It was Aveline's job. And once Aveline stopped keeping Hawke out of the loop, Hawke was never stupid about it. Aveline was just completely idiotic.
And Hawke was the one who had been investigating the crime, knew about the white lilies calling-card, and failed to mention this to his widowed mother who was starting to look for suitors?
Aveline failed, but so did Hawke. As did the Templars, the City Guard, and dear old Gascard failed.
Can't the same be said about Hawke? You're the nominated Champion, it's your duty to serve as Kirkwall protector, and Hawke fails at that spectacularly when you fail to stop Anders from bombing the Chantry and launching the city into an state of chaotic hysteria.
I'm not going to deny Hawke failed, but I don't think this argument in that direction works.
A: Hawke isn't technically in charge of the police, and therefore isn't in charge of running murder investigations. In fact, while I could be wrong I don't think Hawke was given any responsibility or power. I'm pretty sure Hawke just got something to decorate a business card with.
B: I haven't played DA2, so again I could be wrong on this, but doesn't Hawke become the Champion after Leandra dies?
I'm not going to deny Hawke failed, but I don't think this argument in that direction works.
A: Hawke isn't technically in charge of the police, and therefore isn't in charge of running murder investigations. In fact, while I could be wrong I don't think Hawke was given any responsibility or power. I'm pretty sure Hawke just got something to decorate a business card with.
B: I haven't played DA2, so again I could be wrong on this, but doesn't Hawke become the Champion after Leandra dies?
well if it isn't protecting the city, it is his own mother. Who is she dating? Hawke has no time for that
well if it isn't protecting the city, it is his own mother. Who is she dating? Hawke has no time for that
That's better.
I'm not going to deny Hawke failed, but I don't think this argument in that direction works.
A: Hawke isn't technically in charge of the police, and therefore isn't in charge of running murder investigations. In fact, while I could be wrong I don't think Hawke was given any responsibility or power. I'm pretty sure Hawke just got something to decorate a business card with.
B: I haven't played DA2, so again I could be wrong on this, but doesn't Hawke become the Champion after Leandra dies?
A: This is true. But at the same time Aveline probably isn't personally running every single investigation in Kirkwall. She has officers for that.
B: That's true. However on at least two occassions Hawke had been asked to investigate the disappearance and murder of women. Hawke is in a position to know more than just about anyone alive about the killer.
I really like her, especially when she calls out Hawke for his/her idiocy.
A: This is true. But at the same time Aveline probably isn't personally running every single investigation in Kirkwall. She has officers for that.
B: That's true. However on at least two occassions Hawke had been asked to investigate the disappearance and murder of women. Hawke is in a position to know more than just about anyone alive about the killer.
A: Yes, but if the Captain of the guards stumbles across something that one of her subordinates might need to do what she's ordering them to do, you'd think she'd share it.
B: Yes, and he should have shared it with Aveline. Even if she didn't pass it on, it wouldn't have been his failure. None of this is me denying Hawke failed. All I'm saying is that Aveline did too, and that unlike Aveline, Hawke wasn't supposed to be the one officially in charge of preventing exactly what was going on.
A: Yes, but if the Captain of the guards stumbles across something that one of her subordinates might need to do what she's ordering them to do, you'd think she'd share it.
B: Yes, and he should have shared it with Aveline. Even if she didn't pass it on, it wouldn't have been his failure. None of this is me denying Hawke failed. All I'm saying is that Aveline did too, and that unlike Aveline, Hawke wasn't supposed to be the one officially in charge of preventing exactly what was going on.
I think the main point here is that it's unfair to criticize Aveline for being incompetent when Hawke him/herself it's just as bad.
This whole tangent about All That Remains is rendered moot by the fact that the devs purposefully removed any option to save Leandra because they didn't like the fact that people took them rather than let her be butchered. I don't think any character should be blamed for how this quest turned out since everyone involved was forced to act like morons by the people who made the game.
Can't the same be said about Hawke? You're the nominated Champion, it's your duty to serve as Kirkwall protector, and Hawke fails at that spectacularly when you fail to stop Anders from bombing the Chantry and launching the city into an state of chaotic hysteria.
What does that have to do with Aveline?
Her response to Hawke blaming her was awesome. Made Hawke look like a child.
I'm... disappointed in Aveline's apparent total lack of acknowledgement for the rather astonishing oversight.
And Hawke was the one who had been investigating the crime, knew about the white lilies calling-card, and failed to mention this to his widowed mother who was starting to look for suitors?
Aveline failed, but so did Hawke. As did the Templars, the City Guard, and dear old Gascard failed.
Gascard mentioned "few social ties;" Leandra doesn't seem to fall into that category. I suppose Quentin had just stopped caring about attracting attention because he was almost finished.
A: This is true. But at the same time Aveline probably isn't personally running every single investigation in Kirkwall. She has officers for that.
B: That's true. However on at least two occassions Hawke had been asked to investigate the disappearance and murder of women. Hawke is in a position to know more than just about anyone alive about the killer.
And Aveline does know all that Hawke knows. Namely that they found a bag of bones in a foundry after seeing a man in a gray robe run away, and then everyone was attacked by demons. This does not lend itself very well to dismissing everything as a coincidence; if "scavengers" gathered the bones together, why the hell would they break into a Lowtown foundry to dump the bag when they could have just dropped it down a Darktown sewer?
I really like her, especially when she calls out Hawke for his/her idiocy.
I do sometimes get a Dresden/Murphy vice from them 
I think the main point here is that it's unfair to criticize Aveline for being incompetent when Hawke him/herself it's just as bad.
Yes. Yes it is
well if it isn't protecting the city, it is his own mother. Who is she dating? Hawke has no time for that
Leandra refused to tell Hawke anything should she inquire. What is she going to do, twist her arm for answers? She is, after all, a grown ass woman. She can't babysit her. If anything, Kirkwall is pretty much screwed with how little the guard can do.
And you would be right, my point is that it is equally absurd to lay blame on aveline's feet. When we should be blaming Quentin, no?
Aveline made mistakes in this case, which makes her seem human to me.
I think the main point here is that it's unfair to criticize Aveline for being incompetent when Hawke him/herself it's just as bad.
It's really not. Putting aside the fact that another person being just as bad doesn't mean Aveline should be excused, Hawke is a civilian. Aveline is supposed to be a professional. She's supposed to be the most competent professional in the guards. Hawke's and Aveline's shared incompetence looks much worse in her than in Hawke.
If you want to blame anyone for the failure of catching Quentin then blame the templar order, since Hawke tells them there were shades in the foundry. This makes it a magical matter which means the Templars are responsible for investigating the area/murders.
That means they're more responsible than either Hawke or Aveline. That said, the former two still to some degree dropped the ball.
It's really not. Putting aside the fact that another person being just as bad doesn't mean Aveline should be excused, Hawke is a civilian. Aveline is supposed to be a professional. She's supposed to be the most competent professional in the guards. Hawke's and Aveline's shared incompetence looks much worse in her than in Hawke.
That's unresonable. You pretty much are asking for Aveline to be an perfect human being that never fails or makes an mistake. Is there any cop ever that never failed at an investigation or to save someone from being killed?
I don't see a reason why I should hate her even as true neutral Hawke who stick his neck only for his family/very close friend, but I may disagree with Aveline's ideal sometimes. Frankly I respect Aveline even though she's a bit self-righteous and too dutiful, but I'll trust her to watch my back than Isabela.
Do I like Aveline?
Sure. I can appreciate a strong woman, in body and spirit, and she's got her heart in the right place. She's about as nice a person as a corrupt city police chief can be hoped to be, even with her ongoing conflicts of interest and selective application of the law. Or should I say especially? She's a better person than a guard captain, but that's a higher bar than it sounds.
Plus, I crack up at the copper marigolds. Next time I get serious about dating, I'm going to have to give some as a gift.
Aveline is interesting. She is a three dimensional female character who is strong and yet not sexualized which I appreciate to the nth degree. But I think I love her more in theory than I actually enjoy her character/personality.
It is hard not to appreciate what her character brought to the game though since each character brought something different.
That's unresonable. You pretty much are asking for Aveline to be an perfect human being that never fails or makes an mistake. Is there any cop ever that never failed at an investigation or to save someone from being killed?
What I'm asking is that she actually put in some effort. Quentin was still using an area that Hawke and Aveline had raided. Unless I'm mistaken he was using it as his main sanctum. And Aveline implies it hadn't occurred to her that there was something else there. Asking for competence isn't asking for perfection.
I love, love, love Aveline. One of the reasons is her condolences to Hawke after Leandra is killed. Her description of her father's illness is almost exactly like my own experience with my dying father. It makes me bawl my eyes out every time, but I also find it incredibly comforting.
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