185 réponses à ce sujet

[KaiserShep]

I didn't know kings in Thedas were hunted down if they took it upon themselves to leave their castles.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I didn't know kings in Thedas were hunted down if they took it upon themselves to leave their castles.

Im talking about live conditions that they are captured doesn't make their lives horrible in any way... unless you are pro-mage of course then you see capturing part as ritual where templars torture mages but well we know how close that is to truth...

[KaiserShep]

Im talking about live conditions that they are captured doesn't make their lives horrible in any way... unless you are pro-mage of course then you see capturing part as ritual where templars torture mages but well we know how close that is to truth...

 

Don't forget the part where the Templars systematically flog the mages and wake them with a lash of the cat-o-nines before the mile hike through the Circle courtyard, after which they goosestep back to their barracks to talk about anti-mage stuff.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Don't forget the part where the Templars systematically flog the mages and wake them with a lash of the cat-o-nines before the mile hike through the Circle courtyard, after which they goosestep back to their barracks to talk about anti-mage stuff.

See even you mocked that (or at least i think you did you can't rly tell in that matter).Even in kirkwall bethany was happy in circle so well...

[Fortlowe]

Saarebas have a tough row to hoe. Are we certain this is how ALL mages are treated by the Qunari? Anyways, as a group, Saarebas have it the worst. Still, slavery is no cakewalk. In the right, or perhaps more accurately, the very wrongest circumstances, slavery is an unchecked avenue through which human depravity and cruelty can flow. As tough as a Qunari mages life may be, it cannot get worse. The Qunari will only subject them to the bondage that is standard for their circumstance and would not unduly cause additional suffering to the mage. I don't agree with their method, but I do believe they are not prone to sadism.

For a slave in Tevinter, or any sort of slavery, life can ALWAYS get worse.

[KaiserShep]

See even you mocked that (or at least i think you did you can't rly tell in that matter).Even in kirkwall bethany was happy in circle so well...

 

I mock because being flippant seems to be the only really good way to deal with this subject most of the time.

 

Anyway, regarding Bethany's letter:

 

 

Dear Hawke,

 

I hope this letter finds you well. My time in the Circle has been bearable, even after the templars made a point of putting me through the Harrowing as soon as I arrived. They thought I was at risk of possession or running away like Father. Glad it's over with.

 

I've started mentoring apprentices. I enjoy time with the children, teaching them basic spells. One of them, Ella, has taken a shine to me. Adorable!

 

Life's not perfect here, mind you. The templars are mostly polite, and I know they're just doing their jobs, but some hold extreme views. There's one creep named Ser Alrik who likes harassing mages, but I'll steer clear of him!

 

I'm doing fine! Please don't worry about me.

 

With love,
Bethany

 

Putting aside for a moment that it was a really poor choice to have Bethany call her own sister or brother "Hawke" in the letter, nothing in this letter suggests to me that she's actually happy in the Circle, but rather resigned to her place. She seems to be making the most of it, but I don't see anything beyond her time with young apprentices that she finds at all a pleasure for her. The fact that she's surrounded by an armed force that evidently have some that express extreme views is not conducive to a positive atmosphere, to say the least, especially if the scum Alrik is lurking about the place. At least Hawke can take care of that little issue at some point.

[Helios969]

Orlesian Nobility.  I mean who wants to be forced to eat all those stinky cheeses and ham that tastes like despair.

[Medhia_Nox]

@KaiserShep:  You might get a letter like that from ANY person in an institution (boot camp, military school, summer camp) however.  

 

It's actually very neutral - bordering on positive to me.

[TheKomandorShepard]

I mock because being flippant seems to be the only really good way to deal with this subject most of the time.

 

Anyway, regarding Bethany's letter:

 

 

Putting aside for a moment that it was a really poor choice to have Bethany call her own sister or brother "Hawke" in the letter, nothing in this letter suggests to me that she's actually happy in the Circle, but rather resigned to her place. She seems to be making the most of it, but I don't see anything beyond her time with young apprentices that she finds at all a pleasure for her. The fact that she's surrounded by an armed force that evidently have some that express extreme views is not conducive to a positive atmosphere, to say the least, especially if the scum Alrik is lurking about the place. At least Hawke can take care of that little issue at some point.

 

Pretty much she is fine with it and enjoy time in circle even more pointed in dlc banters where anders try to verbally attack her for being circle mage.Pretty much some and most templars are fine as she points and also mages in circles can tell you that everything is fine if you are pro-mage.So "worst" circle as far was fine.

[Gileadan]

I think the average serfs and peasants have it pretty rough. It's them who die when bloodmages or abominations roam the lands, templars start a random crackdown, qunari invade, dalish raid a village and what not. And unfortunately for them, they lack pointy ears, horns, magic ability, demonic possession and all that, making them so boring and uninteresting that no one takes their side.

[LOLandStuff]

A nug in Dust Town or a cat in Darktown.

[CapivaRasgor]

Castless dwarves, hands down. After that alienage elves and being a serf(especially in Orlais).

Circle Mages don't have it all that bad, toss the freedom vs security dilemma aside a bit, circle mages are fed, educated, given shelter and protected. I'm not going to argue that living under constant watch from often passive aggressive wardens sucks but it sure as hell beats living at the mercy of a noble, not knowing if this year will yield a harvestable crop or if you have to keep yourself in your toes in order not be qbused killed on sight by a drunk Chevalier.

[KaiserShep]

So I guess unless someone is sending a letter illustrating agony, everything must be A-OK.

 

@KaiserShep:  You might get a letter like that from ANY person in an institution (boot camp, military school, summer camp) however.  

 

It's actually very neutral - bordering on positive to me.

 

I don't consider these adequate examples for a few reasons. For one, these institutions are optional (at least beyond the time when drafts were in effect). More importantly, all of these institutions are temporary. You're not going to live and die in boot camp, military school or summer camp, unless a fatal accident makes it happen within the few months or few years that you're there. It's the permanence of the Circle that makes all the difference. You don't get to retire, and there are no benefits. You're just there, and you're at the mercy of the Templars. Forever. Whether or not I agree with this system has no effect whatsoever on my view that it is a form of imprisonment. To live outside of the Circle as a mage makes that mage illegal, and refusal to go comes with the threat of death or being rendered tranquil, regardless of your contribution to society outside of it, save for being conscripted into the Grey Wardens or becoming a magister in Tevinter.

[TheKomandorShepard]

So I guess unless someone is sending a letter illustrating agony, everything must be A-OK.

 

 

I don't consider these adequate examples for a few reasons. For one, these institutions are optional (at least beyond the time when drafts were in effect). More importantly, all of these institutions are temporary. You're not going to live and die in boot camp, military school or summer camp, unless a fatal accident makes it happen within the few months or few years that you're there. It's the permanence of the Circle that makes all the difference. You don't get to retire, and there are no benefits. You're just there, and you're at the mercy of the Templars. Forever. Whether or not I agree with this system has no effect whatsoever on my view that it is a form of imprisonment. To live outside of the Circle as a mage makes that mage illegal, and refusal to go comes with the threat of death or being rendered tranquil, regardless of your contribution to society outside of it, save for being conscripted into the Grey Wardens or becoming a magister in Tevinter.

No benefits please as i said they live like kings as they have one of best live conditions in thedas and they don't have to do anything... not mention they have protection that templars provide them otherwise folks would (for good reasons) kill them.Pretty much mages have far much more benefit from that deal than templars or folks.Also we know some mages are allowed to leave at least temporarily so well... 

 

In this case yes it is ok as she says everything is fine as well in dlc so forcibly seeking abuse like anders will make you only wrong like ander was 99 % of time when he was talking on that topic.

[DrBlingzle]

Darkspawn.

 

Everybody hates you, you have the insatiable desire to kill everything, no free will and just imagine all the "ya mum" jokes...

[KaiserShep]

No benefits please as i said they live like kings as they have one of best live conditions in thedas and they don't have to do anything... not mention they have protection that templars provide them otherwise folks would (for good reasons) kill them.Pretty much mages have far much more benefit from that deal than templars or folks.Also we know some mages are allowed to leave at least temporarily so well... 

 

In this case yes it is ok as she says everything is fine as well in dlc so forcibly seeking abuse like anders will make you only wrong like ander was 99 % of time when he was talking on that topic.

 

I assume that "like kings" is just a phrase used to exaggerate because they don't live like the poor slobs stuck in the filthy armpits of Thedas, but they certainly do not live like nobility, who can own land, property, and do what they want with their lives. That they can leave temporarily does not really change the fact that they must devote their lives to some form of institution whether they like it or not. That the Templars protect them within this institution is not a benefit, because the order has only two modes of existence: kill or detain.

[Hydwn]

Those who are tainted, especially broodmothers in my opinion

 

Yeah.  This is pretty much it.  It's never clear if the women who became broodmothers are still in there in an "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" kind of way, but if so that's the worst imaginable horror Thedas has thrown up yet.

 

But it's a pretty dark and dismal world.  That was pretty much the intent when they labelled "Dark Fantasy."  I notice that the World of Thedas mentioned that the Qun was invented when its founder Koslun travelled the world and saw how miserable everyone was everywhere, except a few powerful overclasses, and invented the Qun to remedy that.  I don't think it's actually working...

[TheKomandorShepard]

I assume that "like kings" is just a phrase used to exaggerate because they don't live like the poor slobs stuck in the filthy armpits of Thedas, but they certainly do not live like nobility, who can own land, property, and do what they want with their lives. That they can leave temporarily does not really change the fact that they must devote their lives to some form of institution whether they like it or not. That the Templars protect them within this institution is not a benefit, because if this wasn't their task, then the Templars would have simply been a death force charged with the duty of simply killing all mages on sight in lieu of any Circle system (which I assume you'd prefer).

As i said i meant conditions and they live like kings (it seems you ignored that to just show my point as wrong) and unlike kings they don't have to do anything .Yes because as we know if you can't own lads you are abused and miserable... They don't have to devote their lives all they are forced is live in circles that is all they have enough freedom to abuse it and become corrupted... In fact they have better conditions than prisoners in modern days and better conditions than most people in modern times save for technological advances.And no nobles can't do whatever they want for example see Inq human backstory...

 

Yes it is pretty much you have admited that templars protect mages (well at least technically along with their true goal to protect non-mages) otherwise mages would end slaughtered by folks like in times before templars and templars do that at price of their health. 

[TheJediSaint]

Any Orleasian noble who shows up at a ball, only to discover another noble has the exact same outfit.

 

The horror!

[LOLandStuff]

Any Orleasian noble who shows up at a ball, only to discover another noble has the exact same outfit.

 

The horror!

 

I don't even want to imagine what that poor noble must feel like.

[TheJediSaint]

I don't even want to imagine what that poor noble must feel like.

There aren't words to describe the suffering they must feel.

[TheDragonOfWhy]

A cage is still a cage, even when it is made of gold.

That said, everyone in The DA setting has it rough. That's the setting, it's a crap sack world with horrors and injustice everywhere you go, ruled over by the inept, the corrupt or the plain villainous.

[KaiserShep]

A cage is still a cage, even when it is made of gold.

 

Zevran actually says something like this in Origins if you discuss the Crows with him.

 

"It's a cage, if a gilded cage. Pretty, but confining."

[Reznore57]

Yeah.  This is pretty much it.  It's never clear if the women who became broodmothers are still in there in an "I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream" kind of way, but if so that's the worst imaginable horror Thedas has thrown up yet.

 

 

 

It seems like they are like the Darkspawn , all they think about is the Archdemon song.

In DA:Awakening ,the Mother stop hearing the song , and well obviously she's unhappy (and a bit insane ) and wants to hear it back ASAP .

[BraveVesperia]

Quite a few of them have it pretty bad: slaves, mages, elves of all varieties, even Wardens (I'd argue this, unless you're one of those like Carver who enjoy the life).

 

The Casteless definitely have it worst. They're subjugated by their own people, and aren't even allowed to have proper jobs, so they turn to crime. The women's best shot is to prostitute themselves to some noble, and if they end up with a female child then they're even worse off. I remember there was even a guy willing to buy Brosca's teeth, that's how little the Casteless have to sustain themselves with. The darkspawn are encroaching, and if Kal Hirol is any indication, the Castes would use them as a 'human' barricade to buy them time to flee. They could go to the surface, but they've been filled with so much superstition that they'd be too afraid to go. Even if they did, what money would they have to start a life there?

 

That's just scratching the surface, I'm sure.