833 réponses à ce sujet

[GoldenGail3]

DAA Anders would amazing and so was Justice (my Queen Couslands tanking buddy in law), but in DA2... DAM YOU JUSTICE FOR CORRUPTING ANDERS!!! Yeah, that's what I feel about Anders, is mostly Justices fault.

[Cyrus Amell]

I originally spared Anders because I thought we would see him in Inquisition. Imagine having him dragged before your Inquisitorial throne for judgement, the man who could be said to have caused so much misery and woe. Imagine the credibility or the backlash that the Inquisition would have garnered if it had ruled one way or another.

 

And then he is a no show. Ran off after some of the mages complained about him starting the war and no one has seen him since. Worse, Prince Sebastian of Starkhaven invades Kirkwall to flush out any rebel mage influence just because Anders was allowed to live. This results in a protracted battle between Starkhaven forces and the Kirkwall resistance lead by Guard Captain Aveline Vallen. Whereas if we kill Anders everything is sunshine and roses since Sebastian just wants to help repair the damage caused by the war. 

 

So no, I don't like him. He is simply more trouble than he is worth to keep alive after he destroys the Chantry in the end. Everything about Anders felt forced, largely because Dragon Age 2 was so quickly rushed that his motives and ideals were not given sufficient room to translate into proper action.  

[diaspora2k5]

Doesn't he encourage you to give Fenris back to his slave-master while also dismissing his experience as a slave? Dude has major problems.

[Aren]

Doesn't he encourage you to give Fenris back to his slave-master while also dismissing his experience as a slave? Dude has major problems.

it's called Hypocrisy

[diaspora2k5]

it's called Hypocrisy

It makes me wish they used him/vengeance/justice instead of Calpernia.

[TheRealJayDee]

I don't remember anything I liked about DA2 Anders. 

[jeremyj26]

I don't remember anything I liked about DA2 Anders. 

 

He was the most annoying character.

[electrifried]

I romanced Anders because that love heart kept popping up in all the convos and I was like why not. Ughh such a mistake, should have gone with Fenris instead. His explanation at the end just irritated me more. Although perhaps if they had more time to flesh out the game he would've been more sympathetic? I dunno. He always came across so whiny and narrow minded.

[Crimson Vanguard]

Anders needs to be punished ...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

by drowning him in kittens.

[FemShem]

As always...are you really asking me...or are you asking my Hawke...b/c it really depends on my Hawke.

I've had 10 Hawke's make it to the end of the game.  5 remained his friend.  5 killed him.  depends on the Hawke, who they were, who they were sleeping with, who anders was, etc.

In the first play thru I never even met the revered mother...except in passing...and that F/Hawke was an Atheist as far as the Maker was concerned.  She had no issue with Anders and was very into Isabela and her own tragic life.

As always, it depends on the play through, that's the fun of an rpg.

I only had one Hawke turn Isa over to the Arish...couldn't believe it...but it made sense for him...I think 8 F Hawke's romanced her, one went for Merrill.

It depends.

[Fylimar]

Doesn't he encourage you to give Fenris back to his slave-master while also dismissing his experience as a slave? Dude has major problems.

 

Nope, not in my games - and Anders is nearly always in my group. He said something about the Tevinter slavers and bloodmages giving all the other mages a bad reputation, so while he likes the idea of a free mage state, he doesn't like, what those slavers do. But I never rivalmanced him, I read, that he become a bit unstable then, maybe, you only get that comment then. Friendship Anders seems more like a revolutionary to me (he reminds me a bit of Enjolras from Les Miserables in fact) ans not like a lunatic at all. But since the end of DA2 was rushed and not very good, I guess, Anders blowing up the church is based on the same brillant (attention - irony allert) storytelling as Orsino going all murderous on Hawke despite the fact, that she is helping him. And Meredith becoming a Lyrium zombie is equally stupid, so I just tend to ignore the end anyway.

He has some banter with Fenris, where he is taunting him - those two don't get along well, Fenris with not liking mages, Anders not feeling understood by Fenris. And there is one banter, where Anders said something along the line, that he wished right now, that Fenris was back in slavery in Tevinter, but since Fenris said something equally charming before, I guess, it was just said in the heat of the moment.

 

And yes, I really like Anders, he is my favorite character - together with Varric and Aveline.

 

What I don't understand is, why does Anders get all the hate for starting a conflict, that would had happen anyway, but no one blames Isabella for the Arishok situation. She has a lot of blood on her hands too, but no one seems to care. At least, Anders had a cause, Isabella was just being selfish and egoistic.

[Fylimar]

Nope, not in my games - and Anders is nearly always in my group. He said something about the Tevinter slavers and bloodmages giving all the other mages a bad reputation, so while he likes the idea of a free mage state, he doesn't like, what those slavers do. But I never rivalmanced him, I read, that he become a bit unstable then, maybe, you only get that comment then. Friendship Anders seems more like a revolutionary to me (he reminds me a bit of Enjolras from Les Miserables in fact) ans not like a lunatic at all. But since the end of DA2 was rushed and not very good, I guess, Anders blowing up the church is based on the same brillant (attention - irony allert) storytelling as Orsino going all murderous on Hawke despite the fact, that she is helping him. And Meredith becoming a Lyrium zombie is equally stupid, so I just tend to ignore the end anyway.

He has some banter with Fenris, where he is taunting him - those two don't get along well, Fenris with not liking mages, Anders not feeling understood by Fenris. And there is one banter, where Anders said something along the line, that he wished right now, that Fenris was back in slavery in Tevinter, but since Fenris said something equally charming before, I guess, it was just said in the heat of the moment.

 

What I don't understand is, why does Anders get all the hate for starting a conflict, that would had happen anyway, but no one blames Isabella for the Arishok situation.

I'm not saying, that blowing up a church full of people is ok, but Isabellas action were as bad as Anders, if not worse, because she did it for profit and nothing more, while Anders at least had an idealistic goal.

[Natureguy85]

 

What I don't understand is, why does Anders get all the hate for starting a conflict, that would had happen anyway, but no one blames Isabella for the Arishok situation.

I'm not saying, that blowing up a church full of people is ok, but Isabellas action were as bad as Anders, if not worse, because she did it for profit and nothing more, while Anders at least had an idealistic goal.

 

Let's get the big one out of the way first.  Stealing an artifact is not anywhere near as bad, let alone worse, than blowing up a building full of innocent people.

 

Now their are dire consequences, including many deaths, from that theft, and while it is discussed somewhat, you are right that Isabella gets a lot less flak from fans than Anders. This is likely for a few reasons, in addition to the one above.

 

1) Isabella is a pirate and thief. It makes sense with her character. I think the bombing was meant to surprise us that Anders was that desperate.

 

2) The fallout and deaths were unintended consequences from Isabella's actions. The deaths were direct and intended consequences of Anders' actions.

 

The real big ones are:

 

3) Isabella stole the book before Hawke ever met her, not after being our companion and friend for awhile. Not to mention Hawke wasn't complicit in the action nor did Isabella attempt to gain Hawke's help.

 

4) Isabella returns and attempts to make it right by returning the book.  It's up to you to decide how much that's worth, but it's something and is certainly better than moping in quiet, righteous indignation.

 

You may be justified in thinking Isabella should draw more criticism, but there is no comparison to Anders. Especially since Anders' either did or almost did get all the Kirkwall mages killed.

[TheButterflyEffect]

He's the kind of guy I'd totally have a three way with.

 

Oh, wait...

[Addictress]

I'm in love with Anders. Those romance scenes *Sweat* I really haven't found any other videogame romance scenes quite so shamefully effective

[Lythinae]

What I don't understand is, why does Anders get all the hate for starting a conflict, that would had happen anyway, but no one blames Isabella for the Arishok situation. She has a lot of blood on her hands too, but no one seems to care. At least, Anders had a cause, Isabella was just being selfish and egoistic.

 

I think that's a reflection of the way the game treats it.  The nastier aspects of piracy never really come up, and there isn't directly a huge impact on the game.

 

FWIW though, the end has no impact on my dislike for Anders.  But I didn't like him much in Awakenings, either.

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Partially because the Qunari situation is fixable (sometimes with her help), and partially because didn't specifically intent to drive the Qunari to attack, even if she caused it to happen with her selfishness. 

 

Even so though, in my first playthrough my Hawke hated them both for being traitors and cowards that destroyed his home. 

[niniendowarrior]

I enjoyed Anders generally in DA2.  I remembered he was kinda OK in DA: A but I really have found him forgettable.  I just wished that Anders in DA2 started without the Justice/Vengeance thing and that his merging with Justice was the jump off point of his character going homicidal.  Sets off the bomb, and reveals he had merged with Justice.  That for me, would be the most effective "What have you done?!!!" moment.

[Natureguy85]

I enjoyed Anders generally in DA2.  I remembered he was kinda OK in DA: A but I really have found him forgettable.  I just wished that Anders in DA2 started without the Justice/Vengeance thing and that his merging with Justice was the jump off point of his character going homicidal.  Sets off the bomb, and reveals he had merged with Justice.  That for me, would be the most effective "What have you done?!!!" moment.

 

Great idea. I said here or elsewhere that the problem was that Anders' character shift happened between games, so it was really odd. It's like the change in Liara in Mass Effect 2. Liara says some stuff happened but there is so little dialogue about it, the shift is hard to understand. That was fixed with the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC. Anders needs that.

[Lord Raijin]

Doesn't he encourage you to give Fenris back to his slave-master while also dismissing his experience as a slave? Dude has major problems.

 

Doesn't Fenris rat out on an innocent mage whom Hawke allows to escape from Kirkwall to the Knight-Commander? The same woman who would of had him executed for his escape because all he was after was sex?

[vertigomez]

I've tried really, really, really hard over the years to like Anders. But all I can think of is that portentous conversation and his insistence that if you were REALLY his friend, you would distract the Grand Cleric while he sets up a bomb that will kill a hundred innocent people... because that's what friends are for? He neglects to tell you that last bit, of course, but is super shady about it the whole time until Hawke finally just goes, "Tell me what you would have of me, then. But I won't forget you blackmailed me to get it."

So, yeah. I've tried to like him and see where he's coming from, but I can't seem to get past this conversation. Arguably a personal failing on my part.

[Natureguy85]

I've tried really, really, really hard over the years to like Anders. But all I can think of is that portentous conversation and his insistence that if you were REALLY his friend, you would distract the Grand Cleric while he sets up a bomb that will kill a hundred innocent people... because that's what friends are for? He neglects to tell you that last bit, of course, but is super shady about it the whole time until Hawke finally just goes, "Tell me what you would have of me, then. But I won't forget you blackmailed me to get it."

So, yeah. I've tried to like him and see where he's coming from, but I can't seem to get past this conversation. Arguably a personal failing on my part.

 

No, that's a perfectly rational response. He's trying to use you. He's obviously the one who doesn't trust you. My reaction was "Well, screw you then, jerk."

[Beregond5]

I haven't played Awakening, so I don't have a clear idea as to what he was like, but I rather feel bad for him in Dragon Age 2. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and it looks like that's what it was like in his case as well. And I can't hate him, not when I'm not sure where Justice (or rather, Vengeance) starts and where Anders begins. I certainly can't decide for which actions I can hold Anders accountable, since the 'corruption' can work both ways. Anders' anger distorted Justice to a spirit of Vengeance, who, in turn, corrupted Anders to become cynical and even bitter about the situation mages in general have to face - to the point that what little is left in Anders is consumed completely and utterly. This becomes rather clear in the Rivalry path where your Hawke can actually convince Anders that what he's doing is wrong, only for Vengeance to spring out and not only threaten Hawke to stay out of it, but even wipe out Ander's memory of the last few minutes to ensure the Chantry gets blown up. If you think about it, it's possible that this happened more than once. Hawke, either as his friend or his lover, served as a beacon to focus against the madness Anders was spiralling down to - but even that failed at the end. It's quite sad, really.

[Illegitimus]

Great idea. I said here or elsewhere that the problem was that Anders' character shift happened between games, so it was really odd. It's like the change in Liara in Mass Effect 2. Liara says some stuff happened but there is so little dialogue about it, the shift is hard to understand. That was fixed with the Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC. Anders needs that.

 

Anders is a different person in DA II, and I mean that literally.  The Anders/Justice fusion is someone new and needs to be evaluated separately from his progenitors.  

[Natureguy85]

Anders is a different person in DA II, and I mean that literally.  The Anders/Justice fusion is someone new and needs to be evaluated separately from his progenitors.  

 

Yes, but that change needs to be explored, especially because there is a "2" in the title and they tie a lot of things to the Origins story. Although that is mostly for the players, it's also for the lore, so we can explore what really happens when someone bonds with a spirit or demon. We've just seen the monster form in Origins. However, I admit that the change doesn't really matter for Hawke since he never knew Anders before.