185 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Templars don't abuse mages at least most of them not mages just have way too much freedom and it ends with corruption and later with disasters see mr orsino or uldred so templars are forced to use drastic measures to deal with them.Pretty much reason behind is mage corruption and horrible system that should prevent it but fails terribly.

[Master Warder Z_]

among other things it's also the Seekers fault for failing to keep the Templars in line when they stepped out of line as we saw in DA2.

 

How exactly do you reign in the largest templar army in the east without stepping on toes that could lead to schism?

 

I mean i have heard this statement for years now, and even though we have no idea what the Seekers were doing at the moment back while the Kirkwall issue was going on.

 

How exactly were they going to resolve it?

 

How do you reign in Templars who are that powerful without basically making a battle hardened army changing from being pissed off at mages to being pissed off at the Chantry?

[raging_monkey]

How exactly do you reign in the largest templar army in the east without stepping on toes that could lead to schism?
 
I mean i have heard this statement for years now, and even though we have no idea what the Seekers were doing at the moment back while the Kirkwall issue was going on.
 
How exactly were they going to resolve it?
 
How do you reign in Templars who are that powerful without basically making a battle hardened army changing from being pissed off at mages to being pissed off at the Chantry?

what are you thoughts on it curious i am

[Kieran G.]

Which the mages being prevented from going to Ostargar despite the request of their king disproves. It isn't a matter of if you've proven yourself but rather your connections. Which mages like enchanter Illana proves. Her father was a powerful noble so she could leave the circle whenever she wanted to and was even permitted to retire outside of the circle.

 

I don't recall a serious investigation being made when Ulrick made mages tranquil illegally or when they were murdered by a serial killer. There was one templar looking into it and he wasn't taken very seriously by the others. When do we see harm to a magbe being seriously investigated?

 

I never saw any resistance to a castles leaving Orzammar and never coming back.

Do not blame the templars since Orsino was hiding the evidence of that serial killer, and Ulrick was actually doing his duty, just with extreme prejudice. I'm not saying what he was doing was right but it was his duty. just the tranquil solution is what was turned down, him turning that woman tranquil was well in his right.

 

I'm just saying comparatively the Elves and casteless have much more of a reason to complain and rebel than any well dressed, well fed, well educated mage.

 

More to the point, i don't remember seeing any casteless dwarf leave orzammar beside our conscripted warden or sigrun.

 

If i was a casteless or city elf, i would happily go live in the circle for the rest of my life, at least i will know if ill have food in the morning.

[Inprea]

Do not blame the templars since Orsino was hiding the evidence of that serial killer, and Ulrick was actually doing his duty, just with extreme prejudice. I'm not saying what he was doing was right but it was his duty. just the tranquil solution is what was turned down, him turning that woman tranquil was well in his right.

 

I'm just saying comparatively the Elves and casteless have much more of a reason to complain and rebel than any well dressed, well fed, well educated mage.

 

More to the point, i don't remember seeing any casteless dwarf leave orzammar beside our conscripted warden or sigrun.

 

If i was a casteless or city elf, i would happily go live in the circle for the rest of my life, at least i will know if ill have food in the morning or not.

 

The templars knew that a mage had been murdered. The only templar that bothered to look into it even reported to Meredith. You can't blame her inaction on Orsino. The templars only believe they should have done something when one of their own is killed.  It's also not only unethical but also illegal to make a mage tranquil after they passed their harrowing which he was doing he was even torturing mages. He was not just doing his duty. If he was he wouldn't have had to threaten his own men to hide it from Meredith though I doubt she would have cared.

 

There is Sigrun's former friend who was made castles after Sigrun got her into hot water. They also don't prevent the dwarven mother from taking her son and going for the surface if you convince her to do so. If they were going to stop any dwarves from going to the surface it'd be those that have a cast after all once they've spent enough time on the surface they become castles. Unless you can note an example of a castles dwarf being prevented from leaving I don't see what you have to support your view point.

[Ammonite]

Do the saarebas count?

[Master Warder Z_]

Do the saarebas count?

 

Not to Qunari

 

I mean they aren't even recognized as "people".

[Kieran G.]

The templars knew that a mage had been murdered. The only templar that bothered to look into it even reported to Meredith. You can't blame her inaction on Orsino. The templars only believe they should have done something when one of their own is killed.  It's also not only unethical but also illegal to make a mage tranquil after they passed their harrowing which he was doing he was even torturing mages. He was not just doing his duty. If he was he wouldn't have had to threaten his own men to hide it from Meredith though I doubt she would have cared.

 

There is Sigrun's former friend who was made castles after Sigrun got her into hot water. They also don't prevent the dwarven mother from taking her son and going for the surface if you convince her to do so. If they were going to stop any dwarves from going to the surface it'd be those that have a cast after all once they've spent enough time on the surface they become castles. Unless you can note an example of a castles dwarf being prevented from leaving I don't see what you have to support your view point.

Its not illegal for mage's to make Mage's tranquil if they attempt to leave which we see. Actually i can blame her inaction completely on Orsino because he was keeping information of their murders from her, Merridith just thought they were escaping. 

 

The mother wasn't Casteless and we never see if the son has his tattoo or not. I can't note a Casteless be turned away from leaving but i can note that any casteless who leaves dust town is threaten by the guards. 

 

You cant use one group of Mage's as example for the treatment of every Mage, since the Mage Origin was pretty comfortable, while the Casteless was not, her sister was whoring herself, her mother drank herself under the table, they barely had enough food, and you had to commit crime. You even see that your oldest and greatest friend Betrayed you when you returned. Before the events of Kirkwall Mage's really didn't have that bad of a life, templars didn't come in a rape them when ever they choose, unlike the Chevaliers/Nobles do to the Elves. 

 

Mage's don't have to pay for anything, they get free rooms, as we see it aren't persecuted because of race, always have food on their table, have one of the best educations in any thedasian nation, How can you say mage's have it rough because when they escape they get punished, or when they use blood magic they get killed, Or when Their first enchanter who is supposed to help them, purposely makes Decisions which only makes the Templars have to crack down harder. Merridith was crazy and over Zealous, But Orsino was the one who was really making lives worse for the Mage's, not just the Few Templars who were sadists.  

 

And at least the Templars can say they were following orders, but when Mage's use blood magic, its because they are selfish and weak. Mage's don't have it that bad at all comparatively.

 

And even if a casteless is able to leave. what can he do? just walk to denerim? he doesn't have money so he can't get travel to anywhere. the only thing they can really do is join the carta and hope they aren't killed when the carta get what they want or get tired of them. Mage's they can complete their assignment and go right back to their comfortable life in the Circles.

[Daerog]

Does the Fade count?

 

How about the souls that are enslaved and imprisoned by demons? Damned to live nightmares possibly for centuries or forever until someone can step in to save them somehow.

 

As mages seem to be the most hunted, I'd say it sucks to be a mage, not because of the Circle, but because of the danger of demons. Then again, anyone can be taken by a demon where the Veil is thin or if there is a careless mage nearby.

 

It also sucks to be a Grey Warden, as many Wardens are taken against their will, forced to be given magical cancer and fight nightmarish monsters.

 

Being a poor, homeless, peasant would also suck, but that is a given.

[boissiere]

I was always wondering why mages were so frightened while some templars can bring the same amount of guts everywhere than a mage...

Even though I found Fenris a litle too hard to handle, I understand why mages ruling a country may be extremely frightening!

[Inprea]

Its not illegal for mage's to make Mage's tranquil if they attempt to leave which we see. Actually i can blame her inaction completely on Orsino because he was keeping information of their murders from her, Merridith just thought they were escaping. 

 

The mother wasn't Casteless and we never see if the son has his tattoo or not. I can't note a Casteless be turned away from leaving but i can note that any casteless who leaves dust town is threaten by the guards. 

 

You cant use one group of Mage's as example for the treatment of every Mage, since the Mage Origin was pretty comfortable, while the Casteless was not, her sister was whoring herself, her mother drank herself under the table, they barely had enough food, and you had to commit crime. You even see that your oldest and greatest friend Betrayed you when you returned. Before the events of Kirkwall Mage's really didn't have that bad of a life, templars didn't come in a rape them when ever they choose, unlike the Chevaliers/Nobles do to the Elves. 

 

Mage's don't have to pay for anything, they get free rooms, as we see it aren't persecuted because of race, always have food on their table, have one of the best educations in any thedasian nation, How can you say mage's have it rough because when they escape they get punished, or when they use blood magic they get killed, Or when Their first enchanter who is supposed to help them, purposely makes Decisions which only makes the Templars have to crack down harder. Merridith was crazy and over Zealous, But Orsino was the one who was really making lives worse for the Mage's, not just the Few Templars who were sadists.  

 

And at least the Templars can say they were following orders, but when Mage's use blood magic, its because they are selfish and weak. Mage's don't have it that bad at all comparatively.

 

And even if a casteless is able to leave. what can he do? just walk to denerim? he doesn't have money so he can't get travel to anywhere. the only thing they can really do is join the carta and hope they aren't killed when the carta get what they want or get tired of them. Mage's they can complete their assignment and go right back to their comfortable life in the Circles.

 

Where do we see that making a mage that passed their harrowing tranquil is legal? I sure don't recall seeing anything to that affect. Indeed http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Tranquil even mentions that it's technically illegal according to chantry law. It's only when the first enchanter is weak that law is ignored. It's also mentioned by Anders that making a harrowed mage is illegal this is even brought up in Dragon Age awakening I believe before he joined with justice. It was noted as a rule they probably regretted considering how many times he ran.

 

How about offering some examples to back up your claims?

 

Threatening isn't stopping them from leaving.

 

Pretty comfortable? If you talk to Irving he mentions that the circle is some place you survive rather then live in. That doesn't imply comfort. It's a pretty cage. Further more your statement that I can't base what all mages go through on one group can be applied to you. You don't have any idea how common abuse is in the circles that we haven't seen. Practice what you preach.

 

They get their children taken from them, they have to constantly be fearful of their actions as they're constantly being watched and they're forced into a death match against a demon at least once in their life. Further more the people that are suppose to protect them have a remarkable tendency to abandon them or turn on them. As we see at the gallows which the mages that weren't responsible for Anders actions, as Gregor had called for the annulment already and locked the mages in and even when we picked up the shield http://dragonage.wik...of_the_Resolute. It's noted that only one templar went to defend the mages. Thank goodness he was good at combat.

 

We see templars do more abandoning and turning on mages then we see them protecting them.

 

I don't consider following orders as an excuse and the circle has ranks as well. A senior enchanter outranks an apprentice after all. For all you know Uldred ordered the apprentices that followed him to study blood magic in preparation. He did have rank over them after all.

 

The castles has the option to leave and quite frankly. Based on what Sigrun said about learning to fight in Dust Town I'd say castles are survivors. They'd have a better chance on the surface where resources are more abundant. I also said in my first statement the mages have more creature comforts then the castles but the castles has the choice to leave which I value highly. If I was a mage and there was something equal to the surface for the dwarfs that I could leave and go to I'd happily take my chances.

[Lumix19]

Its not illegal for mage's to make Mage's tranquil if they attempt to leave which we see. Actually i can blame her inaction completely on Orsino because he was keeping information of their murders from her, Merridith just thought they were escaping.

The mother wasn't Casteless and we never see if the son has his tattoo or not. I can't note a Casteless be turned away from leaving but i can note that any casteless who leaves dust town is threaten by the guards.

You cant use one group of Mage's as example for the treatment of every Mage, since the Mage Origin was pretty comfortable, while the Casteless was not, her sister was whoring herself, her mother drank herself under the table, they barely had enough food, and you had to commit crime. You even see that your oldest and greatest friend Betrayed you when you returned. Before the events of Kirkwall Mage's really didn't have that bad of a life, templars didn't come in a rape them when ever they choose, unlike the Chevaliers/Nobles do to the Elves.

Mage's don't have to pay for anything, they get free rooms, as we see it aren't persecuted because of race, always have food on their table, have one of the best educations in any thedasian nation, How can you say mage's have it rough because when they escape they get punished, or when they use blood magic they get killed, Or when Their first enchanter who is supposed to help them, purposely makes Decisions which only makes the Templars have to crack down harder. Merridith was crazy and over Zealous, But Orsino was the one who was really making lives worse for the Mage's, not just the Few Templars who were sadists.

And at least the Templars can say they were following orders, but when Mage's use blood magic, its because they are selfish and weak. Mage's don't have it that bad at all comparatively.

And even if a casteless is able to leave. what can he do? just walk to denerim? he doesn't have money so he can't get travel to anywhere. the only thing they can really do is join the carta and hope they aren't killed when the carta get what they want or get tired of them. Mage's they can complete their assignment and go right back to their comfortable life in the Circles.

I hate this idea that just because you have food and education that excuses any crimes committed against you by those providing it. Fiona was given food and clothes by her master but it doesn't excuse the fact that she was a slave. Just because mages have more privileges then other groups doesn't excuse the fact that they seen as tools rather then people, brought out when it's convenient and then quickly locked away when their work is finished.
It doesn't excuse the fact that they are locked in prisons like Cole was and are threatened by Tranquility for disobeying. Also I think it is illegal to make Tranquil any mage who has passed their Harrowing since it's only meant to be used if they're too weak to resist possession, not that many follow this guideline.
Furthermore they are constantly told by the Chantry that their powers are a curse or against the Maker etc. Even in the Magi Origins I seem to recall the mage Keili praying because she believed her magic was a curse.
I think Asunder was a really good example of how mages may have some things but they certainly aren't what people make them up to be.
Also I doubt Karras was following orders when he entered Alain's chambers. Templars can be abusive and I don't think that's acceptable.

[Kieran G.]

Snip*

 

Snip*

I will again put this simply. they are not slaves. they will always have food to eat and a comfortable life style, yes they deserve freedom, but their lives aren't that hard and saying it is completely ridiculous. They are in a pretty much communistic state. yes during the dragon age is more violent in a few circles. but thats also because in kirkwall you had many blood mage's and escapes, and you had a completely incompetent first enchanter who was purposely trying to cause problems for meridith and protecting blood mage's. 

 

They are not starving, they are not whoring them self, they aren't regular people, and they get treated like they are in witness protection. most mage's are timebombs who are given a goldenchrest cage. Sorry i don't feel bad for the mage's who live there lifes Better than most of the people in thedas, the elves in orlais can be killed for just looking at the nobles the wrong way, does that happen to the Mage's? yes some of the templars in kirkwall were incredibly abusive to the mage's but again most were not, just like most of the mage's weren't blood mage's trying to escape.

 

Also probably most slaves would love to be in any circle just because life would be easier for them, and so would probably any of those elven women in the Alienage who are in a constant state of fear. at least if the templars beat a mage there are rules against. there are none if you kill, rape, beat, or even burn down a Elven or castless home. I know i'm Biased. but even Anders knew he was better off than the refugee who had nothing. 

[Lumix19]

I will again put this simply. they are not slaves. they will always have food to eat and a comfortable life style, yes they deserve freedom, but their lives aren't that hard and saying it is completely ridiculous. They are in a pretty much communistic state. yes during the dragon age is more violent in a few circles. but thats also because in kirkwall you had many blood mage's and escapes, and you had a completely incompetent first enchanter who was purposely trying to cause problems for meridith and protecting blood mage's.

They are not starving, they are not whoring them self, they aren't regular people, and they get treated like they are in witness protection. most mage's are timebombs who are given a goldenchrest cage. Sorry i don't feel bad for the mage's who live there lifes Better than most of the people in thedas, the elves in orlais can be killed for just looking at the nobles the wrong way, does that happen to the Mage's? yes some of the templars in kirkwall were incredibly abusive to the mage's but again most were not, just like most of the mage's weren't blood mage's trying to escape.

Also probably most slaves would love to be in any circle just because life would be easier for them, and so would probably any of those elven women in the Alienage who are in a constant state of fear. at least if the templars beat a mage there are rules against. there are none if you kill, rape, beat, or even burn down a Elven or castless home. I know i'm Biased. but even Anders knew he was better off than the refugee who had nothing.

First I didnt say they are slaves, I said they are treated treated like tools. But we seem to have different views on what makes a slave. If I were to say mages were like slaves I would point out that they have no ability to leave the Circle, have to do as commanded by the Chantry like fight wars, heal, go wherever they are asked and all the downsides of the Circle which have been said previously. The way I interpret what your saying, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't see them as slaves because have food and some comfort. I simply have to disagree because I don't believe that having food, education etc. makes you any less of a slave, hence by point about Fiona. If that's not what your saying then please feel free to explain exactly why you believe they aren't slaves. Sure they aren't whoring themselves but they have little of the freedoms that even the peasantry have, like having children or being able to go anywhere.
Second most mages aren't ticking timebombs, if they pass the Harrowing their supposed to be strong enough to resist demonic possession so they aren't going to spontaneously turn into abominations and rampage.
Finally your point about City Elves and Casteless is a valid one and I'm not trying to trivialize their plight, but I think a comparison between them and mages is somewhat unfair since they both have different problems. Casteless are homeless and mages have homes that's true, but mages have their children taken away whilst Casteless don't - different issues for different groups.
Also Anders is a free mage because he was a Warden so of course he was better off then most of the refugees.

[Kieran G.]

First I didnt say they are slaves, I said they are treated treated like tools. But we seem to have different views on what makes a slave. If I were to say mages were like slaves I would point out that they have no ability to leave the Circle, have to do as commanded by the Chantry like fight wars, heal, go wherever they are asked and all the downsides of the Circle which have been said previously. The way I interpret what your saying, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but you don't see them as slaves because have food and some comfort. I simply have to disagree because I don't believe that having food, education etc. makes you any less of a slave, hence by point about Fiona. If that's not what your saying then please feel free to explain exactly why you believe they aren't slaves. Sure they aren't whoring themselves but they have little of the freedoms that even the peasantry have, like having children or being able to go anywhere.

I don't see them as slaves because they are not treated as slaves. Are school Chilren slaves? they also have to listen to their teachers, where to go, when to sit, when to work, when to eat. Are they slaves? But they have their knowledge given to them, food given to them, spaces to work given to them, and by law Every child must go to school. (or be in some form, i am not looking to argue semantics.) are they slaves becasue of this?

A slave has no life, they aren't people, they have no respect, they have no representation, their children are also slaves. Unlike Mage's who can't raise their child not because they would be bad parent but because of the danger magic is and because of protection, same reason Mage's are taken to the circle. For protecting the Common people and protecting them from the common people. Imagine if uldred did what he did in Denerim or RedCliffe? Hundreds of mundanes would have died, and yes mage's died, but they did not die because of Templars, they died because of Blood magic, same with Kirkwall, Yes merridith was crazy, But it was because a Mage killed the Grand Cleric giving her the authority to attack the mage's.

 

Their lives are not that hard within the Circle. yes Kirkwall was an Extreme, but it wasn't the truth for every circle. 

 

Second most mages aren't ticking timebombs, if they pass the Harrowing their supposed to be strong enough to resist demonic possession so they aren't going to spontaneously turn into abominations and rampage.

Yes most aren't timebombs. but magic as a whole is. and we know the harrowing is just a formality because we see many Mage's who pass the Harrowing give into demons and become Abominations. we even see mage's work with demons to turn Mundanes into Abominations.

 

Finally your point about City Elves and Casteless is a valid one and I'm not trying to trivialize their plight, but I think a comparison between them and mages is somewhat unfair since they both have different problems. Casteless are homeless and mages have homes that's true, but mages have their children taken away whilst Casteless don't - different issues for different groups.
Also Anders is a free mage because he was a Warden so of course he was better off then most of the refugees.

The castless just have to watch their children starve, if they survive to an old enough age they have to commit crime to make any amount to buy any food, and if they are caught they are killed or they start to sell their body for money or to get a baby of a cast so they can move up. While mage's children are taken care of so they wont be exposed to potentially dangerous magic. 

 

But anders didn't want to be a Warden or Circle mage, and that's a perfect point why are you so distraught about the Mage's when the wardens do the exact same thing.

They force people into their order which is a death sentence. (unless you are the one in a million like fiona) if you are at risk of leaking secrets you are killed. And they see past any race, just like the circles. and they demand you go to war. they can't have children. Even recruits who aren't a member yet will be killed if they don't take the joining, so why are you not saying the life of a warden is so bad? 

[Cypher0020]

Gonna say casteless or elf mages 

[Wolfen09]

you know, i didnt think about the qunari mages.... but then again, if da2 was any indicator, they still want to follow the qun which oppresses them.... so i guess as long as they are happy it doesnt suck to be them.... but from the outside looking in, yeah i would say it sucks....

[WarriorOfLight999]

A gilded cage is still a cage.

 

Now granted, I believe that the Circle is an important, even vital institution. Mages need proper instruction to control their magic, and to protect themselves against demonic influence. Nevertheless, the Circle as it is now, is unacceptable. Mages are constantly told that their very existence is an affront to the Maker. The Templars have proven time and again to be unreliable, base, and cruel. Not to mention that they are addicted to lyrium, which addles their minds. The Chantry operates on a fear of magic, and imperialist expansion of their cult

 

'Only when the Chant of Light is sung throughout the 4 corners of the world shall he return to us'.

 

A life without freedom, no matter what other advantages one has, is an incomplete life.

[Wolfen09]

Does the Fade count?

 

How about the souls that are enslaved and imprisoned by demons? Damned to live nightmares possibly for centuries or forever until someone can step in to save them somehow.

 

If you're going that route, what about the undead?  What about the extinct dragons?  What about Schleets?  Got to keep it to living civilized beings otherwise we end up with the mabari hounds and such.... damned PETA

[Kieran G.]

A gilded cage is still a cage.

 

Now granted, I believe that the Circle is an important, even vital institution. Mages need proper instruction to control their magic, and to protect themselves against demonic influence. Nevertheless, the Circle as it is now, is unacceptable. Mages are constantly told that their very existence is an affront to the Maker. The Templars have proven time and again to be unreliable, base, and cruel. Not to mention that they are addicted to lyrium, which addles their minds. The Chantry operates on a fear of magic, and imperialist expansion of their cult

 

'Only when the Chant of Light is sung throughout the 4 corners of the world shall he return to us'.

 

A life without freedom, no matter what other advantages one has, is an incomplete life.

And what have mage's proved? the blame does not solely rest on one party. Especially when one Mage can destroy entire city blocks, or almost kill an entire circle. Both mage's and templars are extreme both doing wrong and both committing atrocities. But people completely have a right to fear magic, but its doesn't mean their treatment of the people who are cursed with it is right.

[KC_Prototype]

Elves

[WarriorOfLight999]

Oh there's plenty of blame to pass around, I assure you. But who has the power to right those wrongs? Who has the upper hand? And who has committed more crimes simply because they exist as an authority? Therefore, the atrocities on both sides cannot be equivocated so easily, atrocities though they remain.

 

Mages have proven, time and again, that they have power. The Chantry has shown little respect for that power, other than when it can be used to their advantage. Two mages, one of them an apostate, fight alongside the Warden to stop a Blight in a record time of one year. Wynne was patted on the back, her deeds soon forgotten, and then Asunder comes along. And what reward does an Amell get? When they ask for greater freedoms for his/her brethren, for saving Ferelden and possibly the world, does the Chantry gratefully recognize their merits? No. The answer is denial. How should a mage respond, when they give everything, and receive nothing?

 

Yes, a mage has the potential to be just as dangerous, as harmful. That is why the Circle is necessary. But to put it into their minds that their entire life is a sin, is simply toxic, and stupid. The Circle should not operate on righteous bluster and fear, it should depend on faith, patience, and vigilance, but not tyranny.

[KaiserShep]

I will again put this simply. they are not slaves. they will always have food to eat and a comfortable life style, yes they deserve freedom, but their lives aren't that hard and saying it is completely ridiculous.

 

A slave isn't particularly valuable if they are not getting food, and depending on the nature of the slave's purpose to the slaver, a certain level of comfort would probably be necessary for the slaver to get what they pay for. It's a tough distinction between slave and prisoner in terms of the mages. I would think that the Chantry or Templar order would probably not claim to actually own any of the mages in the Circle, considering that they didn't really buy any of them like property, but the permanence of their stay at the Circle kind of makes that distinction moot.

[Kieran G.]

A slave isn't particularly valuable if they are not getting food, and depending on the nature of the slave's purpose to the slaver, a certain level of comfort would probably be necessary for the slaver to get what they pay for.

But they don't need to be educated, they don't need to be fed how they do, they don't need to be given huge libraries to study and learn new things. Mage's are taught to expand there minds, if they were just trying to enslave mage's because they are afraid of magic, wouldn't the only thing they would let be taught is how to not be controlled by a demon.

 

And please do not Compare a Circle, with fine dressed clothes, fine beds, fine living conditions to slave labor camps. Because A slave and a Mage look nothing alike. just like a Slave and Warden. or a Slave and a School Child. All of them are forced to do something they don't have a choice into, but you would never compare them.

[Kieran G.]

Oh there's plenty of blame to pass around, I assure you. But who has the power to right those wrongs? Who has the upper hand? And who has committed more crimes simply because they exist as an authority? Therefore, the atrocities on both sides cannot be equivocated so easily, atrocities though they remain.

 

Mages have proven, time and again, that they have power. The Chantry has shown little respect for that power, other than when it can be used to their advantage. Two mages, one of them an apostate, fight alongside the Warden to stop a Blight in a record time of one year. Wynne was patted on the back, her deeds soon forgotten, and then Asunder comes along. And what reward does an Amell get? When they ask for greater freedoms for his/her brethren, for saving Ferelden and possibly the world, does the Chantry gratefully recognize their merits? No. The answer is denial. How should a mage respond, when they give everything, and receive nothing?

 

Yes, a mage has the potential to be just as dangerous, as harmful. That is why the Circle is necessary. But to put it into their minds that their entire life is a sin, is simply toxic, and stupid. The Circle should not operate on righteous bluster and fear, it should depend on faith, patience, and vigilance, but not tyranny.

You truly want to say who has committed more crimes as an authority. please remember Mage's were saved by the circles and the chantry. otherwise the Inquisition would have kept killing them. and of course the Inquisition would want to after Mage's caused the Blight, the enslavement of thedas, and the destruction of an entire empire. all while they are an authority and for much longer than the Templars have existed and they still exist killing hundreds to blood magic. Anyone with power is dangerous but a mage is always more dangerous when they are in power.

 

And i completely agree. the Templars should only be guardians. But Mage's must not be so selfish, to believe their life or freedom is more important than the safety of the innocent.