833 réponses à ce sujet

[Lucky Thirteen]

Except Anders isn't a dog, he's a human being who's fully capable of making his own damned decisions using thoughts and reason instead blindly following his own instincts and feelings.

 

"Hey Templars! Totally your fault that this appostate mage who knew nothing about what was actually happening in the circle and condemned pretty much every other mage that escaped because they were desperate enough to try blood magic blew up that church full of innocent people. I mean, we totally support his actions, even though he started a battle that led to the deaths of hundreds of our people, including those who didn't even want to fight, because he didn't realize that the Templars could take out our shrinking population of mages. Totally supported his actions, despite the fact that there was a chance for peace after all. Totally your fault that the chantry got blown to bits though."

 

I'm pretty sure neither Orsino or Meredith was happy with Anders when that went down.

 

The Chantry has its problems, but it by no means condoned the actions of the Templars. In fact, Anders blew up the Chantry because it was actually going to go and do something that would be helpful. It may have sat on its hands, but it wasn't without just cause.

 

And if you're going to blame the Chantry, then you might as well blame the entirety of Kirkwall; one person alone did not uphold the countless atrocities against the mages, after all. Kirkwall entirely deserved to be thrown to all hell as Templars and Mages started beating the **** out of each other. Everybody in Kirkwall had it coming.

 

Except no. They didn't.

 

1. How about this for a better comparison. Keep beating your spouse every day. Either they continue to do nothing till you kill them, or they snap and they kill you. Either way, dogs or people, respecting them like living being with rights wins over physically assaulting day in and day out. People can take only so much before they snap and act out. If all they know is violence, that's all they will give. 

 

2. Anders was a circle mage who passed his Harrowing. He was apart of the circle for a good portion of his life. He communicated with mages in the Kirkwall circle. He knows exactly what happens in the circles. 

 

3. The Chantry completely condones the actions of the templars. They control the templars, they feed the templars lyrium, and they don't do much of anything to stop them. At the most, they will do a small slap on the wrist to look good to the public if such things are allowed to get to the public's ears. Before Bioware decided to change Cullen, he could murder 3 mages and he got put on the equivalent of a paid leave of absence for a while. Then was transferred to another Circle. He was pretty much a serial killer who got off free. How much you want to bet that kind of thing happens a lot in the circles and everything gets swept under the rug by the Chantry just to protect the way things are.

 

4. No, you can't blame anyone else in Kirkwall, but the rich nobles. You can only blame the people in power. People who have the power and the wealth to change things and continue to do nothing while the people without power and wealth suffer. You can play around the game as Hawke who is in the position of a noble, and support change and support helping mages, but unless Hawke can get all the other nobles on board, it's not going to happen. Hawke may have saved all their butts from the Qunari, but their butts are now saved and they don't want to change a thing because their butts are comfortable where they are.

 

You could have a Martin Luther King or Mahatma Gandhi in the Kirkwall circle, they could do all the peaceful protests and starve themselves every day. All that would happen is a massacre of mages. All the public would hear about it is that all the mages turned to blood magic and had to be killed, easy to believe after what happened in the Circle Tower in Fereldan. Which lucky for the Circle Tower, the Warden has the power and influence to potentially save the innocent ones. All the innocent mages who didn't want to fight but wanted to change things peacefully can be quickly silenced, made tranquil and murdered and all evidence of their innocence would very easily erased.

[actionhero112]

He blew up the chantry. He was an alright dude outside of that. 

 

I guess it depends on if you think the ends justify the means. If he stops the oppression of mages by the chantry, who knows how many lives he's changed for the better. Is that worth the lives lost at the chantry? I don't know if I or anyone else can answer that. 

 

He certainly thought it was his only option. It was justice in his eyes, but wrath in another's.

[Helmetto]

1. How about this for a better comparison. Keep beating your spouse every day. Either they continue to do nothing till you kill them, or they snap and they kill you. Either way, dogs or people, respecting them like living being with rights wins over physically assaulting day in and day out. People can take only so much before they snap and act out. If all they know is violence, that's all they will give. 

 

2. Anders was a circle mage who passed his Harrowing. He was apart of the circle for a good portion of his life. He communicated with mages in the Kirkwall circle. He knows exactly what happens in the circles. 

 

3. The Chantry completely condones the actions of the templars. They control the templars, they feed the templars lyrium, and they don't do much of anything to stop them. At the most, they will do a small slap on the wrist to look good to the public if such things are allowed to get to the public's ears. Before Bioware decided to change Cullen, he could murder 3 mages and he got put on the equivalent of a paid leave of absence for a while. Then was transferred to another Circle. He was pretty much a serial killer who got off free. How much you want to bet that kind of thing happens a lot in the circles and everything gets swept under the rug by the Chantry just to protect the way things are.

 

4. No, you can't blame anyone else in Kirkwall, but the rich nobles. You can only blame the people in power. People who have the power and the wealth to change things and continue to do nothing while the people without power and wealth suffer. You can play around the game as Hawke who is in the position of a noble, and support change and support helping mages, but unless Hawke can get all the other nobles on board, it's not going to happen. Hawke may have saved all their butts from the Qunari, but their butts are now saved and they don't want to change a thing because their butts are comfortable where they are.

 

You could have a Martin Luther King or Mahatma Gandhi in the Kirkwall circle, they could do all the peaceful protests and starve themselves every day. All that would happen is a massacre of mages. All the public would hear about it is that all the mages turned to blood magic and had to be killed, easy to believe after what happened in the Circle Tower in Fereldan. Which lucky for the Circle Tower, the Warden has the power and influence to potentially save the innocent ones. All the innocent mages who didn't want to fight but wanted to change things peacefully can be quickly silenced, made tranquil and murdered and all evidence of their innocence would very easily erased.

1. I’m sorry, but I didn’t hear that the solution to spousal abuse is up and up murder. Except wait, ****, that’s not actually a good solution to a problem, or any problem. The solution to being beat up is not to beat the person responsible. If the world operated on an “eye-for-an-eye,” not only would we have a lot of dead people on our hands, but we would never truly reach justice on any level. If a person is willing to murder someone and live up to the consequences, good for them, but that doesn’t change the fact that it makes them morally deviant, because they not only acknowledge their actions as wrong, but they did their actions anyway. That sure shits on the point of punishment and justice, don’t it, considering that it’s a concept meant to teach empathy.

 

2. Anders was apart of the Fereldan Circle (where WYNNE comes from and the same circle the HoF can OPT to save), not the Kirkwall circle, and if I have learned anything, Circle life is different from circle to circle. Not only that, but he deliberately broke rules and ran away several times, and it was only out of First Enchanter Irving’s good graces that he didn’t get tranquiled. He didn’t even give circle life a chance. He saw only a lack of freedom and repeatedly rejected it until one day, he finally got away. The only thing Anders understands about Circle life is that they were locked in a tower all day, because that was the only part he ever focused on.

 

3. Except no, they don’t. The Chantry never condoned the actions of Meredith and kept her from up and up murdering all the mages from the very start. The Chantry may teach its Templars, and supply them with lyrium as to keep them loyal to them, but Templars are their own organization, which was why they pretty easily broke away from the Chantry in the first place.

 

4. That’s bullshit. The entire narrative of every Dragon Age game is about someone who goes from the very bottom of the barrel to top dog. Sure, some luck involved, but to say that every poor person in Kirkwall was incapable of doing anything at all to help the situation is to ignore all the people who actively did try and possibly succeeded in doing so. You don’t always need to be in a position of power to fix things. You don’t always need money to fix things. I don’t need to be God to fix all my problems, nor do I need to be in God’s seat to help others.

 

Weren’t there a shitton of sidequests where normal people tried to help mages, including Hawke prior to become rich and fabulous? Did Hawke even really use his/her status at all to help these people? The answer is: no. No, all move ever really did was get Hawke more noticed.

 

And, again, Templar abuse is bad. But that in no way makes what Anders did right. He killed innocent people for a situation that the Kirkwall mages themselves helped create. Are we just going to ignore all the blood magic **** that happened at Kirkwall, regardless of whether or not you side with the mages?

 

The war that occurred afterwards never solved anything either.

[Natureguy85]

I find him to be at tragic figure because of the fact the world itself has driven him to this. You can't walk two steps around the gallows without hearing about the rape and assault done to mages. You can't walk two steps without hearing about mages being made tranquil for no apparent reason other than they are easier to rape and assault then. You can't take two steps without hearing templars talking about mages not being people. The kirkwall circle was probably the pits worse of the worse, but it simply had everything wrong with the circles in one place.

 

I don't condone what Anders did, he killed innocent people, but I see what he did as a response to what the world did to him.

 

The Chantry has the power to change things, but despite many peaceful attempts by the mages for help, the Chantry continues to look the other way and ignore the fact there are innocent lives being murdered, abused, and raped daily in the circles. No instead, the Chantry keeps willfully, purposely feeding the Templars mind altering, addictive, lyrium that is probably the exact reason the Templars are aggressive, paranoid, and out of control drug addicts who easily succumb to the temptation of red lyrium.

 

There were innocent people killed by what Anders did, but if you ask me between the mages and templars, the Chantry has a hell of a lot more innocent blood on it's hands. Violence creates more violence, the Chantry started the violence.

 

If you keep beating a dog, some day they will snap and rip into someone's face. Either it's you, your family, or some neighborhood kid that had nothing to do with it. Then who's really at fault, the dog or you for beating that dog every day of their life. 

 

Except he didn't go after the people responsible. He sparked the war, but didn't hurt his enemy. He just made them mad. He had no reason to think this would spark anything outside of Kirkwall. He didn't expose the corruption of the Kirkwall Circle. Had this ended with the Annulment of the Circle, the outside world might have seen it as justified.

[Tup3x]

Everyone I've met has called Anders a "whiny *****" and disliked him intensely. They say a lot of other things wrong with Dragon Age 2 but I don't tend to notice. I romance him on my Male Hawkes all the time, I can't stand Fenris so Anders is really my only option. Anyone else like him?

At the moment I have one Hawke (female rogue and by the looks of it she will stay as my only Hawke) and she put knife between his spine. Ungrateful, whiny little piece of ..... She even helped him but didn't want to take part in Anders' crazy scheme and apparently she was pretty much dead to him after that. So much about friendship...

 

I pretty much hated all characters in DA2 except Varric, Bethany and Aveline (and of course Hawke). My Hawke had no LI - all the options were just mentally unstable.

[Eyes_Only]

I liked Anders in Awakening when he was introduced. I sympathized with him and helped him. When it came to DA2 I wish he had at least trusted my mage characters more. Some of them might have even helped him blow the chantry up.

 

The Templars abuse and misuse mages. They control them as if they were slaves. The Templars answer to the Chantry which knows EXACTLY what the Templars are doing. or they turn a blind eye to it. This to me means the Chantry is just as corrupt and is using religion to control the lives of people. Did Anders do the right thing? I will say that he did. It pushed everyone into fully accepting what many were choosing to ignore.

 

So I like Anders. he took the hard road knowing the costs but felt the ends justified the means. It cost lives but at the same time it meant the world could no longer ignore the plight of mages under the crushing fist of the Templars controlled by a chantry that refused to step in. The biggest issue is that the chantry had stopped seeing mages as humans who had just as much right to life as anyone else.

 

The chantry got what I deserved.

[Paragonslustre]

I did like him and I played first as a mage and then a warrior, I romanced him both times.  But, from the dialogue I always knew it wasn't going to end well and although it wasn't what I expected I'd invested too much in what I believed was right for the mages.  I did feel a kind of sorrow, especially when he tells you quite clearly all the way through that, as much as he loves you, he has a purpose and that purpose is more important than what you both have together, some things are more important than love after all.  It was my choice to continue so I can't hate the guy, he kept telling me, my fault if I can't take the hint!  Could I kill him at the end, no.  Was what he did justifiable?  I don't know because thank the Maker, I've never been in that kind of position in my life.

[Helmetto]

I liked Anders in Awakening when he was introduced. I sympathized with him and helped him. When it came to DA2 I wish he had at least trusted my mage characters more. Some of them might have even helped him blow the chantry up.

 

The Templars abuse and misuse mages. They control them as if they were slaves. The Templars answer to the Chantry which knows EXACTLY what the Templars are doing. or they turn a blind eye to it. This to me means the Chantry is just as corrupt and is using religion to control the lives of people. Did Anders do the right thing? I will say that he did. It pushed everyone into fully accepting what many were choosing to ignore.

 

So I like Anders. he took the hard road knowing the costs but felt the ends justified the means. It cost lives but at the same time it meant the world could no longer ignore the plight of mages under the crushing fist of the Templars controlled by a chantry that refused to step in. The biggest issue is that the chantry had stopped seeing mages as humans who had just as much right to life as anyone else.

 

The chantry got what I deserved.

 

Please, point me to some currupt chantry folk, because the only Chantry folk that I've ever seen are either misguided but well meaning, or well meaning and not-so-misguided. Even Cullen, templar and mage-hater, was well-meaning when he said to kill all the mages, and had a point. The Chantry itself attempted to not only subvert the war, but made an active effort to stop the war once it happened. It was the Chantry folk that helped the people of Redcliffe when there were people, you know, dying over there. 

 

Does anybody not remember the fact that when Mother Petrice murdered a viscount's son to start a war with the qunari and set up Hawke for murder, the person Anders deliberately murdered was the one who saw through her and was going to arrest her and prosecute her? Because that's totally a thing currupt chantry folk would do.

 

What Anders accomplished was a whole lot of dead people. Nobody really knows or understands the plight of the mages. All they see is templars hunting mages, and mages fighting templars, and the whole country side burning to all hell because of it. Congrats, what Anders did was transform mages into selfish bastards who won't listen to reason.

 

That's not an end that can be justified. Anders destroyed his cause, not helped it.

[Natureguy85]

1. How about this for a better comparison. Keep beating your spouse every day. Either they continue to do nothing till you kill them, or they snap and they kill you. Either way, dogs or people, respecting them like living being with rights wins over physically assaulting day in and day out. People can take only so much before they snap and act out. If all they know is violence, that's all they will give. 

 

 

Your analogy is broken. For it to work, your spouse doesn't kill you, they kill your boss. Does that make any sense?

 

 

 

I liked Anders in Awakening when he was introduced. I sympathized with him and helped him. When it came to DA2 I wish he had at least trusted my mage characters more. Some of them might have even helped him blow the chantry up.

 

The Templars abuse and misuse mages. They control them as if they were slaves. The Templars answer to the Chantry which knows EXACTLY what the Templars are doing. or they turn a blind eye to it. This to me means the Chantry is just as corrupt and is using religion to control the lives of people. Did Anders do the right thing? I will say that he did. It pushed everyone into fully accepting what many were choosing to ignore.

 

So I like Anders. he took the hard road knowing the costs but felt the ends justified the means. It cost lives but at the same time it meant the world could no longer ignore the plight of mages under the crushing fist of the Templars controlled by a chantry that refused to step in. The biggest issue is that the chantry had stopped seeing mages as humans who had just as much right to life as anyone else.

 

The chantry got what I deserved.

 

So if you actually want a war, what sense does it make to attack the passive civilian branch rather than the aggressive martial branch that is actually doing the abusing? All Anders did was anger the martial branch without hurting them in any way.

[ORTesc]

No, not really. I liked his cat.

[Ayla Theirin]

Anders. ANDERS.


YES. I like Anders. Only in the Awakening game, though. I mean, I just didn't like what they did to him in two. It made him...not the same man. I know that is what the creators of the game intended, after he merged with Justice, but I just. I just can't. I don't even have him in my party when I play, now. In Awakening, he won us over with his charm, and his wit. In the second...he is an Emo worse than Fenris. So. YES AND NO. I really am so torn over what happened to him. 

[luna1124]

My Fem Hawke mage liked him okay... He was a good man (healing the sick and all), but Justice got a little carried away.

[Angry_Elcor]

 

Seemed appropriate.

[X Equestris]

I liked Anders in Awakening when he was introduced. I sympathized with him and helped him. When it came to DA2 I wish he had at least trusted my mage characters more. Some of them might have even helped him blow the chantry up.
 
The Templars abuse and misuse mages. They control them as if they were slaves. The Templars answer to the Chantry which knows EXACTLY what the Templars are doing. or they turn a blind eye to it. This to me means the Chantry is just as corrupt and is using religion to control the lives of people. Did Anders do the right thing? I will say that he did. It pushed everyone into fully accepting what many were choosing to ignore.
 
So I like Anders. he took the hard road knowing the costs but felt the ends justified the means. It cost lives but at the same time it meant the world could no longer ignore the plight of mages under the crushing fist of the Templars controlled by a chantry that refused to step in. The biggest issue is that the chantry had stopped seeing mages as humans who had just as much right to life as anyone else.
 
The chantry got what I deserved.

For one thing, Anders should have gone after the Templars if he really wanted to make a statement. Secondly, Anders does more than attack the Chantry. His bombing of the Chantry kills hundreds, as we find out in Inquisition, of civilians whose only crime was living near the Chantry.

[Morlanwen]

Of course i like Anders. My characters could have agreed on blowing up the Chantry with him. I disliked the chantry concept from Origins, i hated it in DA2 and I do not want to choose a new Divine in DAI. My chararcters are a bit like me : "Neither god nor master" (don't get me wrong here, i will not blow up any churches in real life ^^).

I tried to play a "good andrastian" but it was really hard for me :/

 

 

Forgive my bad english

[Bad King]

I personally didn't.

 

For a start, I didn't think he was very well written. His character is very one dimensional when 90% of his dialogue relates to mage freedom in Kirkwall. This was a real shame as BioWare had a big opportunity to flesh out other aspects of his character such as his relationship with the Grey Wardens, his early life in the Anderfels and (as a mage in a partnership with a spirit of justice) his views of the fade and religion. Sadly, we got very little of these latter aspects instead being constantly bombarded by his anti-circle, anti-templar views, even in his interaction with other party members (who he tends to insult for little reason).

 

Regarding his character, I thought he was a pretty decent guy in Act 1 (despite his largely hostile personality): he helped Ferelden refugees and even saves one of your siblings if they contract the blight. He later seems to lose sight of his altruism however as his desire for mage freedom consumes him which leads to him becoming less and less likeable. His attack on the chantry is proof of his growing lack of regard for human lives and to me was one of the most idiotic and counter-productive things he could ever have done. It killed a bunch of innocent people which villified Kirwall's mages and forced them into an un-winnable war. 

[Elfyoth]

No becouse he hate elves.

[k1rage]

No becouse he hate elves.

 

 

Wait Anders hates elves? where does that come from? I must have missed it lol

 

And yes I like Anders, while all you other party members ****** about stuff Anders actually does something.  (even if what he does is an atrocity)

 

You gatta love a man of action lol

[Helmetto]

Wait Anders hates elves? where does that come from? I must have missed it lol

 

And yes I like Anders, while all you other party members ****** about stuff Anders actually does something.  (even if what he does is an atrocity)

 

You gatta love a man of action lol

 

"So long as he does something, no matter how stupid, he's cool."

[Armali]

I like him, but he can be hard to like some times. He has been through a lot of tragedy in his life, I suppose, and that would put some sense into his actions. He does come off as more whiney than he should, but I do like him. He's just difficult.

[Han Shot First]

Never survives DA2 for me.

[Andreas Amell]

I felt sorry for him because he's screwed up from merging with Justice. But I always chose to put him down because he murdered too many innocent people. I don't know why some players chose to spare him. Must be that misguided angel of mercy mentality.

[Neilana]

I'd been liking him since his first appearance in the Awakening DLC. I also liked him through the DA2, my character had a romance with him but the ending of the DA2 was too much disappointing for me. And in all my previous playthroughs I had always supported mages. Now I don't trust them and in the DA:I I support templars.

[Mocksie]

If he was a fresh character, I wouldn't hate him as much. It's not so much that I hate him in DA2 as much as it is that I hate his transformation from Awakening to DA2. 

[nikki-tikki]

The fact that he treats both Merrill and Fenris like ****, won't shut up about mages, and blew up the Chantry. Nope. That's okay. Here's a dagger in the back.