2576 réponses à ce sujet

[Han Shot First]

Facy-designed armor, or helmets at least, did sesrve a purpose.  It identified officers and other leaders of an army.  it told the troops who to rally around and who's orders to follow.  Giving such officers such fancy, eye-catching uniforms continued right up until World War One (until snipers figured out this was a really good way to figure out who to shoot at)

 

At any rate, it's not really the same thing as making armor that goes "Look!  Boobs!"  As that messes with the actual structure of the armor, making it less capable of defense.

 

 

 

There were plenty of features added to historical armor that served no purpose other than to make the wearer look more impressive. In some cases it might have even lowered the effectiveness of the armor (or come at the cost of say, making the armor more cumbersome). Perhaps that was thought a worthwhile tradeoff to making the wearer look more impressive or fearsome or what have you, but in any case it is a myth that armor was designed only with pragmatic concerns for the protection it provided in mind.

 

'Boob' armor quite easily falls into the same category. While I'm generally in the camp that prefers armor designs based on those from history, I have to break ranks when people gripe about plate molded to mimic a female form. I don't think it as any less pragmatic than a muscle cuirass, horned helmets, Roman cavalry masks, Roman signifers and aquilifers wearing animal pelts, the Teutonic great helm, engravings on helmets or armor, or the Gallic raven helm.

[daveliam]

Nope

 

 

 

Yep

[Hanako Ikezawa]

I just want more armor reminiscent of this.  I'm not looking for super sexy gotta show it all armor.  I'm also not looking for traditional designed for masculine aesthetic armors either.  I want something that gives of more feminine qualities, like this armor does.  You can easily by making use of cloths, and more feminine/girly designs, make armor that is reminiscent of a dress or other feminine garments, without destroying it's protective qualities.

 

 

Instead, we get either chainmail bikinis or damn near the exact same masculine inspired armor the men have.  I'm so sick of the damn extremes, and I'm so sick of more feminine inspired armor themes being lumped in with chainmail bikinis.

 

I have no problem with "practical" design constraints if we remove the damn masculine design bias and start bringing some more feminine qualities into the designs.  Armor was traditionally designed by men, for men, in a world were men did 95% of the fighting. 

 

In a world where men and women are equally warriors and yet feminine clothes and designs still exist such as dresses, ect, I have trouble believing all armor designs would still follow the same boring masculine template our cultures followed.  Let's see some armors that are made and designed for women with more traditionally feminine tastes.  There's no reason we should be bound to the masculine ideal with our armors.

A shame it has been confirmed we can't have stuff like this. 

[Seraphim24]

Yep

Nope

 

A shame it has been confirmed we can't have stuff like this. 

 

That would require the west to become Japan, which isn't happening anytime soon. I think a colorful bowtie in the hair isn't loot or fat purplz or murdering monsters and doing complicated political intrigue or all the importantly manly stuff that important manly men care about so consequently it gets zero design priority.

 

If armor is to be made, it is to be firm, tight around the waist, firm and good for a respectable lady. Again, the supposed bastion of progress Bioware is really just as sexist as many other game companies oftentimes. No fun to be had here, and a lot of fans help ensure that.

[Cyonan]

 

That would require the west to become Japan, which isn't happening anytime soon. I think a colorful bowtie in the hair isn't loot or fat purplz or murdering monsters and doing complicated political intrigue or all the importantly manly stuff that important manly men care about so consequently it gets zero design priority.

 

If armor is to be made, it is to be firm, tight around the waist, firm and good for a respectable lady. Again, the supposed bastion of progress Bioware is really just as sexist as many other game companies oftentimes.

 

Doing all that manly man stuff is important you know.

 

How else will people know that I'm the manliest man to ever do manly man things?

[Seraphim24]

From the other 9000000000 games and shows which have identical design priorities.

 

Supposedly these manly men (and women) have a soft side, which apparently they demonstrate by being as puritan as humanly possible.

[daveliam]

Nope

 

 

You seriously don't think that 'what looks good' is subjective?  I don't even have words for this kind of logic....

[pengwin21]

To be fair, there are various design decisions to be made with armor choices. Perhaps I want my characters to dress in a bathrobe or a t-shirt and jeans, but these do not fit the Dragon Age setting/are not practical for combat.

 

I don't mind the occasional 'skimpy' piece, but I don't think it should be a design focus. 

[AresKeith]

You seriously don't think that 'what looks good' is subjective? I don't even have words for this kind of logic....

Almost certain that person is just a troll now

[AresKeith]

Nope

Yep

[Cyonan]

From the other 9000000000 games and shows which have identical design priorities.

 

Supposedly these manly men (and women) have a soft side, which apparently they demonstrate by being as puritan as humanly possible.

 

The manly code states that I must always prove how much of a manly man that I am. If there are 9000000000 other things that show that then I must make it 9000000001.

 

but please, tell me more about how not wanting my female characters running around in chain mail bikinis all the time makes me a puritan.

[Xilizhra]

From the other 9000000000 games and shows which have identical design priorities.

 

Supposedly these manly men (and women) have a soft side, which apparently they demonstrate by being as puritan as humanly possible.

Just because an outfit isn't revealing doesn't mean it can't look great. I'd love something like this for mages.

[Degs29]

The issue with armour design is that its not just the PC that wears armour. A lot of NPCs do too. And even if I give my PC functional armour, if the rest of the women in the world are wearing chainmail bikinis and the men have such ridiculous shoulderpads they can't even turn their heads, then I find it hugely immersion breaking.

 

I can understand that, even if it's not a big deal to me.  Broken physics are immersion-breaking.  Cheesy lines are immersion-breaking.  But personally, I don't find outfits all that immersion-breaking unless it's way over the top.  And no Dragon Age game has even come close to that, and I don't expect this one will be any different.

[Shadow Fox]

 

 

 

There were plenty of features added to historical armor that served no purpose other than to make the wearer look more impressive. In some cases it might have even lowered the effectiveness of the armor (or come at the cost of say, making the armor more cumbersome). Perhaps that was thought a worthwhile tradeoff to making the wearer look more impressive or fearsome or what have you, but in any case it is a myth that armor was designed only with pragmatic concerns for the protection it provided in mind.

 

'Boob' armor quite easily falls into the same category. While I'm generally in the camp that prefers armor designs based on those from history, I have to break ranks when people gripe about plate molded to mimic a female form. I don't think it as any less pragmatic than a muscle cuirass, horned helmets, Roman cavalry masks, Roman signifers and aquilifers wearing animal pelts, the Teutonic great helm, engravings on helmets or armor, or the Gallic raven helm.

I don't think those can kill you just by falling face first though...

[PinkysPain]

In my opinion history gets brought up too much in armour discussions ... history did not have egalitarian societies. Yes, armour has padding and yes having cleavage in armour is not a good idea. Female armour having the exact same contours as male armour makes no sense in custom plate armour when you have egalitarian armies and no need to hide your sex on the battlefield though.

 

The extra weight and bulk to just drop down without much contour from the chest is simply not a good idea and some women are too big to wrap them flat. In most fantasy games (ie. without -4 strength or strong gender roles) plate armour should start to follow the same design principles as modern body armour ...  anything else is simply unrealistic even it matches our Earthly history.

[Xilizhra]

In my opinion history gets brought up too much in armour discussions ... history did not have egalitarian societies. Yes, armour has padding and yes having cleavage in armour is not a good idea. Female armour having the exact same contours as male armour makes no sense in custom plate armour when you have egalitarian armies and no need to hide your sex on the battlefield though.

 

The extra weight and bulk to just drop down without much contour from the chest is simply not a good idea and some women are too big to wrap them flat. In most fantasy games (ie. without -4 strength or strong gender roles) plate armour should start to follow the same design principles as modern body armour ...  anything else is simply unrealistic even it matches our Earthly history.

It does, however, make sense to not create boobplate when you don't want to deflect blows directly into your sternum. Also, strong, athletic women rarely overlap with large-breasted women.

[Seraphim24]

The manly code states that I must always prove how much of a manly man that I am. If there are 9000000000 other things that show that then I must make it 9000000001.

 

but please, tell me more about how not wanting my female characters running around in chain mail bikinis all the time makes me a puritan.

 

It doesn't really have to be a bikini necessarily, I have seen plenty that it's just the midriff and a short skirt or something seems perfectly fine to me, especially in 2014. That's more modest than anything you see at the beach. It's not really very different from something that was already in Dragon Age also. Plus that saber outfit is more attractive than many less covering costumes by sheer virtue of aesthetic sensibility.

 

[Seraphim24]

You seriously don't think that 'what looks good' is subjective?  I don't even have words for this kind of logic....

 

You seriously think what looks good is subjective? I don't even have words for this kind of logic.

 

From my perspective, assertions to the contrary are trolling behavior to me, but I guess that is a failure to be open minded on your part.

[Xilizhra]

It doesn't really have to be a bikini necessarily, I have seen plenty that it's just the midriff and a short skirt or something seems perfectly fine to me, especially in 2014. That's more modest than anything you see at the beach. It's not really very different from something that was already in Dragon Age also. Plus that saber outfit is more attractive than many less covering costumes by sheer virtue of aesthetic sensibility.

 

I don't have a problem with sexy armor, provided that the armor's main purpose isn't protection by means of stopping power. If it's a mage robe, go nuts. If it's a rogue outfit... eh, I'd rather not have it be too ridiculous, but you have more leeway there than with metal armor.

[PinkysPain]

It does, however, make sense to not create boobplate when you don't want to deflect blows directly into your sternum. Also, strong, athletic women rarely overlap with large-breasted women.

 

In reality women are weaker both on average and in their maximum potential in feats of physical strength ... if we are just going to ignore that in our fantasy games (which I have no problem with) then making an exception for big breasted women seems petty.

[Cyonan]

It doesn't really have to be a bikini necessarily, I have seen plenty that it's just the midriff and a short skirt or something seems perfectly fine to me, especially in 2014. That's more modest than anything you see at the beach. It's not really very different from something that was already in Dragon Age also. Plus that saber outfit is more attractive than many less covering costumes by sheer virtue of aesthetic sensibility.

 

I was more pointing out the "all the time" part than anything else.

 

You seem to call anybody a Victorian puritan who wants the choice to not wear something revealing, even if they don't want to take the choice away from you to wear something "sexy".

[aphelion4]

BioWare hasn't had a good track record in DA with "sexy" armors. That disgusting Dalish armor that looked like they painted skin texture over the actual armor mesh for one. XD So long as I don't have to wear bulky armors on my female characters I'll be okay with anything as long as its also flattering to the figure. I don't have a problem with boob windows/plates either.

 

I do however think chainmail bikinis are super uninspired and boring. Skimpy is perfectly okay assuming it's actually had thought put into it. I wouldn't put anything on my character I wouldn't wear personally. Let's just hope there's something for everyone.

[9TailsFox]

I just want more armor reminiscent of this.  I'm not looking for super sexy gotta show it all armor.  I'm also not looking for traditional designed for masculine aesthetic armors either.  I want something that gives of more feminine qualities, like this armor does.  You can easily by making use of cloths, and more feminine/girly designs, make armor that is reminiscent of a dress or other feminine garments, without destroying it's protective qualities.

 

 

Instead, we get either chainmail bikinis or damn near the exact same masculine inspired armor the men have.  I'm so sick of the damn extremes, and I'm so sick of more feminine inspired armor themes being lumped in with chainmail bikinis.

 

I have no problem with "practical" design constraints if we remove the damn masculine design bias and start bringing some more feminine qualities into the designs.  Armor was traditionally designed by men, for men, in a world were men did 95% of the fighting. 

 

In a world where men and women are equally warriors and yet feminine clothes and designs still exist such as dresses, ect, I have trouble believing all armor designs would still follow the same boring masculine template our cultures followed.  Let's see some armors that are made and designed for women with more traditionally feminine tastes.  There's no reason we should be bound to the masculine ideal with our armors.

Gilgamesh armour better.

[Seraphim24]

I was more pointing out the "all the time" part than anything else.

 

You seem to call anybody a Victorian puritan who wants the choice to not wear something revealing, even if they don't want to take the choice away from you to wear something "sexy".

 

The first page gave the laundry list of tepid response which was, well, lets give a choice to everyone, but the reality is that resources and such are constrained. Lets say you can make 3, you make 1 hot, one plain, what's the third one? I'd go with hot, in that scenario.

 

Plus, well, it kind of is puritan at least to a degree. The puritans emphasized extreme modesty and simplicity in dress and manner if I'm correctly remembering 4th grade. The insistence upon tame and less provocative outfits seems pretty identical to that kind of thinking.

 

Nerds and gamers are frequently very conservative, religious even, though they tend to pretend otherwise.

[Han Shot First]

I don't think those can kill you just by falling face first though...

 

Neither would falling while wearing plate crafted to mimic the female's form.