185 réponses à ce sujet

[WarriorOfLight999]

All this talk of how mages have it pretty well sounds like Stockholm syndrome to me. Nevertheless, others do have it worse.

[TheKomandorShepard]

A conceptual prison is not the same as a physical one. It's clear that we won't agree concerning this issue, and I feel as though we're derailing this thread a bit by turning part of it in to a Mage/Templar debate. I think we should agree to disagree on this matter within this thread.

 

(But to take this back on track) I still stand by my views on Saarebas I mentioned earlier, but on a personal level becoming a tranquil would be the worse in my books (Broodmothers withstanding, yikes),

Devs said that at worst you can see circle as prison but you can see it as a lot things circles exist to control mages and as i said a lot peoples in thedas don't have any of things that mages have so no mages don't have bad as i said if it is prison it is person a lot peoples would love to live.As one person said you can compare it to being forced live in palace... 

[Br3admax]

All this talk of how mages have it pretty well sounds like Stockholm syndrome to me. Nevertheless, others do have it worse.

It actually sounds nothing like that. 

[LostInReverie19]

Mages and elves definitely have it the worst. If you're an elven mage, you've got to deal with the double whammy of mistrust and prejudice! 

[Br3admax]

Mages and elves definitely have it the worst. If you're an elven mage, you've got to deal with the double whammy of mistrust and prejudice! 

Lest we forget these two make up BioWare's Mary Sue brigade. Make it female and they're practically a god. 

[Drasanil]

It actually sounds nothing like that. 

 

Stop OPPRESSING me with free health care and education and one of the highest standards of living in Thedas...you evil fascists Chantry-Templars!

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Lest we forget these two make up BioWare's Mary Sue brigade. Make it female and they're practically a god. 

*goddess

[Br3admax]

*goddess

Are you implying that a female elf mage can't be a god, regardless of gender? Because they can. They can be anything. 

[Riverdaleswhiteflash]

Are you implying that a female elf mage can't be a god, regardless of gender? Because they can. They can be anything. 

Really? Because I've only ever found a gender-bending mod for the Human Female.

[Br3admax]

Really? Because I've only ever found a gender-bending mod for the Human Female.

BioWare didn't write that mod. N-Canon as ****. 

[Wolfen09]

Alienage elves:  To be specific, in orlais.  They can literally be killed at a moments notice for nothing but sport.  Though Celene has tried to improve life for them little by little, it is still a delicate time to be an alienage elf in orlais.

 

Dalish:  Technically free, bunch of whiners cause they cant remember or reclaim their past.  They are better off than most.

 

Casteless Dwarves:  I would hope life would improve as Bhelen was made king in all my playthroughs.  But as of what we knew in Da:O, they were no better off than the alienage elves.  Unless they made it to the surface, which really had me wondering.... could they voluntarily leave orzammar, like just walk up into the commons and walk out the front door?  Doubt they could, otherwise everyone would have done that.

 

Dwarves:  It sucks to be short, it sucks to have a low birth rate, it sucks to have monsters on your doorstep 24/7.  However, bringing destruction on ones self due to tradition (I.E. not letting casteless fight) gets no sympathy from me.

 

Humans:  Nobles have it good, farmers, well it sucks... especially since the breach is happening and there isnt any protection because gaspard and celene are fighting eachother and the mages and templars are using your wheat fields for battlegrounds....  Might as well hang yourself and the kids, cause if the war doesnt get ya, the demons will.

 

Mages:  Well, it sucks to be a mage in general....  Most are either dead, joined the wardens, fighting the templars, or fled to Tevinter....  So, technically as of now they are free to do what they wish....  yeah you still got the being persecuted by general populace for being a mage, and constant threat of demonic possession, but at least you can kill templars on a whim now.

 

Me:  Sucks to be me, as DA:I is still a month away and i am bored out of my skull

[Reznore57]

Casteless Dwarves:  I would hope life would improve as Bhelen was made king in all my playthroughs.  But as of what we knew in Da:O, they were no better off than the alienage elves.  Unless they made it to the surface, which really had me wondering.... could they voluntarily leave orzammar, like just walk up into the commons and walk out the front door?  Doubt they could, otherwise everyone would have done that.

 

 

I think they can get out of Orzammar but possible things would get complicated once outside.

Orzammar  need the surface dwarves to survive , you have some "official" stuff like the Dwarven Merchant Guild , possible it's only for dwarves who used to be part of some caste.

And then you have the Carta ,I can imagine them bullying casteless until they work for them.

Besides casteless are uneducated , have nothing and no one bat an eye if they die .

[Wolfen09]

yeah, i understand the point of having to start over somewhere new.... but its always bugged me how they can literally have a better life if they just left, but they dont.... so im wondering if the casteless arent restricted from leaving.... maybe they have find ways to sneak out and escape or something, otherwise i dont know how to explain why so many people would stay

[TTTX]

yeah, i understand the point of having to start over somewhere new.... but its always bugged me how they can literally have a better life if they just left, but they dont.... so im wondering if the casteless arent restricted from leaving.... maybe they have find ways to sneak out and escape or something, otherwise i dont know how to explain why so many people would stay

They are probably scared of the big sky, which they think they can fall up in. 

[Wolfen09]

If it was live in poverty in a society where i have no chance of making life better for me or my kids, then id rather take the chance of falling into the sky than sit and do nothing.... but then again this is coming from someone on the outside.... not one who literally has lived under a rock their whole life

[Arvaarad]

Pretty much anything said about casteless also applies to Tevinter slaves. Sure, slaves don't get stitched onto a Harvester, but they're subject to blood magic experiments and unpredictable deaths just because their master needs to defeat a rival. Plus, they're less likely to be able to stay with their family unit or form long-term friendships, and they have to deal with escaping/getting freed if they want to leave.

That said, tranquil still have it worse. Regardless of how comfortable their outward situation may be, they're stuck with that sense of wrongness - their mind wants to speak, wants to fill them with emotions, but it's tied down. If emotions were cleanly severed, that would be fine. But as it is, it's no wonder that both former tranquil we've met have begged for death.

[Helios969]

Alienage elves: To be specific, in orlais. They can literally be killed at a moments notice for nothing but sport. Though Celene has tried to improve life for them little by little, it is still a delicate time to be an alienage elf in orlais.

Dalish: Technically free, bunch of whiners cause they cant remember or reclaim their past. They are better off than most.

Casteless Dwarves: I would hope life would improve as Bhelen was made king in all my playthroughs. But as of what we knew in Da:O, they were no better off than the alienage elves. Unless they made it to the surface, which really had me wondering.... could they voluntarily leave orzammar, like just walk up into the commons and walk out the front door? Doubt they could, otherwise everyone would have done that.

Dwarves: It sucks to be short, it sucks to have a low birth rate, it sucks to have monsters on your doorstep 24/7. However, bringing destruction on ones self due to tradition (I.E. not letting casteless fight) gets no sympathy from me.

Humans: Nobles have it good, farmers, well it sucks... especially since the breach is happening and there isnt any protection because gaspard and celene are fighting eachother and the mages and templars are using your wheat fields for battlegrounds.... Might as well hang yourself and the kids, cause if the war doesnt get ya, the demons will.

Mages: Well, it sucks to be a mage in general.... Most are either dead, joined the wardens, fighting the templars, or fled to Tevinter.... So, technically as of now they are free to do what they wish.... yeah you still got the being persecuted by general populace for being a mage, and constant threat of demonic possession, but at least you can kill templars on a whim now.

Me: Sucks to be me, as DA:I is still a month away and i am bored out of my skull

I'll second that.

[Inprea]

I would either say castles or mages. Now there is no doubt that the mages have far more material comforts then the castles but the dwarfs have one thing I value a great deal. The choice to leave. It may be with only the shirt on their back and the shoes on their feet, if they happen to own one or the other, but they can leave. 

 

How much gold is the ability to say, Screw this I'm going to the surface, worth to you?

[Kieran G.]

I would either say castles or mages. Now there is no doubt that the mages have far more material comforts then the castles but the dwarfs have one thing I value a great deal. The choice to leave. It may be with only the shirt on their back and the shoes on their feet, if they happen to own one or the other, but they can leave. 

 

How much gold is the ability to say, Screw this I'm going to the surface, worth to you?

Mage's can leave the tower. they just have to prove they have their magic under control.

[Inprea]

Mage's can leave the tower. they just have to prove they have their magic under control.

 

If that was true then none of the harrowed mages would have needed templar approval to go help fight the Darkspawn when their King and the Grey Warden's first asked for them. Due to the templars though less then ten were allowed to go.

[TTTX]

If that was true then none of the harrowed mages would have needed templar approval to go help fight the Darkspawn when their King and the Grey Warden's first asked for them. Due to the templars though less then ten were allowed to go.

and the Chantry.

[Kieran G.]

If that was true then none of the harrowed mages would have needed templar approval to go help fight the Darkspawn when their King and the Grey Warden's first asked for them. Due to the templars though less then ten were allowed to go.

All i'm stating is Mage's can leave their tower's if they are deemed responsible enough.

 

And i doubt casteless can just walk up through the commons and to the front door, since guards persecute any casteless that leaves dark town.

 

Casteless starve, Mage's do not. if a Casteless is killed, nothing is looked into, but if a mage is killed an investigation will be made.

 

How can you compare a Mage living a comfortable life while the casteless can be killed, raped, beaten, and no one even cares. Yes it sucks they cant choose to leave, and they can't raise their children.

But it must worse to watch your children starve than knowing they are being raised in the circle or chantry. Even Alienage Elves have it worse than Elven mage's. as we see in the circle, no one really cares your elf and you can even become First Enchanter. 

[Frogtoad51]

 

Stop oppressing me with free health care and education and one of the highest standards of living in Thedas.... You evil fascists chantry Templars!

That's only when the Circle functions like its supposed to. The Circle of Magi sucks now because the Templars have grown fanatical, constantly abuse their power, and make life miserable for the mages. The Templars all doing such a crappy job right now is why the mage rebellion is happening. 

[TTTX]

That's only when the Circle functions like its supposed to. The Circle of Magi sucks now because the Templars have grown fanatical, constantly abuse their power, and make life miserable for the mages. The Templars all doing such a crappy job right now is why the mage rebellion is happening. 

among other things it's also the Seekers fault for failing to keep the Templars in line when they stepped out of line as we saw in DA2.

[Inprea]

All i'm stating is Mage's can leave their tower's if they are deemed responsible enough.

 

And i doubt casteless can just walk up through the commons and to the front door, since guards persecute any casteless that leaves dark town.

 

Casteless starve, Mage's do not. if a Casteless is killed, nothing is looked into, but if a mage is killed an investigation will be made.

 

How can you compare a Mage living a comfortable life while the casteless can be killed, raped, beaten, and no one even cares. Yes it sucks they cant choose to leave, and they can't raise their children.

But it must worse to watch your children starve than knowing they are being raised in the circle or chantry. Even Alienage Elves have it worse than Elven mage's. as we see in the circle, no one really cares your elf and you can even become First Enchanter. 

 

Which the mages being prevented from going to Ostargar despite the request of their king disproves. It isn't a matter of if you've proven yourself but rather your connections. Which mages like enchanter Illana proves. Her father was a powerful noble so she could leave the circle whenever she wanted to and was even permitted to retire outside of the circle.

 

I don't recall a serious investigation being made when Ulrick made mages tranquil illegally or when they were murdered by a serial killer. There was one templar looking into it and he wasn't taken very seriously by the others. When do we see harm to a magbe being seriously investigated?

 

I never saw any resistance to a castles leaving Orzammar and never coming back.