833 réponses à ce sujet

[Illegitimus]

What do you mean? Anders does it, not Hawke. Hawke only gets to choose if he dies for it or not.

 

Also Tevinter =/= southern mages. In fact Tevinter oppressed southern mages like the none-mages. Nationality always takes priority when it comes to Tevinter, so much as a non- mage Tevinter citizen is valued more than a none-citizen mage from outside Tevinter.

 

And you damn well the southern mages are not going to create another Tevinter. You are just arguing for the sake of arguing.

 

Personally, I'm quite confident that had the Mage Rebellion won, they would have created a mage-ruled oligarchy...because what other choice would they have had?  

[Mikoto8472]

Answering the OP's question...

 

 

Yes I do like Anders. Both Awakening version and DA2 version. It showed how much the merger with Justice had changed him. I admit that Ander's continual complaints about the plight of the mages did annoy me a bit at times even though I fully support his position and most of my Hawkes were mages. Still he was absolutely devoted to his cause and eventually threw everything he had at it including himself. I respect that.

 

As for blowing up the Chantry, well I understand why he did it. And I don't consider it an act of terrorism. I don't condone what he did but at the same time I can't think of a better way of achieving a mage rebellion so I'm in no position to talk.

[Lord Gunsmith 90]

He's Thedas's Osama Bin Laden , so no!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Illegitimus]

Answering the OP's question...

 

 

Yes I do like Anders. Both Awakening version and DA2 version. It showed how much the merger with Justice had changed him. I admit that Ander's continual complaints about the plight of the mages did annoy me a bit at times even though I fully support his position and most of my Hawkes were mages. Still he was absolutely devoted to his cause and eventually threw everything he had at it including himself. I respect that.

 

As for blowing up the Chantry, well I understand why he did it. And I don't consider it an act of terrorism. I don't condone what he did but at the same time I can't think of a better way of achieving a mage rebellion so I'm in no position to talk.

 

Terrorism doesn't stop being terrorism because you approve of the objective.  And hitting soft targets to provoke authority into clamping down and ithereby ncrease revolutionary sentiment is inherently terrorism. And deliberately provoking a war that will lead to the defeat and slaughter of those you want to "help"...that's madness.  

[Kynare]

I felt pity for him. He was barely likable to me on the friendship path (I cringed every time I accidentally encouraged his behavior), but I'm not sure if he was supposed to be. And I never played Awakening.

 

At first it was just, "why do you whine so much freakin hormonal mages" and then I started listening to his dialogue during the third act where he really sounds like he's going nuts. He withdraws from all of the other companions, Aveline is questioning whether he's lying or going crazy during conversations, etc. I feel like they did a good job at the foreshadowing in his behavior.

 

And yes, I killed him. Still feel bad for him though.

[Deadly dwarf]

I just started DA:  Awakening.  Is it just me or does Anders look an awful lot like Allistair and Cailan?  (Given the wild mage outfit he's wearing, he kind of looks like Allistair in a dress!  At least mage outfits improved in DA:I.)   I could even swear it's the same voice actor.  The "funny guy" routine is also similar....at least in Awakening.  It sounds like he changes quite a bit in DA II.

 

My apologies if this was mentioned earlier in this thread.  Five years of post is a lot to go through!

[RoseLawliet]

I could even swear it's the same voice actor.

 

I think others have already pointed out that Awakening Anders has the same voice actor as Cullen. Apologies if you already knew that. I've been awake for over 24 hours and I tend not to be able to read intent and sarcasm well at times like this.

[Natureguy85]

Terrorism doesn't stop being terrorism because you approve of the objective.  And hitting soft targets to provoke authority into clamping down and ithereby ncrease revolutionary sentiment is inherently terrorism. And deliberately provoking a war that will lead to the defeat and slaughter of those you want to "help"...that's madness.  

 

Attacking the civilian chantry rather than the martial templar hall is what makes it an act of terrorism rather than the first strike of war. I always wondered why he would ****** of the military arm without weakening it.

[Illegitimus]

Attacking the civilian chantry rather than the martial templar hall is what makes it an act of terrorism rather than the first strike of war. I always wondered why he would ****** of the military arm without weakening it.

 

Well there are two reasons.  One is that the Mother was exerting just enough influence over the Templars to keep things from going up in flames without actually getting them to stop their abuses, so instead of fixing the problem she was perpetuating it.  The other is that Alistair would have had no chance in the void of getting a lyrium bomb into theTemplar Hall without getting caught.  The Templars were hyper-vigilant as only the paranoid can be.  

 

But of course that's precisely why terrorism works the way it does.  

[Natureguy85]

Well there are two reasons.  One is that the Mother was exerting just enough influence over the Templars to keep things from going up in flames without actually getting them to stop their abuses, so instead of fixing the problem she was perpetuating it.  The other is that Alistair would have had no chance in the void of getting a lyrium bomb into theTemplar Hall without getting caught.  The Templars were hyper-vigilant as only the paranoid can be.  

 

But of course that's precisely why terrorism works the way it does.  

 

Wasn't the Templar Hall part of the Gallows where the mages were? Orsino's office was right across from Meredith's wasn't it? Maybe that's the excuse; bombing there would have killed Mages as well.

 

Anders didn't target Elthina because she was part of the problem, though you are correct that she was. He specifically says he "removed the chance of compromise" because while Elthina didn't fix the problem, she did keep Meredith from escalating things.

[thewatcheruatu]

I'm going to paraphrase Family Guy where it comes to Anders. "You were a douche. But you were my douche."

[Toxicity]

I pity him. He wants so badly to help the mages to freedom because he knows what it was like to live in a Circle. He has given up so much of himself just to reach that goal. When I first played I barely used him in my party, but now that I'm replaying it and using him all the time, I notice more. All throughout Act 3 you see him slowly breaking down, withdrawing from the other companions.

 

He comes off as a manipulative bastard if you don't agree to help him with a lot of things, but he is still focused on pursuing his goals to help set mages to freedom. He seems really selfless. He agrees that mages can be dangerous to themselves and others, but they shouldn't be held from living their life free away from the circle, and he absolutely hates blood mages. He admits to being a lair and a monster. That's why I can't hate him. He takes ownership for almost everything he does and he isn't a bad guy. He is really whiny in the beginning, though.. 

 

But I really preferred the Anders in Awakening, besides the bloody voice actor being Greg Ellis. So glad they changed it to Adam Howden.  

edit: even when he blows up the Chantry he is ready to die for his actions, which pisses me off because he's trying to escape the punishment he truly deserves. But I will never kill him when I play at anytime. This coming from a girl who always tries playing as a paragon. 

[thewatcheruatu]

In all seriousness, though, I actually do think that Anders is a fascinating character. Calling him a terrorist is, I feel, a bit too simplistic. He simply understands the inevitability of full-out bloodshed and he doesn't do what he does out of hatred or naivete. It's a highly rational action for which he assumes he's going to pay the price.

 

I feel like you can find an historical counterpart for Anders in John Brown (extremely staunch abolitionist who basically started fighting the American Civil War a few years too early). Even to this day, Browne is a pretty controversial figure, but incontrovertibly, his ire toward the practice of denying all freedoms to a group of people based upon nothing more than a fact of their birth was well-placed.

 

I think Anders understood that weak leadership was in a very real sense dooming the Kirkwall circle mages to a slow but sure eradication. Anders saw the vicious circle: that the Templars would continue pushing mages further and further into the corner, and that increasingly desperate mages, fighting for their lives, would turn to blood magic. And everytime they did, it would just fuel the hatred against them, and further justify the Templars' actions. There was only one way it could end if nobody did anything to finally force society to take sides in open conflict.

 

My Hawke just couldn't kill Anders. She'd been fighting for the rights of mages for the past ten years. Anders simply fired the first shot in a war that everybody saw coming. Let's not pretend either that the Chantry wasn't complicit in Meredith's utter subjugation of the Kirkwall circle.

 

I actually just stumbled upon a discussion page on the Dragon Age wiki where a few others draw this same analogy.

 

In terms of personality, however, Anders is a douche. But of course he is.

[springacres]

In all seriousness, though, I actually do think that Anders is a fascinating character. Calling him a terrorist is, I feel, a bit too simplistic. He simply understands the inevitability of full-out bloodshed and he doesn't do what he does out of hatred or naivete. It's a highly rational action for which he assumes he's going to pay the price.

 

I feel like you can find an historical counterpart for Anders in John Brown (extremely staunch abolitionist who basically started fighting the American Civil War a few years too early). Even to this day, Browne is a pretty controversial figure, but incontrovertibly, his ire toward the practice of denying all freedoms to a group of people based upon nothing more than a fact of their birth was well-placed.

 

I think Anders understood that weak leadership was in a very real sense dooming the Kirkwall circle mages to a slow but sure eradication. Anders saw the vicious circle: that the Templars would continue pushing mages further and further into the corner, and that increasingly desperate mages, fighting for their lives, would turn to blood magic. And everytime they did, it would just fuel the hatred against them, and further justify the Templars' actions. There was only one way it could end if nobody did anything to finally force society to take sides in open conflict.

 

My Hawke just couldn't kill Anders. She'd been fighting for the rights of mages for the past ten years. Anders simply fired the first shot in a war that everybody saw coming. Let's not pretend either that the Chantry wasn't complicit in Meredith's utter subjugation of the Kirkwall circle.

 

I actually just stumbled upon a discussion page on the Dragon Age wiki where a few others draw this same analogy.

 

In terms of personality, however, Anders is a douche. But of course he is.

That's a really good analogy, actually.  I never considered that point.

[Rappeldrache]

I loved Anders in DA Awakening.

 

He was great .... in DA2 he was really a bit ... to strange and not "Anders anymore".

[springacres]

I loved Anders in DA Awakening.

 

He was great .... in DA2 he was really a bit ... to strange and not "Anders anymore".

I feel like I've said this before somewhere, but combine DA2 Anders' looks with Awakening Anders' personality and you'd have my perfect Anders.

[RoseLawliet]

I feel like I've said this before somewhere, but combine DA2 Anders' looks with Awakening Anders' personality and you'd have my perfect Anders.

 

Maybe it's just me, but they don't look that different... :/

 

Either is fine. More than fine.

[Tidus]

I use Anders until Velanna joins the group then she becomes my mage.

 

If any one is interested I use my Elf, Velanna, Oghren and Sigrun  as my A Team...

[RoseLawliet]

If we're talking about DA2, I couldn't stand the female running animation so much that I had to start controling a guy for traveling around. That would be Anders. And then I never stopped. So not only does he go everywhere, he feels more like the PC of DA2 than Hawke does for me I'm very attached to that apostate.

[Natureguy85]

I loved Anders in DA Awakening.

 

He was great .... in DA2 he was really a bit ... to strange and not "Anders anymore".

 

That's the idea; he wasn't Anders anymore. They really needed to have more scenes with Vengeance or at least more discussion on how he's changed to make it clear that the attitude shift really is due to the bonding.

[diaspora2k5]

That's the idea; he wasn't Anders anymore. They really needed to have more scenes with Vengeance or at least more discussion on how he's changed to make it clear that the attitude shift really is due to the bonding.

IIRC if you make him a rival he admits later on there's increasingly blank spots in his memory.

 

Either way though, I consider him a good character because it's interesting to see him descend into homicidal lunacy.

[Natureguy85]

IIRC if you make him a rival he admits later on there's increasingly blank spots in his memory.

 

Either way though, I consider him a good character because it's interesting to see him descend into homicidal lunacy.

 

Yeah a lot of people say the Rival path is pretty good. I'll try that if I ever play DA2 again.

 

My problem is that we don't see a descent as much as a jump off a cliff. He starts as a healer and we are introduced to Vengeance when he is angry about Karl being made Tranquil and is defending himself. Not bad so far. Then he is suddenly about to kill another mage after killing the Templars that were abusing her. Then he suddenly wants to blow up the Chantry and does so. I also don't like that he went after the civilians to force a conflict rather than making the first strike against his actual enemy. The only way this makes sense is if he knew the other Mages actually would not rise up with him but would only defend themselves if attacked.

[Huntress]

I like Anders. And Agree with Ophir147. I didn't like Sebastian a bit but that's another topic.

[KDD-0063]

I hate his writing. I hate that you cannot choose to do anything about the situation. He's technically an unstable abomination, but the closest thing you can do to "contain" him is telling him to leave Kirkwall. You can't choose to kill him or imprison him or else, your only choice is to let him go free.

 

I hate his romance writing as well. I understand he is insecure and passive-aggresive. That is okay - it just means I won't be attracted to him even if I were gay or playing a female main character (Even my Fem!Hawke chose Fenris instead). The problem is Bioware throwing a barrage of heart icons at the players reminding them they could be together with Anders, and that's probably why straight guys say Bioware is waving his dick in their face.

[electrifried]

Yeah I romanced Anders first and totally regretted it when I realised how manipulative he was. His character didn't have many redeeming qualities either.