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[Althix]

And Anders is an abomination.

and this is the main reason why my Hawke killed him.

[Xilizhra]

And Anders is an abomination.

So was Wynne, and she worked out.

[Althix]

worked out how exactly? this spirit can very well be more dangerous than Justice, Vengeance or both combined. I should not remind you, i guess, what attrocities were committed in the name of God or Fiath.

[Dutchess]

So was Wynne, and she worked out.

 

Wynne never lost control over her spirit. She never (nearly) killed an innocent person while under the spirit's influence. And she did not blow up old priestesses. Nothing indicates that Wynne was completely consumed by the ideal her spirit represented, while it is very clear that Justive/Vengeance has warped Anders' mind so it's all he is concerned about. In sum, Wynne did not turn into an extremely unstable person. 

[Xilizhra]

Wynne never lost control over her spirit. She never (nearly) killed an innocent person while under the spirit's influence. And she did not blow up old priestesses. Nothing indicates that Wynne was completely consumed by the ideal her spirit represented, while it is very clear that Justive/Vengeance has warped Anders' mind so it's all he is concerned about. In sum, Wynne did not turn into an extremely unstable person. 

No, but Wynne also had to be prodded like hell to actually join the fight, so both win some and both lose some in my eyes.

[Lulupab]

Wynne never lost control over her spirit. She never (nearly) killed an innocent person while under the spirit's influence. And she did not blow up old priestesses. Nothing indicates that Wynne was completely consumed by the ideal her spirit represented, while it is very clear that Justive/Vengeance has warped Anders' mind so it's all he is concerned about. In sum, Wynne did not turn into an extremely unstable person.

She does slip at the end when she sees her son in danger. Emotions of the host directly affect the spirit. Anders has so much more anger.

[Beerfish]

Wynne never lost control over her spirit. She never (nearly) killed an innocent person while under the spirit's influence. And she did not blow up old priestesses. Nothing indicates that Wynne was completely consumed by the ideal her spirit represented, while it is very clear that Justive/Vengeance has warped Anders' mind so it's all he is concerned about. In sum, Wynne did not turn into an extremely unstable person. 

Anders warped justice into vengance, not the other way around if i am not mistaken.

[Lulupab]

Anders warped justice into vengance, not the other way around if i am not mistaken.

if you read through codex you'll see that its not permanent. Normally Justice is inside Anders' head, able to express his thoughts through him and its the Justice we know from awakening. Our encounter with him in the fade further proves this. But Anders' anger affects him as well as Justice. Once enraged, which usually happens when fighting Templars, Anders completely loses himself to anger and so does Justice and Justice is transformed into force of Vengeance until the rage soothes and this is definitely not Justice. But afterwards its again Justice.

[MissOuJ]

She does slip at the end when she sees her son in danger. Emotions of the host directly affect the spirit. Anders has so much more anger.

 

Also, Wynne's experiences in the Circle were much more positive than Anders', and she's enjoying relative freedom during her possession (she gets possessed right before the Warden comes to the Circle, leaves with him/her to help with the Blight, is not forced to return to the Circle after the Blight but is allowed to travel without having to look over her shoulder in every corner), and I think Anders' prior trauma (again: a year in solitary really, really messes you up - as in everything from hallusinations to hypersensitivity to becoming suicidal) affected his merger with Justice.

 

In addition, Wynne wasn't in Kirkwall, she wasn't living it or seeing it the same way Anders was - Wynne's former lover and friend wasn't made Tranquil illegally by a corrupted Templar, Wynne herself didn't have the opportunity to witness the dysfunctionality of the Gallows first hand, nor see what it did to the mages in Kirkwall and what it drove them to do. She isn't there, seeing mages succumb to deamons and blood magic because they feel cornered, like they have no other escape - Anders sees and experiences all of that, mostly first hand either through Hawke or through his work with the Underground.

 

All in all, Anders doesn't just have more anger - by the end of Act 3 he's completely lost, hopeless, and all but alone with his cause. Add that to his existing trauma and the fact that Justice is making him even more aware of just how unjust all of it is, and it's really not all that surprising that he ends up doing what he does.

[Lulupab]

Also, Wynne's experiences in the Circle were much more positive than Anders', and she's enjoying relative freedom during her possession (she gets possessed right before the Warden comes to the Circle, leaves with him/her to help with the Blight, is not forced to return to the Circle after the Blight but is allowed to travel without having to look over her shoulder in every corner), and I think Anders' prior trauma (again: a year in solitary really, really messes you up - as in everything from hallusinations to hypersensitivity to becoming suicidal) affected his merger with Justice.
 
In addition, Wynne wasn't in Kirkwall, she wasn't living it or seeing it the same way Anders was - Wynne's former lover and friend wasn't made Tranquil illegally by a corrupted Templar, Wynne herself didn't have the opportunity to witness the dysfunctionality of the Gallows first hand, nor see what it did to the mages in Kirkwall and what it drove them to do. She isn't there, seeing mages succumb to deamons and blood magic because they feel cornered, like they have no other escape - Anders sees and experiences all of that, mostly first hand either through Hawke or through his work with the Underground.
 
All in all, Anders doesn't just have more anger - by the end of Act 3 he's completely lost, hopeless, and all but alone with his cause. Add that to his existing trauma and the fact that Justice is making him even more aware of just how unjust all of it is, and it's really not all that surprising that he ends up doing what he does.

+1 I agree. Also a spirit of Justice is so much more strict than a spirit of Faith. The codex mentions spirits of Justice do everything in their power to uphold their name, even if it means they will perish for it.

Also my main point was Anders' initial anger changed Justice, I was not talking about afterwards. But I like the changes in Anders in friendship route after sparing him. I definitely saw something worth saving and redeeming.

[MissOuJ]

+1 I agree. Also a spirit of Justice is so much more strict than a spirit of Faith. The codex mentions spirits of Justice do everything in their power to uphold their name, even if it means they will perish for it.

Also my main point was Anders' initial anger changed Justice, I was not talking about afterwards. But I like the changes in Anders in friendship route after sparing him. I definitely saw something worth saving and redeeming.

 

Oh, definitely. I didn't mean to imply that his anger was irrelevant or didn't have any effect at all - just that there were loads and loads of other emotions and feelings that affected him as well.

 

I think the change that happends with Anders after you spare him is that he's no longer desperate - he's regained a bit of hope and trust in himself, in Hawke (for not killing him/sending him away and giving him the benefit of the doubt and a new chance), and in the world around him. I think the way he acts during and after the Chantry explosion really underlines how badly he really didn't want to do it and how much it pains him it eventually came to that, and I'm almost positive he was expecting a knife in the back no matter what your relationship with him is (trying to give his pillow to Varric is quite clear sign of this, IMO). I honestly think he's glad for the opportunity to stay in the fight for both a chance to help the mages and for the chance to redeem himself in the future. If Hawke spares him, he finally comes to the realisation that this is a fight that they (as in mages) can actually win, that he's not alone in it, and that he might even live to see something good coming out of something so violent and tragic as what has been happening in the Circles in general and what happened in Kirkwall in particular.

 

And I think that that, right there, is why I am willing to forgive him in the end and why I like him and his character arc so much. Anders' journey is filled with really difficult emotions and despair and loneliness, which he suffers not because he deserves it, or for anything he's ever done (except for being born a mage), but because he cares too much. And even then, in the end, his story ends with a hopeful note: there's a point to his suffering and a chance for him to redeem himself.

[KatDancer]

I like Anders quite a bit.  I liked him when we first met him in Awakenings as the charming wiseguy who thought (as the Warden Commander did) that he'd just been handed freedom (of a sort).  When we meet him again we see that the abuses of the Circle combined with his reasons for leaving the Wardens and the merging with Justice have made him a changed man.  The Anders of Awakening was horrified at Wynne's suggestion that the Circle be separated from the Chantry; the Anders we meet scant years later is a revolutionary being driven to free his people.

 

It took him seven years to get to the point of blowing up that Chantry and the comparatively few people in it, all complicit in the horrible mistreatment of mages.  Seven years of writing, reasoning, and smuggling people out when Hawke and his friends were witness to the abuses of the Circle.  If Hawke and his companion s were caught flatfooted by the endgame, it's because they never respected Anders enough to actually hear what he was saying..

 

I never have him killed.  He puts everyone else before himself always -- a god man driven to desperate measures.

 

 

[NoForgiveness]

*raises hand* I like Anders.... *runs away before the lynch mob comes*

[Xilizhra]

*raises hand* I like Anders.... *runs away before the lynch mob comes*

No lynch mobs. We clearly outnumber the haters.

[The Hierophant]

oh please.

[Dutchess]

No lynch mobs. We clearly outnumber the haters.

 

"Haters" is it now? Oh my.

[Lulupab]

Hater is the general term for it, don't take it too literal. And we always have outnumbered you, you can dig up more Anders threads to prove it. In his Tumblr David Gaider has admitted he is quite happy with how Anders turned out (he is original writer of this character) and that Anders was meant to make people have different reactions to him. Evidently some condone, some understood and some loathed.

[TheMadHarridan]

It's not being a "hater" to point out the flaws of a character and not sing his praises. Do I hate Anders? No. I don't like him (and believe me, I've tried), but I'm entitled to my opinion just like the rest of the so called "haters," as you Anders "lovers" are entitled to yours. And I doubt we haters are the minority you think. I suspect a lot of us don't post because we don't want to get into a 20-page circular argument that goes nowhere. Ever.

[ThatCityElf]

This is an interesting question and its one I've pondered myself.

 

The first time I played Dragon Age 2 (all of five months ago: yes, I am very new to the Dragon Age Universe) I thought he was the creepiest person ever. I mean, he was intruding on my relationship with Fenris and trying to tell me that it was bad decision. Seriously, what a weirdo.

 

Then I helped make his bomb and he killed all those innocent people and...well, let's just say I was mad. Really mad. But I didn't kill him.

 

My answer is no, I do not like Anders. I hate him. However, since I try not to take video games too personally, like I try not to do with novels, movies etc., I am willing to see past his irritating qualities to discover a somewhat interesting character.

 

He's like Morrigan only 50x more annoying. Like her, he has his own goals and motivations and is morally ambiguous. He's also completely crazy and delusional, which is difficult to tolerate, and he is the only companion that could not be stopped or ignored in his endeavors.  He may have been far from likable, but he certainly had more depth than probably all the other companions combined. I like to think that if his character had only had more time to be fleshed out, or if it had been written in a book instead of a video game, more people would understand his dilemma. I don't blindly condemn him because I have analyzed him and realized that his purpose is meant to be a tragic, polarizing figure and that he is meant to make fans question the morality behind his final decision.

 

That's the only reason why I don't kill him. He's interesting, if sanctimonious and underdeveloped.

[sylvanaerie]

Hater is the general term for it, don't take it too literal. And we always have outnumbered you, you can dig up more Anders threads to prove it. In his Tumblr David Gaider has admitted he is quite happy with how Anders turned out (he is original writer of this character) and that Anders was meant to make people have different reactions to him. Evidently some condone, some understood and some loathed.

 

I think you underestimate the number of people who dislike the character.  I've seen a lot of posts from those who say they dislike him (as much as I've seen fans who support him).  He's been very polarizing and if that was Gaider's mission, he succeeded.

 

It's not being a "hater" to point out the flaws of a character and not sing his praises. Do I hate Anders? No. I don't like him (and believe me, I've tried), but I'm entitled to my opinion just like the rest of the so called "haters," as you Anders "lovers" are entitled to yours. And I doubt we haters are the minority you think. I suspect a lot of us don't post because we don't want to get into a 20-page circular argument that goes nowhere. Ever.

 

This has been my experience pretty much.  It's hard to discuss a character when the players are so diametrically opposed to each other's viewpoints.  Some of the discussions have frankly made me uncomfortable--I've seen players who completely supported his actions which is an inconceivable attitude to me--so I've pretty much tried to just stay out of them though occasionally I get sucked in (as with this thread).

[LucienKyle]

In awakening ,Anders is a girly guy playing with cats thinking he is the most handsome one in the world  .I can take that since I can just take him as another clown character. 

 

And I even happily accept his returning in DA2 since the sprite JUSTICE is bad ass in awakening  ,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

then I found out he automatically thinks I am a bad guy siding with Templar just because I don't want to sleep with him  

 

......................

[LucienKyle]

I think you underestimate the number of people who dislike the character.  I've seen a lot of posts from those who say they dislike him (as much as I've seen fans who support him).  He's been very polarizing and if that was Gaider's mission, he succeeded.

 

 

This has been my experience pretty much.  It's hard to discuss a character when the players are so diametrically opposed to each other's viewpoints.  Some of the discussions have frankly made me uncomfortable--I've seen players who completely supported his actions which is an inconceivable attitude to me--so I've pretty much tried to just stay out of them though occasionally I get sucked in (as with this thread).

that is the nature of a homosexual character , you can easily gain a large amount of female fans while the same amount of guys think it is a meaningless character wasting pages

[whanzephruseke]

that is the nature of a homosexual character , you can easily gain a large amount of female fans while the same amount of guys think it is a meaningless character wasting pages

 

While your statement may be true, Anders's sexual orientation isn't what makes him a polarizing character.

[Althix]

that is the nature of a homosexual character

to be a dangerous abomination? good to know.

[sylvanaerie]

that is the nature of a homosexual character , you can easily gain a large amount of female fans while the same amount of guys think it is a meaningless character wasting pages

 

His sexual orientation--and Anders is not gay, he's bisexual and was 'asexual' in Awakenings--has nothing to do with my dislike for him, and assuming his fans are all female is an error.  I've seen lots of posters who like him who are guys.  And seen a fair number of women who don't like him.

 

And for the record, I hate the character and I'm female.  So this blanket statement is pure speculation on your part.