833 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryriena]

Varric bad mouths Fenris or the others in one of his questioning beliefs quests

Anders: "Maybe, just maybe getting involved with the possessed mage might be dangerous. There: I've said my piece."

Fenris: "You do know the elf is covered in spikes, like an angsty porcupine? He might have some.. issues."

Isabela: "Isabela is a great girl, but I think you're likely to get hurt. By which I mean stabbed and left for dead." Thought she does stab you in the back with the relic but returns at the end of the act.

Merrill: "Merrill is a sweet girl, but there's a whole lot of crazy in that little package."

[sylvanaerie]

Maybe it's the fact that Varric is a lot more charming/suave about stating his opinion, and doesn't use phrases like 'a wild dog' and there isn't the added implication of himself as an alternative.  While I'm not keen on being told what to do or who to like, at least he's being a gentleman about it.  

 

There is also knowing that Varric genuinely likes (and watches out over) everyone in your group--especially Hawke.  He has no implied agenda behind his words.  He's not being an ass about it, just making a comment about his concerns, doesn't press himself as an alternative and drops it immediately after.  Anders most definitely doesn't like Merrill or Fenris (I can't really fault him for Fenris, the elf does ride his ass mercilessly about being a mage).  Wynne doesn't like Zevran or Morrigan, so her 'advice' smacks of busybody intrusion (at it's best descriptive).

[Ryriena]

Oh and Aveline calls Isabella a **** many times over the years, and talks badly to both fenris and Anders for an exmaple in her banters. I did not hear what she calls, Merill yet.

[Ryriena]

So you don't see that as Maybe Anders seeing you as a friend? And is worried the blood mage and the guy who has issues with magic might get you killed and tells him for seven years he needs to be locked up or killed has issues?

[sylvanaerie]

So you don't see that as Maybe Anders seeing you as a friend? And is worried the blood mage and the guy who has issues with magic might get you killed and tells him for seven years he needs to be locked up or killed has issues?

 

No, I don't see it that way.  Especially since my Hawke never sees him as 'a friend'.  Because he's so damn insulting while doing it, and there is the implication of 'I could be better for you than they are', something NO friend would say.  At least not someone I'd call a friend.  And considering the mission you're on for him at the time is a big 'screw you, Hawke' to begin with, pretty damn hypocritical as well.

 

*Edit* I also acknowledged in my post that his dislike of Fenris is not without cause. 

[MissOuJ]

I agree that Anders bad-mouthing Hawke's lover is way out of line and kind of disturbing. However, I've always wondered why Anders only does that with Merrill and Fenris but not Isabela. Perhaps he thinks Hawke's relationship with Isabela is just a fling? Or he doesn't find her as threatening as the other two?

 

I guess it's because out of all those romances (from his point of view) Isabela is the least likely to hurt Hawke. Anders considers Fenris violent and vicious (I believe these are his very words, actually), and he thinks Merrill is dangerous because of her blood magic, doubly so because she doesn't seem to take it seriously (and let's face it - he's kinda right about that, as seen during Pride's End).

 

It's implied that he has a thing for Hawke whether you romance him or not, which is just tragic, IMO, but that would explaing why he'd try to look out for you, even when you obviously don't need it and when he is quite clearly wrong and sticking his nose where it doesn't belong. I wouldn't call his behaviour here outright stalking, but all people have their own boundaries and I wouldn't be surprised if there were a person whose boundaries Anders' behaviour crossed, which pushed him into the creeper territory in their opinion.

 

His comments are completely out of line and unacceptable either way, though. Not cool, dude.

 

(But to be fair, "Not cool, dude/tte" pretty much sums up the behaviours of most of the characters and party members in DA2 at some point)

 

 

No, I don't see it that way.  Especially since my Hawke never sees him as 'a friend'.  Because he's so damn insulting while doing it, and there is the implication of 'I could be better for you than they are', something NO friend would say.  At least not someone I'd call a friend.  And considering the mission you're on for him at the time is a big 'screw you, Hawke' to begin with, pretty damn hypocritical as well.

 

I've never interpreted it that way, personally, particularly when he keeps telling Hawke he's bad for him/her if Hawke pursues romance with him. I just see that as him trying to protect Hawke from people he considers to be dangerous (again, Fenris and Merrill). He's definitely completely out of line and it's absolutely not his business to interfere, but in my opinion, it's never really been about him, but about Hawke's safety.

 

And as to the Justice-quest... Why would you interpret it as a big "screw you" to Hawke, unless your Hawke is siding with the Templars? I'm honestly perplexed by this. He definitely betrays your trust, and that I get, but other than that, his decision to blow up the Chantry has literary nothing to do with Hawke (except maybe if Hawke is a mage). It's a culmination of centuries of systematic opression, which was brought to head by a dysfunction in the system which gave the Templar order a blank cheque to do whatever they pleased because its leader had become posessed in everything but name, and the only person who could've done something about it spread her hands and decided it would be best to let the Maker take the wheel.

 

Mage freedom was kinda Anders' thing, with the Mage Underground and the manifestos and the like. And by the 3rd act the Underground is no more (actually, if you side with the Templars during the Act 3 opening cutscene you can take part in destroying the last of the Underground), his manifestos have become a running joke even among his friends (and possibly his lover, too), and even more to the point: nothing has changed in the Circle although it was discovered that one of the Templars was deliberately abusing the Rite of Tranquility to build himself a harem. You'd think an internal investigation would be in order, at least. But no, mages are still getting beaten and Alain is still terrified of Karras and his nightly visits.

 

All in all, his actions had very little to do with Hawke and more to do with the following facts: 1) he had merged with Justice, who is kinda intolerant of injustice, and 2) there was continuing injustice in the Circle and in the Chantry. I doubt he could've lived with himself - let alone with Justice - if he hadn't done something about it, whatever Hawke's position or opinion on the matter was.

[Dutchess]

Oh and Aveline calls Isabella a **** many times over the years, and talks badly to both fenris and Anders for an exmaple in her banters. I did not hear what she calls, Merill yet.

 

Aveline and Fenris get along just fine. Previously you mentioned the remark in her Act 2 quest, and all she does is asking about how Hawke and Fenris "deal with the danger of their lives". How is that badmouthing Fenris or Hawke's relationship with him? There are no insults or angry exchanges in their banter either. The two that lean the most to the negative are these:

 

Aveline: You are known, Fenris.

Fenris: What?

Aveline: I'm going through Jeven's neglected reports. Some involve you. And requests about you.

Fenris: By whom?

Aveline: I don't know. They're old, poorly kept. But you should be on your best behavior.

Fenris: Thank you for getting rid of them.

Aveline: I didn't.

───────

Aveline: All right, I'm just going to say it. Fenris, you need to present yourself better.

Fenris: What are you talking about?

Aveline: You're squatting in Hightown. I sympathize with your claims, but your neighbors have influence.

Fenris: My claims?

Aveline: To the estate. "Rightfully stolen" isn't exactly something I can forward to the Viscount. Be more discreet about... yourself.

Fenris: I shall endeavor to exist with less offense.

 

Again, feel free to check the banter again and dig up some that actually support your claims: http://dragonage.wik...Fenris/Dialogue

 

To Anders she is also surprisingly civil. Anders is usually the one to provoke and who gets mad. Or just insulting.

 

Anders: I suppose you're just thrilled how the knight-commander's basically stepped into the viscount's seat?

Aveline: She can't stall the process forever. It's not her place.

Aveline: Leaving the viscount's seat empty will just tempt people to fight for it. It will cause more trouble than it prevents.

Anders: Well. You've got a brain in there after all.

Anders: I was convinced that headband was to keep it from falling out.

[Kirke]

Like? I LOVE Anders. One of the most layered and well written characters in Dragon Age. The only part I was angry at him about was that he didn't tell me about his plan so I couldn't have helped him out. There is nothing worse than a religious leader turning a blind eye to those suffering in the name of thier very own religion, and, sadly, Elthina is solely to blame for the suffering and opression of mages in Kirkwall, and everything that has happened during the conflict. Her apathy (that she oh so gracefully mistakes for benevolence and leadership) is reason number one, two and three that this conflict has ever started and then ended the way it did.

[Althix]

^ interesting opinion.

[Beerfish]

I disliked him from the very 1st time i met him in awakenings.  In my mind he was an obvious liar and I was suspicious of him from word one.  In a room full of dead templars and demons and him without scratch.  It was right then and there I felt he had a hand in killing the templars that had arrested him.  Especially with is Bart Simpson like 'I didn't do it!' ha ha line.

[Beerfish]

Like? I LOVE Anders. One of the most layered and well written characters in Dragon Age. The only part I was angry at him about was that he didn't tell me about his plan so I couldn't have helped him out. There is nothing worse than a religious leader turning a blind eye to those suffering in the name of thier very own religion, and, sadly, Elthina is solely to blame for the suffering and opression of mages in Kirkwall, and everything that has happened during the conflict. Her apathy (that she oh so gracefully mistakes for benevolence and leadership) is reason number one, two and three that this conflict has ever started and then ended the way it did.

LOL  Elthina is the only thing that saved the mages asses for so long.  Her big failing was trying to not choose sides and being conciliatory and it got her and a lot of others killed.  The mages of Kirkwall or at least the leadership was as corrupt as can be as shown by good old Orsino and his behavior.  If Orsino had acted like real head mage Meredith wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.

 

Your view is very much akin to Anders I'll give you that.  An ideology that is biased beyond belief and in the end a bane for those that you are saying you want to protect.

[frostajulie]

I love him as a character. I also see a lot of myself in him and his choices.  Makes me glad I was not born a mage in Thedas.

[Althix]

del

[Nekator]

can´t stand what they did to a likeable character (DA1)... i also find him repulsive as he nearly rapes my male character, just to get his approval... kicked him down and out nontheless.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

LOL  Elthina is the only thing that saved the mages asses for so long.  Her big failing was trying to not choose sides and being conciliatory and it got her and a lot of others killed.  The mages of Kirkwall or at least the leadership was as corrupt as can be as shown by good old Orsino and his behavior.  If Orsino had acted like real head mage Meredith wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.

 

Your view is very much akin to Anders I'll give you that.  An ideology that is biased beyond belief and in the end a bane for those that you are saying you want to protect.

 

The bolded cannot be said enough.

[HK-90210]

The bolded cannot be said enough.

 

Agreed.

 

Off-topic: Awesome Avatar, HYR. Go Packers.

[Xilizhra]

I agree that Anders bad-mouthing Hawke's lover is way out of line and kind of disturbing. However, I've always wondered why Anders only does that with Merrill and Fenris but not Isabela. Perhaps he thinks Hawke's relationship with Isabela is just a fling? Or he doesn't find her as threatening as the other two?

Because Merrill is a blood mage and Fenris is an *******.

[Ryzaki]

I agree that Anders bad-mouthing Hawke's lover is way out of line and kind of disturbing. However, I've always wondered why Anders only does that with Merrill and Fenris but not Isabela. Perhaps he thinks Hawke's relationship with Isabela is just a fling? Or he doesn't find her as threatening as the other two?

 

• Anders: Hawke was a fool to let you move in. You'll only betray him/her. That's all your kind can do.
• Merrill: Why do you only do this to me? Are you jealous? You don't get upset about Hawke and Isabela.
• Anders: You can't really get jealous of someone for sleeping with Isabela. It's just...understood.
• Anders: She's like a side dish. She comes with the meal.

So yeah I'd guess he doesn't see her as threatening.

[Xilizhra]

LOL  Elthina is the only thing that saved the mages asses for so long.  Her big failing was trying to not choose sides and being conciliatory and it got her and a lot of others killed.  The mages of Kirkwall or at least the leadership was as corrupt as can be as shown by good old Orsino and his behavior.  If Orsino had acted like real head mage Meredith wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.

 

Your view is very much akin to Anders I'll give you that.  An ideology that is biased beyond belief and in the end a bane for those that you are saying you want to protect.

Eh. I would disagree on some of the particulars, but the mage leadership was corrupt solely by the broken and unjust laws of the templars.

[guntar74]

Awakening anders was one of my wardens bros. In da2 I liked him OK enough at the start but as it went on u could tell he and justice were becoming something else( a very whiney and angry something else). So at the end my hawke "released" him from the spirit, because if he was willing to do what he did how much worse would it get later

Oh and I didn't hate him at all. Just sucked to see him deteriorate from who he was in awakening

[ShallowlLife9871]

I like Anders....he had me at " I didn't do it.."

[SmilesJA]

Eh. I would disagree on some of the particulars, but the mage leadership was corrupt solely by the broken and unjust laws of the templars.

 

Elthina should've done something, especially when the Templars started to take control of Kirkwall.

[MissOuJ]

LOL  Elthina is the only thing that saved the mages asses for so long.  Her big failing was trying to not choose sides and being conciliatory and it got her and a lot of others killed.  The mages of Kirkwall or at least the leadership was as corrupt as can be as shown by good old Orsino and his behavior.  If Orsino had acted like real head mage Meredith wouldn't have had a leg to stand on.

 

Your view is very much akin to Anders I'll give you that.  An ideology that is biased beyond belief and in the end a bane for those that you are saying you want to protect.

 

Here's where we agree - but what was corrupt (in quite literal sence) was Meredith and her rule. Not to say anything about the Chantry and the Circles, where the Templars abused their power in other places besides Kirkwall (like the White Spire, for example - in Asunder people don't even blink when they see mages who've obviously been beaten, and the Rivaini Circle got Annulled because... the mages had the audacity to live with their families and learn the traditional Rivaini seer magic).

 

Elthina on the other hand was either just plain dumb and incabable of doing her job, or possibly (and in my opinion, more likely) she was engaging in inner Chantry politicking: the Chantry got a new (more pro-mage) Divine in 34 Dragon (the year the Qunari rebelled in Kirkwall), whose appointment was apparently somewhat controversial (because she was "wordly" and "demonstrated forgiveness for sinners", according to Justinia V's codex entry).

 

As to Orsino's behaviour... first of all, he could do basicly nothing to oppose Meredith. His position in Kirkwall was all but seremonial - he had no real power according to the Chantry law: there's nothing that bounds Templars to respect the First Enchanter's orders or suggestions. Which is something Meredith made a good use of. For example I find it hard to beleve that Orsino was consulted before Karl or any of ser Alrik's other victims were made Tranquil (Tranquility is one of the things that always requires First Enchanter's consent). Whether or not he knew exactly what Quentin was doing (as in, that he was a mass murderer) is unclear, in my opinion, since he refers to his "research", and personally I think it's more likely Orsino delegated some of the Circle's research to him, because Meredith considered pretty much everything "blood magic" (and apparently the Chantry has a history of banning anatomical research - again, because "blood magic"). Then again my opinion is greatly influenced by the little tidbit that originally Orsino wasn't supposed to be a boss if you sided with the Mages.

 

Also, Anders and his actions weren't a problem  - they were the bloody and painful catalyst into fixing the problem. Whether or not the Circles gain independence and mages gain freedom, Anders' actions proved two things: that 1) the power the Chantry and the Templar order have over the Circle and its mages is excessive and frequently completely off the mark (Meredith could've just killed Anders, but instead she decided to go after the Circle although they'd had no part in any of it - but she'd already sent for Val Royaux for the promission to Annull the Circle before Anders blew up the Chantry, so she probably wanted to kill two birds with one stone...), and 2) that the Chantry, as an institution, needs to change. Whatever happends during of after the Inquisition, one thing's for sure: the Circles are never going to be the same again. Also, many mages have gotten free and have been given the chance to truly organize because of the Circle revolts, which has implications of its own - most of them positive, regarding the mages' rights. Which is exactly what Anders wanted. Anders had tried the peaceful route for several years (manifestos, the Underground, reporting ser Alrik's plans), and nothing had come out of it. He probably realised that drastic measures were required, and hit the problem itself: the institution that gives the Templars its power over the mages, ie. the Chantry.

[Bigdoser]

 

Edit: Pretty much after playing awakening recently he is just like alistair deflecting his issues with humour man has been through HELL itself and can still make jokes? Its pretty obvious he is hurting inside, tried to make sure the grey wardens could be a home he could finally settle down in. Plus his short story before DA2 came out? If my PC was around that would not stand and I would have reprimanded that templar warden his job is watching for darkspawn no watching mages under the order. I mean honestly take justice and anders with you in awakening and listen to their banter after DA2 came along it did not surprise me that happened after I got both of them at max approval. 

 

Justice very being is that he cannot stand injustice and then mix that with anders and we get DA2. Plus we also get to the point that justice and vengeance blur in a sense they are quite the same thing so to speak. Hence I subscribe that demons are also spirits and they can either be bad or good I mean look at cole and what he is trying to do in DAI.

 

Oh and warden's are not good people I recall david saying is duncan was still alive? He would not have sorted out the issues with freldan he would who just left and waited for the blight on Orlais border allowing the blight to sallow freldan. Since its on the brink of civil war and all the treat armies have problems as well. Oh I like anders by the way. 

 

The fact that he is willing to die for blowing up the temple and they deserve justice as well shows me his integrity. Its a shame that anders is one of the most overpowered characters when it comes to damage or support which does not help the decision lol. Curse you bioware gameplay designers!

[Dutchess]

Because Merrill is a blood mage and Fenris is an *******.

 

And Anders is an abomination.