2576 réponses à ce sujet

[Lennard Testarossa]

Mages look for minimal (or none) protection against sharp objects, necessary protection against elements (no, one should not be constantly using magic to warm themselves up unless absolutely necessary) and good mobility.  In which case armor posted by nici is perfect.  I don't think mages should be stuck wearing chain - if nothing else it's heavy.  Nor do I think they should be wearing long flowing robes either as moving around in those in combat seems...problematic (heels go into the flowing robe category, horribly impractical)

 

Is that actually the case? In game, you usually can't/don't wear heavy armor as a mage due to rather arbitrary strength requirements and enchantments that help mages being present on robes only. But is there actually any lore reason in Dragon Age for mages not to be wearing heavy armor?

 

It would seem to me that the best course of action for a mage would be to place the magic enhancing enchantments on a full plate and then walk around in that. That way, you can combine magic protection and mundane protection, giving you more protection overall than either unarmored mages or armored warriors have. Better safe than sorry.

[Fidite Nemini]

 

 

Mages look for minimal (or none) protection against sharp objects, necessary protection against elements (no, one should not be constantly using magic to warm themselves up unless absolutely necessary) and good mobility.

 

 

Why so?

 

Say even if I had magic, why wouldn't I need protection against sharp objects? Also, a properly designed armor offers plenty protection against elements, certainly no less than any other piece of cloth that may or may not come with metal. And as we had established a couple times in this thread, properly designed armor offers excellent mobility and isn't encumbering at all unless I were an utternly atrophied husk with respiratory issues, in which case I wouldn't want to be doing any fighting in the first place.

 

I'd want all the protection I can get ontop of magic and then smirk at all those normal warriors crying foul play just before they die after their initial swipes were blocked by my armor during the time it took to prepare electrocuting them.

[Zana]

Is that actually the case? In game, you usually can't/don't wear heavy armor as a mage due to rather arbitrary strength requirements and enchantments that help mages being present on robes only. But is there actually any lore reason in Dragon Age for mages not to be wearing heavy armor?

 

It would seem to me that the best course of action for a mage would be to place the magic enhancing enchantments on a full plate and then walk around in that. That way, you can combine magic protection and mundane protection, giving you more protection overall than either unarmored mages or armored warriors have. Better safe than sorry.

 

I think the answer to your question is a combination of in-game balance and amount of time mage has to dedicate to non-mage pursuits.  Heck, there is no in-universe reason why a mage can't learn how to pick locks (or use magic to open them).  What we are given as choices on character select are the distilled classes - pure mage, pure rogue and pure warrior.

 

EDIT: Furthermore, Arcane Warriors were the only class that could use magic while in heavy plate and got penalized heavily for doing so.  So some in-universe law (law of game balance?) seems to affect ability to cast spells in heavy armor.

[Vanth]

Why so?

 

This is indeed the real problem. It is all meta-gaming. In order to balance the game and make it interesting, we have all sorts of unrealistic rules we impose. For example, the whole concept of levelling is meta-gaming and the progression of weapons and armor likewise. In reality, having a better balanced sword would not allow you to do twice as much damage (or more) than your standard (non-rusty and functionally sharp) blade. Similarly, we have late game armor which looks only cosmetically different from early game armor giving much better protection. The robed mage trope is similar - we invent rules post-hoc to justify why mages can't wear heavy armor, in order to allow them to be different from warriors for gaming reasons. 

 

Personally I think this is fair enough. It is a game after all, and it would get a bit dull without item progression, differentiated classes etc. Similarly, I think the game is made more dull by restricting us to 'realistic' (read 'boring') armor. 

[GrinningRogue]

There's a codex alluding to circle mages not being allowed martial training. I believe it's this one. Finn also mentioned that Ferelden Circle Mages aren't allowed to exercise outside after someone decided to swim across Lake Calenhad to escape during exercise time. It would explain why most mages can't wear plate. They aren't fit enough to do so (or aren't allowed to get fit enough to do so).

[Lilaeth]

There's a codex alluding to circle mages not being allowed martial training. I believe it's this one. Finn also mentioned that Ferelden Circle Mages aren't allowed to exercise outside after someone decided to swim across Lake Calenhad to escape during exercise time. It would explain why most mages can't wear plate. They aren't fit enough to do so (or aren't allowed to get fit enough to do so).

Goddammit!  Anders!

[Lilaeth]

There's a codex alluding to circle mages not being allowed martial training. I believe it's this one. Finn also mentioned that Ferelden Circle Mages aren't allowed to exercise outside after someone decided to swim across Lake Calenhad to escape during exercise time. It would explain why most mages can't wear plate. They aren't fit enough to do so (or aren't allowed to get fit enough to do so).

Goddammit!  Anders!

[Fidite Nemini]

This is indeed the real problem. It is all meta-gaming. In order to balance the game and make it interesting, we have all sorts of unrealistic rules we impose. For example, the whole concept of levelling is meta-gaming and the progression of weapons and armor likewise. In reality, having a better balanced sword would not allow you to do twice as much damage (or more) than your standard (non-rusty and functionally sharp) blade. Similarly, we have late game armor which looks only cosmetically different from early game armor giving much better protection. The robed mage trope is similar - we invent rules post-hoc to justify why mages can't wear heavy armor, in order to allow them to be different from warriors for gaming reasons. 

 

Personally I think this is fair enough. It is a game after all, and it would get a bit dull without item progression, differentiated classes etc. Similarly, I think the game is made more dull by restricting us to 'realistic' (read 'boring') armor. 

 

 

The problem is also the solution. Why not have class specific armors that look like armor (practical or impractical) whilst still giving the balanced stats? There is no reason that mages should only run around in robes, neither is there much reason that a plate'ish looking armor set for mages has to offer the same protective stats as a warrior equivalent.

 

 

 

There's a codex alluding to circle mages not being allowed martial training. I believe it's this one. Finn also mentioned that Ferelden Circle Mages aren't allowed to exercise outside after someone decided to swim across Lake Calenhad to escape during exercise time. It would explain why most mages can't wear plate. They aren't fit enough to do so (or aren't allowed to get fit enough to do so).

 

Wearing armor isn't something you need much special training for (apart from knowing how to put it on). And that is assuming we're talking plate and not something more simple like chainmail or simple enforced leather armor with a breast- and backplate for the upper torso. Fitness isn't an issue if those mages are bogstandard healthy people.

[Lilaeth]

I've tried on both chainmail and plate, and while my initial reaction was that it was a bit on the heavy side, you do get used to it.  In the world we're playing in, our toons would mostly be trained from late childhood to wear the stuff, so it would be no big deal to them.  And yes, an averagely healthy adult would adapt very quickly.

[GrinningRogue]

I'm not sure how fast the adaptation would be. The guys in this video seem to make it look really hard.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I can't believe I haven't used this thread as an excuse to post this again!

 

 

ARMOUR IS FOR NEWBZ

[Finnn62]

I like that "armor so heavy you can barely move" trope though.

Actually, me too, tbh. Not sure if you were being serious there. Unrealistically bulky, badass armor is pretty awesome, imo. It should be available for both males and females, I think  Anyone got any pictures of women in overly huge, bulky, seemingly immobile armor?

[AlanC9]

The problem is also the solution. Why not have class specific armors that look like armor (practical or impractical) whilst still giving the balanced stats? There is no reason that mages should only run around in robes, neither is there much reason that a plate'ish looking armor set for mages has to offer the same protective stats as a warrior equivalent.

So a full-on divorce of armor effects and armor looks, huh? I dunno -- my inital reaction is "ick," but I don't have any great intellectual rationale for that.

[Fidite Nemini]

I'm not sure how fast the adaptation would be. The guys in this video seem to make it look really hard.

 

 

That's plain old physical exhaustion. The difference between being exhausted from work and being exhausted from work wearing a chainmail isn't that significant. A full chainmail shirt would weight around 10-15kg depending on the materials used and how it's made. You can make a field experiment and just strap a training weight to yourself and go take a jog (note the armor would distribute the weight much more evenly across your body's frame than an ad-hoc weight strapped to your back). You do that a couple times and you'll find your body is acclimating pretty fast to the added weight.

 

 

 

 

So a full-on divorce of armor effects and armor looks, huh? I dunno -- my inital reaction is "ick," but I don't have any great intellectual rationale for that.

 

That point was made in the context of the metagaming/game balance argument and isn't indicative of my personal preferences, I of course prefer that beefy looking armor should come with beefy stats. The point is that beefy stats do not have to mean the same thing for two different classes and neither does a mage armor need to look like a heavy plate armor straight from a historic battlefield, so the general perception of looks vs effects is something that can be played with to significant extent without giving full plate the same protective effects as ragged jeans.

[GrinningRogue]

I can see why mages aren't allowed armor then (in game and in lore). They'd be even more dangerous than usual. It's a wonder Tevinter mages don't use armor.

[The Baconer]

I can see why mages aren't allowed armor then (in game and in lore). They'd be even more dangerous than usual. It's a wonder Tevinter mages don't use armor.

 
They do.
 

Spoiler

[GrinningRogue]

^ where is that from?

[Heimdall]

^ where is that from?

One of the comics, forget which one "Until We Sleep"?

 

That's the antagonist.

[eyezonlyii]

I've always envisioned the reason being that armor somehow disrupts spell casting or something. Basically I headcanoned that since metal is a conductive material and magic is an energy, then when cast, some portion of a spell would dissipate through the armor. 

 

Basically if your spell was a 100 lightning spell, something around 10-20% would be lost or transferred through the armor depending on the mage's experience with armor casting.

[GrinningRogue]

And now I'm suddenly afraid of mages. Lighting spitting, demon spawning humans who are capable of being evil (as standard humans do), now no longer glass cannons. If I see one of those armored nightmares in the battle field, I'd either desert or play dead.

[The Baconer]

And now I'm suddenly afraid of mages. Lighting spitting, demon spawning humans who are capable of being evil (as standard humans do), now no longer glass cannons. If I see one of those armored nightmares in the battle field, I'd either desert or play dead.

 

I'd like to push it even further. Imagine the effectiveness of mage cavalry!

[eyezonlyii]

I'd like to push it even further. Imagine the effectiveness of mage cavalry!

They would be riding dragons of course

[GrinningRogue]

They would be riding dragons of course

Right. Mind controlling blood magic. Oh dear....

[eyezonlyii]

Right. Mind controlling blood magic. Oh dear....

Maker preserve us