corrupted himself and rightly so. But she didn't want to kill them all - provoking her is on Anders' hands. Starting this war is on Anders' hands. Hundreds killed - Mages, Templars and civilians alike - that too is on Anders' hands. 

He was so blinded by the ideas of "freedom" that he didn't realize that freedom isn't the same thing for everyone - and that some may value peace higher than freedom. But in his arrogance, he felt that HE of all people was qualified to make this decision for all mages in Kirkwall Circle.

That's very ironic - he spoke of freedom, yet he forced the fate he chose on everyone. 

 

Yes, she actually was. Karras' dialogue in Act 3 confirms it. I don't remember the exact wording, but it's something along the lines of "Knight-Commander has sent for Val Royeaux for the Rite of Annulment. The robes are going to get what's coming for them. Soon." [the last two sentences I remember really well, because they were rather chilling in their enthusiasm]. This is also evident in the way she acts after the Chantry explosion: she says the Grand Cleric has been "slain by magic" (not: an apostate with no ties to the Circle who just admitted doing it), and calls for the Rite. On the Circle that had nothing to do with the explosion. Which is trying - desperatedly - to work with her after Anders' little bonfire (Orsino says: "Search the Tower, I'll even help you. But don't judge us all for an act we did not commit." Meredith is like "... Nah. I'd rather just kill you all.")

 

She has the culprit right there. And she decides to do nothing about it because she'd rather get rid of the Circle (plural) than Anders.

 

It's quite clear she has lost her head ages ago. The only person who could've done something about Meredith was Elthina, and she chose not to. She not doing her job and governing the Templars is what led to mages being terrorized in the Gallows. Anders couldn't get to Meredith or the Templars in general because their headquarters are in the Gallows along with the mages, but he could do something about Elthina. And that's why he blew up the Chantry and not the Templar barracks, for example.

 

Also I kinda wonder how Anders chose anyone's fate for them: he just gave them a new option. Every mage in the Gallows was going to die either way (Meredith was pretty insistent on that Annulment): Anders just gave them the option to fight and liberate themselves. He proved them one crucial fact: that in the large scheme of things, their innocense of guilt is irrelevent, that their lives are in the hands of the Templars, and if the "situation" demands it their heads will roll, no matter what they have or haven't done ("The people will demand blood" is Meredith's justification). Again, if the situation hadn't been that bad in the other Circles, the mages there wouldn't have had any reason whatsoever to join this rebellion or associate with it in any way, shape or form. If Anders hadn't had any cause and there'd been no need for his actions, there wouldn't have been a reaction at all. All the other circles who rose up either

  1. because the mages there were attacked first by the Templars after the Kirkwall Rebellion because the Templars thought offence was the best defence, or
  2. because the life in the other Circles is not all fun and games and the mages (or majority of them) chose freedom over the Chantry. (Actually they even voted to leave the Chantry in Asunder, and although that vote didn't go down in the best of circumstances [understatement].)

And: if the Templars and the Chantry had taken his and the other mages' complaints seriously (as in, look into how the Circle operates when they found out that one of the Templars had been abusing the Rite of Tranquility to build his own private harem!) and had dealed with them, Anders wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.

 

Bolded part: yes, that's exactly the point. DA2 is a story which ask which you value higher: authority (and safety/order) or freedom (chaos). It's about the balance between individual rights and the common good, and what freedoms (and, what people) are we willing to sacrifice to archieve what we deem the perfect balance. "Is submission not preferable to extinction?" Agree, disagree? To what degree? Who is allowd freedom, who's not? Under which conditions and rules? Who makes those rules and gets to decide how free you are, or aren't? Should we be able to punish pre-emptively to protect the possible victims? We see both what the mages are capable of and the measures Templars take to "keep the mages and the general population safe", and we're asked: is this too much? Not enough? Who's in the right? There's a lot going on under DA2's hood.

 

EDIT: Woah, this was not supposed to be this long! Sorry about the massive TL;DR Wall of Text.


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#410
sylvanaerie

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Yes, he's always dead for me.

yea, he's bit the farm on a number of playthroughs for me too.  Sometimes I have Varric pull the ole' bait and switch (gains friendship to let him stretch his story teller muscles), but usually I just kill him.


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#411
aclockworkrobot

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I can see, at times, why Anders is the way he is. I enjoy him greatly in Awakening, but his character did kind of turn into more of a whiny-moan-and-groan type in Dragon Age 2. I romanced him once, and I did enjoy the way it played out as it seemed to cause him to be more straightforward and less whiny with Hawke. Generally, as a rule, I avoid him unless I know for a fact I'll need a healer. I find it sad, because he was quite witty in DAO: Awakening and I just felt like he lost that in DA2.

 

I feel like Anders doesn't, in reality, see what is right and wrong but only believes what he feels is correct and that anyone who does not agree with him is standing in his way or is wrong. 



#412
Lord Raijin

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Well said, MissOuJ, well said. This is why I always support the mages, and never give the murder knife to Anders.



#413
alexasasabo

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Anders in DAO Awakening is funny and I took him often only becauze of comments, but Anders ind DA2 is just, OH GOD DAMN IT, HE IS SUCH A WINY CHILD :angry: :angry: :angry:



#414
Who Knows

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Every mage in the Gallows was going to die either way (Meredith was pretty insistent on that Annulment):

There was a chance that Meredith's request to the Divine would be accepted, but there was no guarantee. Also, Anders doesn't necessarily know of Meredith's plan.



#415
krmlivingood

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I like Anders

He is a more complex character that most realize and I respect his story, If I lived in the dragon age world for real I would most likely be like Anders.

I like Fenris as well but when I played DA2 as a character that Fenris would fall for, at the end it was horrible what I had to do to Anders and I felt really bad about it, all for the love of the game, and the multiple experiences.

Allthough Anders in DA2 turns to basically terrorism, and as others have mentioned the politics involved in his story shades his personality, he is passionate, beautiful and for me personally when he loses control and justices powers shines through it is hot.



#416
Aeryn88

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I like Anders, and feel really bad for him. He had the best intentions, wanting to protect mages, but he took it way too far (understatement). Maybe because of Justice? Or maybe his bond with Justice brought out the darker side in him, tainting them both? I think he may have said at some point that his own anger corrupted Justice? Either way, the ends don't justify the means, what he did in the end was wrong, and he knew it, and he was so twisted up by that point that he didn't seem to feel much, if any, remorse. He was a really well done tragic kind of anti-hero, and I can appreciate that he made me feel something - lol, mainly anger and sadness, but that's still an accomplishment with any story I think. He's not my favorite character, just because I can't understand his actions at all, but I do kind of hope he shows up somewhere in Inquisition, trying to make things right somehow, or at least better.



#417
MissOuJ

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There was a chance that Meredith's request to the Divine would be accepted, but there was no guarantee. Also, Anders doesn't necessarily know of Meredith's plan.

 

But Meredith's intent was clear, and if Anders proved anything, it was that Meredith wasn't looking for a reason but for an excuse. The fact that she moves to Annul the Circle after the Chantry is destroyed is proof of that: everyone on that scene knew exactly who was behind the blast, Anders made sure of that. The Circle wasn't implicated in any way, but she called for the Annulment anyway. Whether of not the request would've been approved (and I doubt it would've been, since the new Divine is relatively pro-mage / pro-Circle) is a moot point: the fact that Meredith was actively pursuing it for no explainable reason whatsoever is the point here, and a clear indicator of her intentions.

 

As to wether or not Anders knew about this thing specificly... you're right, it's possible that he didn't. It's also possible that he did: he had close contacts in the Gallows through the Mage Underground when it still existed, and it's just as possible that he got some really disturbing news during the last days of the Underground. Also he seems to be pretty knowledgeable about the Tempar's business, since his dialogue indicates that he knows there's been some infighting inside the Order.

 

But even if Anders went in with his plan just because "he had a hunch", that was one damn good hunch, because he was 110% correct.



#418
Deanna

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Well I just stumbled upon this today and have to say I am SO glad to see that other people like Anders as well. From facebook and YouTube I see so many Anders haters. He's whiney yes but so is Fenris about being a slave. He's an abomination? Eh iffy. Wynne was possessed by a spirit of Faith, is she an abomination? Don't think so. Also when Wynne asks the warden she wonders if an abomination can be cured and the warden can say 'if one retains their humanity, one is truly not an abomination' and Anders despite losing control still has his humanity, he is still very much human. He is my favorite character in awakening and DA2 and I romance him almost every time I play. I feel his story is beautifully tragic. I've tried to like and romance Fenris but his hatred for mages leaves a bad taste in my mouth, I always get his rivalry even if I'm trying to be nice to him. And I do agree with Anders's actions at the end, every war has casualties and the mage/templar war was and is inevitable even if he blew up the chantry or not. I just can't bring myself to hate Anders no matter what he does, even if he does deceive Hawke but I feel that makes their romance more 'real'.

#419
Ryriena

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But Meredith's intent was clear, and if Anders proved anything, it was that Meredith wasn't looking for a reason but for an excuse. The fact that she moves to Annul the Circle after the Chantry is destroyed is proof of that: everyone on that scene knew exactly who was behind the blast, Anders made sure of that. The Circle wasn't implicated in any way, but she called for the Annulment anyway. Whether of not the request would've been approved (and I doubt it would've been, since the new Divine is relatively pro-mage / pro-Circle) is a moot point: the fact that Meredith was actively pursuing it for no explainable reason whatsoever is the point here, and a clear indicator of her intentions.

As to wether or not Anders knew about this thing specificly... you're right, it's possible that he didn't. It's also possible that he did: he had close contacts in the Gallows through the Mage Underground when it still existed, and it's just as possible that he got some really disturbing news during the last days of the Underground. Also he seems to be pretty knowledgeable about the Tempar's business, since his dialogue indicates that he knows there's been some infighting inside the Order.

But even if Anders went in with his plan just because "he had a hunch", that was one damn good hunch, because he was 110% correct.


In other words his hunches were like Gibbs from NCIS never wrong or he just felt it in his gut. :P

#420
HiroVoid

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Eh.  General reaction from people I've talked to who played the game, but don't go on message boards all over the place and follow it is that they dislike him, but not really hate.  This is more due to the latter acts anyway.  I'd probably guess most still let him live anyway since most don't want to get rid of a party member, and a healer's pretty valuable.



#421
Bigdoser

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Anders horrible action kinda proves a point so to speak. I rather like the guy myself do I support him eeeeh yes and no. 



#422
VikingDream

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IMHO anders in DAO/A was way better then in DA2 hes a loveable rouge in DAO/A but in DA2 he became a total tool and preached far to much for my liking lol



#423
Mission

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I only like him when he's hanging around with ogren



#424
sylvanaerie

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I will say this.  My first few times running through I tried to befriend him, I really did, but I didn't enjoy having him in my groups.  All the constant sniping and whining wore me down.  

 

Then I decided to just go ahead and Rival him.  Anders became 10000 times more interesting than 'friended'.  I gained new insights into his struggle to maintain his humanity.  And for the first time (on my aggressive mage, William Hawke) I was able to actually say it was a 'mercy killing'.

 

Even better, there is a line for rivaled Anders you don't get for befriended that really resolved the relationship for me, and added closure. 

 

Hawke can tell Anders right before stabbing him, "I forgive you."

 

There is a peace between Hawke and him at that moment.  Anders accepts what you are doing, and tells you, "You should have done this a long time ago."

 

This was the subject of the only DA2 fanfic I wrote.



#425
Ryriena

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^ can you link me the fic? Would love too read it!