2576 réponses à ce sujet

[pengwin21]

Ok, you must be trolling at this point. How did Godwin's Law even happen here?

[Medhia_Nox]

@pengwin21:  When in doubt, bring nazis out.

[Cyonan]

I guess so. That girl is worried what people might think, they might judge her as being a ****** or whatever it is (as they do everywhere), she won't just let go. That seems like submissive behavior to me, when you freak about what people will say and judge you for it, allowing them to influence your behavior. Unless you live in some universe where that kind of sexual expression is judged positively.

 

This "alien logic" can be applied to similar things, like when people get tattoos to show how independent they are I'm like um that shows how dependent you are, you are constantly thinking about your own appearance and how people view you, your need to fit in or identify with certain cultural aspects or something.

 

So you're annoyed that people do things that society says they should in fear of being judged, and then proceed to judge people who don't do the things that you say they should.

 

Not sure if trolling or hypocrite...

[Seraphim24]

I just want to see some outfits that are cute and hot, I don't know why that's so complicated for you people.

[daveliam]

So you're annoyed that people do things that society says they should in fear of being judged, and then proceed to judge people who don't do the things that you say they should.

 

Not sure if trolling or hypocrite...

 

Exactly.  My question is this:  What if a woman wears revealing clothes to fit in with society expectations and is overly concerned about how people view her?  Is that bad?  Because, on one hand, she's obsessed with her looks and how people view her, so Kefka should find her to be "weak" and "wrong".  But on the other hand, she's exposing skin, which he somehow thinks makes her an independent thinker.  What a conundrum......

 

I just want to see some outfits that are cute and hot, I don't know why that's so complicated for you people.

 

Aaaaand, there's the truth.  So it's not about societal views on women and how they respond to them.  It's about bewbz.  Got it.

[AresKeith]

I just want to see some outfits that are cute and hot, I don't know why that's so complicated for you people.

 

Because they way you act

[Shadow Fox]

"That girl" is worried about what a sword might do to her exposed flesh.

 

Only a completely stupid woman would expose her skin thinking "sexy feminism" would save her from violence.

Actually if you're talking about the girl in yellow she wears that because she emits radiation.

 

She has to wear it because otherwise she'd kill everyone around her.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Red Zaku: No, I was talking about "that girl" who wants to just wear sexy outfits out onto the battlefield. 

 

I had no specific character in mind.

[Shadow Fox]

@Red Zaku: No, I was talking about "that girl" who wants to just wear sexy outfits out onto the battlefield. 

 

I had no specific character in mind.

Oh I thought that's who Kefka was talking about.

 

your post was just easier to qoute.

[Seraphim24]

Exactly.  My question is this:  What if a woman wears revealing clothes to fit in with society expectations and is overly concerned about how people view her?  Is that bad?  Because, on one hand, she's obsessed with her looks and how people view her, so Kefka should find her to be "weak" and "wrong".  But on the other hand, she's exposing skin, which he somehow thinks makes her an independent thinker.  What a conundrum......

 

Aaaaand, there's the truth.  So it's not about societal views on women and how they respond to them.  It's about bewbz.  Got it.

 

Well, I suppose yeah, that would also be submissive behavior then, even if that person was wearing revealing clothing. My experience with most reckless outgoing sexual types is they generally don't give a crap about anything going on around them.

 

Also I just resorted to cute outfits because I was left with no choice after the "it's illegal to judge anything" card was played. That's usually when the story is over, "oh, but your playing the same game too," is a card anyone can play at any time with any of these things. The only alternative is to express it in purely independent preferences which is exactly what triggered the "oh, but then there's no intellectual backing up of this proposition."

 

That... is what I call a dilemma.

[daveliam]

Well, I suppose yeah, that would also be submissive behavior then, even if that person was wearing revealing clothing. My experience with most reckless outgoing sexual types is they generally don't give a crap about anything going on around them.

 

Also I just resorted to cute outfits because I was left with no choice after the "it's illegal to judge anything" card was played. That's usually when the story is over, "oh, but your playing the same game too," is a card anyone can play at any time with any of these things. The only alternative is to express it in purely independent preferences which is exactly what triggered the "oh, but then there's no intellectual backing up of this proposition."

 

That... is what I call a dilemma. So now that any attempt to justify my conclusions intellectually will be met with the hypocrisy sticker and any attempt to justify on a purely independent emotional desire will be assaulted as brainless, I have exhausted all potential options then. This box is too tight, I'm afraid.

 

Look, frankly, I think you are overthinking this. 

 

If you want to look at cute girls in chainmail bikinis, then just say so.  The issue wasn't with that being your preference.  It was the pseudo-intellectual babble (and dismissive insults) that accompanied it.  When you try to couch your opinion as some critical, academic discussion on feminism and societal views on women, then, yeah, people are going to ask you back that up with intellectual statements.  But if you just said, "I want to see cute girls in chainmail bikinis", then people might have dismissed your views, but there wouldn't have been this long, drawn out discussion that wasn't even related to why you were supporting the "sexy" armor. 

 

At least that's how it looks here. 

[Cyonan]

Well, I suppose yeah, that would also be submissive behavior then, even if that person was wearing revealing clothing. My experience with most reckless outgoing sexual types is they generally don't give a crap about anything going on around them.

 

Also I just resorted to cute outfits because I was left with no choice after the "it's illegal to judge anything" card was played. That's usually when the story is over, "oh, but your playing the same game too," is a card anyone can play at any time with any of these things. The only alternative is to express it in purely independent preferences which is exactly what triggered the "oh, but then there's no intellectual backing up of this proposition."

 

That... is what I call a dilemma.

 

What if the person wants everybody to have a choice as to what they want?

 

What if the person actually just wants to wear non revealing clothing regardless of what anybody else says?

 

I didn't call you a hypocrite because you were judging people. I did it because you were telling us how bad it was to do stuff that society demands of us out of fear of being judged all while judging us for not doing the stuff you tell us we should be doing.

 

Had you not done that first bit, I wouldn't have called you a hypocrite for judging people.

[Medhia_Nox]

Not to mention that going against the status quo is pretty much the most cliche thing there is to do.

[daveliam]

Not to mention that going against the status quo is pretty much the most cliche thing there is to do.

 

Exactly.  This is what I think of when I hear about "going against the status quo"......

 

[Seraphim24]

I didn't call you a hypocrite because you were judging people. I did it because you were telling us how bad it was to do stuff that society demands of us out of fear of being judged all while judging us for not doing the stuff you tell us we should be doing.

 

Had you not done that first bit, I wouldn't have called you a hypocrite for judging people.

 

Well, that's kind of how it always works, everyone's kinda sorta judging all the time if you are going to say anything at all about what should be applied to a large number of people.

 

I just think life is entirely too short and the world entirely too vast and amazing to care so much about whether an outfit is too sexy or not. Even more to the point, that's reason to get that sexy hot outfit in the game, have some fun, no big deal. It doesn't bother me or detract from the "realism" in other games I've played where it exists, so I see no reason not to have it ultimately. Those same games often had more plain outfits too, and that's all well and good. It's just a general sense of the aesthetics being conservative that I don't enjoy, and realism or armor protection just isn't a compelling enough reason when there are already so many things that are unrealistic.

[KC_Prototype]

Sexy...In DA2's Warrior dlc the armor was amazing but looked horrendous! 

[Cyonan]

Well, that's kind of how it always works, everyone's kinda sorta judging all the time if you are going to say anything at all about what should be applied to a large number of people.

 

I just think life is entirely too short and the world entirely too vast and amazing to care so much about whether an outfit is too sexy or not. Even more to the point, that's reason to get that sexy hot outfit in the game, have some fun, no big deal. It doesn't bother me or detract from the "realism" in other games I've played where it exists, so I see no reason not to have it ultimately. Those same games often had more plain outfits too, and that's all well and good. It's just a general sense of the aesthetics being conservative that I don't enjoy, and realism or armor protection just isn't a compelling enough reason when there are already so many things that are unrealistic.

 

I'm fine with sexy armour being in the game as long as I have the choice, or the game's overall tone fits it.

 

What I didn't care much for was the attitude that by wanting non sexy armour in the game at all even if it's a choice that I'm somehow an 18th century Victorian puritan who is anti-fun =P

 

In most cases for stuff like this, I'm all for giving the choice to the player.

[Seraphim24]

That's all relative to though really, one person's sort of edgy thing is another person's puritanical dream. Sometimes I think about Zelda and how crazy everyone was about it once upon a time. At the same time, nowadays it seems kinda tame. Honestly, you could argue that all of Nintendo's failings are simply due to not having really updated their artistry to reflect a more sex-driven world and society. That's just 30 years ago also, not 300.

 

IIt's not like Zelda ever feels like puritanical England to me, but it's the same impulse philosophically and DA was always skirting the edges of being too tame overall.

 

I can acknowledge that many Bioware games for instance are plenty more pro-fun then well.. I don't know... Matlock, but that doesn't automatically put them in the pantheon for me.

[Mirrman70]

I feel that talking about societal views and cultural dilemmas is out of place when discussing video games. Video games are intended to be fun not be chess pieces in some debate over feminism and masculism and how they interact with each other. I want to have fun, you want to have fun, we all just want to have fun (presumably). If you want a game that is all about "sexy" feminism with female combatants wearing impractical armor than by all means go find one or (god forbid) create one yourself. Outside of some leather armor sets in DA:O and Isabela, DA has never been chainmail bikini game (not saying all the other armor is completely practical).

[Lady Nuggins]

And thank god, no breasts or skin showing, nice and submissive and tame, just the way the manly men of the Inquisition like their girls. Might as well just put a chain on her neck while we're at it.

 

"Women should show off their bodies to please me, they are timid and weak if they do not!  Only a brave, bold woman would have the strength to show me her boobs." 

[Seraphim24]

"Women should show off their bodies to please me, they are timid and weak if they do not!  Only a brave, bold woman would have the strength to show me her boobs." 

 

Yeah.

 

If you want to look at cute girls in chainmail bikinis, then just say so.  The issue wasn't with that being your preference.  It was the pseudo-intellectual babble (and dismissive insults) that accompanied it.  When you try to couch your opinion as some critical, academic discussion on feminism and societal views on women, then, yeah, people are going to ask you back that up with intellectual statements.  But if you just said, "I want to see cute girls in chainmail bikinis", then people might have dismissed your views, but there wouldn't have been this long, drawn out discussion that wasn't even related to why you were supporting the "sexy" armor.

 

Intellectually feminism and puritan england strike me as being cut from the same cloth. At least whatever one I'm acquainted with, it's based on the notion of telling women what to do and how to do it, no different from an 18th century Anglican morality. It's enshacklement under the guise of emancipation, no different from any other standard liberal politicking. I fail to see how this is psuedo-intellectual.

 

Ok, fine, it differs in the degree of repression, they're not saying have sex with a sheet, but they're saying have sex be less visible and keep it to yourself. They're saying oh this is too hot how can I get rid of it?! It's almost like communism applied to sex or something, lets repress attractiveness until it disappears (and advantages the rest of us). How would they do that? Well by mandating acceptable standards of dress/norms that conveniently make attractive women (or men, whatever) to be less visible. By the way everything I'm saying can basically be applied to men also so no one get all angsty at me for that.

 

If you want to dissect the exact vision of morality or whatever that DA promotes that seems acceptable, but then I would just simply point to the fixation on the topic and say that indicates something weird going on, something not necessarily good. If people weren't intimidated by such displays of sexuality I'd gander that any sexy outfits wouldn't bother them one way or the other, and in fact many would go oh yeah! I get to look good! There probably is an argument somewhere against having the game look like a porn, but I don't see that kind of genuinely reflective criticism anywhere, mostly just a panicked overreaction.

 

Of course there is literally an infinite number of versions of feminism at this point I'm sure, and such a brazenly incoherent movement that's not worth comparing to anything in the first place. They frequently appear to be for and against essentially everything.

[Lady Nuggins]

Yeah.

 

 

Intellectually feminism and puritan england strike me as being cut from the same cloth. At least whatever one I'm acquainted with, it's based on the notion of telling women what to do and how to do it, no different from an 18th century Anglican morality. It's enshacklement under the guise of emancipation, no different from any other standard liberal politicking. I fail to see how this is psuedo-intellectual.

 

Ok, fine, it differs in the degree of repression, they're not saying have sex with a sheet, but they're saying have sex be less visible and keep it to yourself. They're saying oh this is too hot how can I, the (typically, not always) ugly female keep up with that?! It's almost like communism applied to sex or something, lets repress attractive people until they're at the level of the rest of the ugly people. If you want to dissect the exact vision of morality or whatever that DA promotes that seems acceptable, but then I would just simply point to the fixation on the topic and say that indicates something weird going on, something not necessarily good. If people weren't intimidated by sexuality I'd gander that any sexy outfits wouldn't bother them one way or the other, and in fact many would go oh yeah! I get to look good!

 

Of course there is literally an infinite number of versions of feminism at this point I'm sure, and such a brazenly incoherent movement that's not worth comparing to anything in the first place. They frequently appear to be for and against essentially everything.

 

Thank you, Kefka112, for rescuing us ignorant women from our oppression.  I now know that true freedom is letting men see as much of me as they want.  I thought that I was making my own choices about my own body, but all along I was simply being prevented from obeying your desire to get as much access to it as you want.

[CENIC]

I think having varied options is key here.

Personally, I prefer modest armor that still looks "cool" (I thought the Champion armor in DA2 was great)

If "sexy" armor exists, I don't have to use it, so it has no impact on me whatsoever.
Isabela's outfit didn't phase me either - that was her style. My companions can dress as they please. If the companion armor system from way back when is still in Inquisition (where each armor set has a unique appearance on each companion that is tailored to their personal style) I'll be content with it.

[SamanthaJ]

I don't even know what Kefka is trying to argue or half the stuff he types up because it doesn't make a lick of sense. Feminism is like puritan England what. Most people have said that all they want is a choice. Most people that said they didn't like impractical sexy armor just said they wanted the choice not to wear it. 

[Revan Reborn]

I'm surprised this thread is still in full swing. It might be one thing if "sexy" armor, as it's called, had a history of being in Dragon Age. With the exception of Morrigan and Isabela, whose outfits matched their personalities (they also weren't warriors), no one else has warn armor or clothing excessively revealing.

 

With that understood, I would like BioWare to personally continue the tradition of what they have established for Dragon Age. This isn't a matter of "choice" and "freedom." This is a matter of doing what is appropriate and makes sense for the franchise. Having obligatory bikini chain mail with Dead or Alive "boob physics" does not in anyway align with the philosophies of DA nor does it fit.

 

There are plenty of JRPGs for those of you who want "sexy armor" can play and live out your fantasies. If DAI ever has the luxury of obtaining mods on PC, I'm sure plenty of individuals will give the armor the "anime/hentai" treatment eventually, as that was always a popular topic for the modding community with Skyrim.

 

As I said before though, why not just unequip all of your companion's and Inquisitor's armor and play that way? You essentially are getting what you want. Just play on the casual setting and you'll be set.