2576 réponses à ce sujet

[Caelorummors]

Making assumptions about people like that for no reason but to be more provocative is trolling, yes.

Also, "all opinions are offensive" is an over simplification, you know very well that just stating an opinion isn't as offensive as doing it the way you've been doing it.

 

And something being offensive isn't inherently bad either. "I find that offensive" doesn't mean anything except the person is offended. It means nothing about the words/work of art/opinion/bear in a monkey suit/whatever in question. One can be offended all they want, it is their privilege to do so, but they are not entitled to have anyone else to care that they're offended.

[Seraphim24]

Honestly that's just standard academia though, to be perfectly clear. At any rate, it's not as remotely interesting to me as the actual conversation so I'd like to get to that.

 

Edit: Oh you did I guess..

[aTigerslunch]

I find chainmail bikini's sexy, honestly they are. However, that makes me think of those ladies as a sex object and nothing more, to cater to my sexual appetite. It might be wrong to say that, but that is being honest. If they are wearing very little, I can't take them seriously, and seems there would be quite a few others that may follow this.

 

 

 

EDIT: As long as the gender opposite of them are in the same boat as their counterpart, I don't have an issue.

[PinkysPain]

Just as a couple of examples of decorated armour, here's some real stuff:

 

 

Highly ornamental - more so than you see in most games - but they still follow the basic design prinicples of making functional armour.

 

Male uniboob armour ...

[Lady Luminous]

I have to say, I really love the Shadow of the Empire armour set from DA:O. I love the pale lilac colour and the silver designs, and it's not too sexy although I think it shows the midriff? Also the DA:A Grey Warden Light Armour is beautiful with that pale blue colour. Apparently I really gravitate towards that style, hehe. 

 

I hope we can get something like that again. 

[FumikoM]

This Rogue armor in the new crafting and customization video tho:

 

 

I actually think this is "sexy". Now I will have to play as a Rogue.

[Lady Luminous]

This Rogue armor in the new crafting and customization video tho:

 

*snip*

 

I actually think this is "sexy". Now I will have to play as a Rogue.

 

Oh that is gorgeous, almost a corset kind of look. I love it!

[Seraphim24]

I find chainmail bikini's sexy, honestly they are. However, that makes me think of those ladies as a sex object and nothing more, to cater to my sexual appetite. It might be wrong to say that, but that is being honest. If they are wearing very little, I can't take them seriously, and seems there would be quite a few others that may follow this.

 

You shouldn't automatically equate sexual expression with stupidity or lack of depth, IMO. It can coincide with being a completely serious person. Being guided by such lame stereotypes allows you to miss those instances where people just want to express themselves sexually, which can simply be a good thing. Doing it to cater to someone else's sexual appetite can also be a good thing, in fact, it's often simply a means to obtain their sexual interest, it's not this inherent prostration of their own values and desires to someone else, but simply a means for facilitating the achievement of their own goals and interests. Sex is good, sex is magical, fun, and serious people should be free to engage in that kind of game without fear of reprisal or judgment. I'm also sure many very much want to be more involved but for the incredible criticism they would face.

 

I feel like plenty of intellectual, 'important' people are too hostile towards really basic sexual expression and desire. Or really even the idea of doing something for another person (which is often to get what they want anyway). But whatever, if that's the way other people want to do things fine

[someguy1231]

I still don't understand the "realism" argument some people are making. Even if you put aside the fact that this is a fantasy game, I think it's safe to say that there's barely any armor in any sci-fi/fantasy game that would be as protective and practical in real-life as the game suggests. For example, Dark Souls has a set of armor made from solid rock, even though an actual person wearing such armor would barely be able to move in it, let alone fight. Or take the typical Space Marine armor in Warhammer 40k. Many people who've cosplayed such armor say it's incredibly bulky, restrictive, overheating, etc. And as I said earlier, if Bioware really wanted to be "realistic", then they'd give all heavy armor a severe penalty to things like movement speed, attack speed, battle vision (if they're wearing a helmet with narrow vision), flexibility, and exhaustion in battle, as well as requiring the player to remove them on occasion to prevent overheating. Of course, tons of players would find this annoying and complain if they did that. If you can accept that break from reality, why can't you accept "sexy armor" as one?

 

My point is, if you're going to hold all in-game armor to the same real-life standards that you're subjecting "sexy armor" to, then the full-body-covering armors that you're putting on a pedestal would have just as many shortcomings. Developers use some artistic license with armor all the time. Whether they do so to make the armor look "cool", "sexy", "scary", or whatever else their goal is is irrelevant to me.

[PhroXenGold]

I still don't understand the "realism" argument some people are making. Even if you put aside the fact that this is a fantasy game, I think it's safe to say that there's barely any armor in any sci-fi/fantasy game that would be as protective and practical in real-life as the game suggests. For example, Dark Souls has a set of armor made from solid rock, even though an actual person wearing such armor would barely be able to move in it, let alone fight. Or take the typical Space Marine armor in Warhammer 40k. Many people who've cosplayed such armor say it's incredibly bulky, restrictive, overheating, etc. And as I said earlier, if Bioware really wanted to be "realistic", then they'd give all heavy armor a severe penalty to things like movement speed, attack speed, battle vision (if they're wearing a helmet with narrow vision), flexibility, and exhaustion in battle, as well as requiring the player to remove them on occasion to prevent overheating. Of course, tons of players would find this annoying and complain if they did that. If you can accept that break from reality, why can't you accept "sexy armor" as one?

 

My point is, if you're going to hold all in-game armor to the same real-life standards that you're subjecting "sexy armor" to, then the full-body-covering armors that you're putting on a pedestal would have just as many shortcomings. Developers use some artistic license with armor all the time. Whether they do so to make the armor look "cool", "sexy", "scary", or whatever else their goal is is irrelevant to me.

 

No serious armour would be "bulky, restrictive, overheating etc.". It would defeat the entire point of being something you're meant to fight in. A properly made and just as importantly, properly fitted suit of (battle*) armour was pretty easy to wear and didn't impede the wearer much at all - even with full plate armour. The weight is evenly distributed around the body, the armour is tightly secured so it doesn't obstruct movement. And of course, anyone fighting in such armour will likely have spent a lot of time practising in it, so they'll be used to it. Fighting for long periods of time in armour would be exhausting, but so would fighting for long periods of time without armour. Overheating would only be a problem if you stayed in armour for long periods of time in hot climates (e.g. deserts). Some helmets could indeed obscure vision somewhat, but other than that, you're pretty much completely wrong on how fighting in armour actually was. Wearing armour is only a problem when it's badly designed and/or not properly fitted to the wearer (which, admittedly, is the case for most armour that appears in games, so yeah, your cosplayers will have issues).

 

*as opposed to armour for sports such as jousting, which was highly specialised and thus could be restrictive, because all the wearer would do is sit on a horse and hold a lance in a relatively static position, so the extra protection that could be gained was well worth it

[someguy1231]

No serious armour would be "bulky, restrictive, overheating etc.". It would defeat the entire point of being something you're meant to fight in. A properly made and just as importantly, properly fitted suit of (battle*) armour was pretty easy to wear and didn't impede the wearer much at all - even with full plate armour. The weight is evenly distributed around the body, the armour is tightly secured so it doesn't obstruct movement. And of course, anyone fighting in such armour will likely have spent a lot of time practising in it, so they'll be used to it. Fighting for long periods of time in armour would be exhausting, but so would fighting for long periods of time without armour. Overheating would only be a problem if you stayed in armour for long periods of time in hot climates (e.g. deserts). Some helmets could indeed obscure vision somewhat, but other than that, you're pretty much completely wrong on how fighting in armour actually was. Wearing armour is only a problem when it's badly designed and/or not properly fitted to the wearer (which, admittedly, is the case for most armour that appears in games, so yeah, your cosplayers will have issues).

 

*as opposed to armour for sports such as jousting, which was highly specialised and thus could be restrictive, because all the wearer would do is sit on a horse and hold a lance in a relatively static position, so the extra protection that could be gained was well worth it

 

Sounds to me like you're using the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. In fact, many of the points you're making only support what I'm saying.

 

"Properly fitted suit of battle armor" - in most RPGs, armor that the player wears isn't armor that was "properly fitted" for them, it's armor that they got as a drop from a boss, from an old chest, or

 

"Anyone fighting in armor would have spent alot of time practicing in it" - For my warrior in DAO, I went through about 10 different sets of heavy armor from the beginning of the game to the end. Do you think I had much time to "practice" in that? And this is typical for armor in most RPGs; the player commonly changes their armor at least a dozen times as they're leveling up.

 

"Fighting for long periods of time in armour would be exhausting, but so would fighting for long periods of time without armour." - And wearing armor would make the wearer exhausted far more quickly. In real life, many people fighting an opponent in heavy armor have taken advantage of that fact.

 

And you yourself admit that most armor in games is "badly designed". Which is exactly my point. I was just pointing out that armor which is badly designed because it's "sexy" rather than because it's "cool" or "scary" or "elaborate" is much more likely to be complained about as  "bad design".

[PhroXenGold]

Sounds to me like you're using the "No True Scotsman" fallacy. In fact, many of the points you're making only support what I'm saying.

 

"Properly fitted suit of battle armor" - in most RPGs, armor that the player wears isn't armor that was "properly fitted" for them, it's armor that they got as a drop from a boss, from an old chest, or

 

"Anyone fighting in armor would have spent alot of time practicing in it" - For my warrior in DAO, I went through about 10 different sets of heavy armor from the beginning of the game to the end. Do you think I had much time to "practice" in that? And this is typical for armor in most RPGs; the player commonly changes their armor at least a dozen times as they're leveling up.

 

"Fighting for long periods of time in armour would be exhausting, but so would fighting for long periods of time without armour." - And wearing armor would make the wearer exhausted far more quickly. In real life, many people fighting an opponent in heavy armor have taken advantage of that fact.

 

And you yourself admit that most armor in games is "badly designed". Which is exactly my point. I was just pointing out that armor which is badly designed because it's "sexy" rather than because it's "cool" or "scary" or "elaborate" is much more likely to be complained about as  "bad design".

 

Well, the first point has some validity, although given that the same armour fits everyone from a midget to a giant, it's safe to say that it's probably going to fit everyone perfectly due to some enchantment.

 

The second, well, while you might not have a huge amount of experience in a particular piece of armour, you do have a huge amount of experience wearing armour in general, which would make you used to fighting in it. You wouldn't be encumbered wearing armour. You wouldn't find your attacks or movement significantly affected. You'd be a hell of a lot fitter.

 

Over a long battle, yeah, you'd tire a bit quicker. But not majorly so. Fighting in armour really isn't that much more taxing.

 

And yeah, I do agree that armour design in games needs work for reasons other than "sexiness". But I was responding primarily to your claim that "if Bioware really wanted to be "realistic", then they'd give all heavy armor a severe penalty to things like movement speed, attack speed, battle vision (if they're wearing a helmet with narrow vision), flexibility, and exhaustion in battle, as well as requiring the player to remove them on occasion to prevent overheating. " Which is, of course, utter bollocks. Heavy armour does no such thing.

[eyezonlyii]

I still don't understand the "realism" argument some people are making. Even if you put aside the fact that this is a fantasy game, I think it's safe to say that there's barely any armor in any sci-fi/fantasy game that would be as protective and practical in real-life as the game suggests. For example, Dark Souls has a set of armor made from solid rock, even though an actual person wearing such armor would barely be able to move in it, let alone fight. Or take the typical Space Marine armor in Warhammer 40k. Many people who've cosplayed such armor say it's incredibly bulky, restrictive, overheating, etc. And as I said earlier, if Bioware really wanted to be "realistic", then they'd give all heavy armor a severe penalty to things like movement speed, attack speed, battle vision (if they're wearing a helmet with narrow vision), flexibility, and exhaustion in battle, as well as requiring the player to remove them on occasion to prevent overheating. Of course, tons of players would find this annoying and complain if they did that. If you can accept that break from reality, why can't you accept "sexy armor" as one?

 

My point is, if you're going to hold all in-game armor to the same real-life standards that you're subjecting "sexy armor" to, then the full-body-covering armors that you're putting on a pedestal would have just as many shortcomings. Developers use some artistic license with armor all the time. Whether they do so to make the armor look "cool", "sexy", "scary", or whatever else their goal is is irrelevant to me.

They did kind of address this in Origins with the fatigue system. Heavier armor made your talents cost more to use and drew more aggro from enemies. Also if I remember correctly, many of the higher tiered heavy and massive armors had penalties to dexterity (the stat that decreased your chances of being hit)

[someguy1231]

Well, the first point has some validity, although given that the same armour fits everyone from a midget to a giant, it's safe to say that it's probably going to fit everyone perfectly due to some enchantment.

 

The second, well, while you might not have a huge amount of experience in a particular piece of armour, you do have a huge amount of experience wearing armour in general, which would make you used to fighting in it. You wouldn't be encumbered wearing armour. You wouldn't find your attacks or movement significantly affected. You'd be a hell of a lot fitter.

 

Over a long battle, yeah, you'd tire a bit quicker. But not majorly so. Fighting in armour really isn't that much more taxing.

 

And yeah, I do agree that armour design in games needs work for reasons other than "sexiness". But I was responding primarily to your claim that "if Bioware really wanted to be "realistic", then they'd give all heavy armor a severe penalty to things like movement speed, attack speed, battle vision (if they're wearing a helmet with narrow vision), flexibility, and exhaustion in battle, as well as requiring the player to remove them on occasion to prevent overheating. " Which is, of course, utter bollocks. Heavy armour does no such thing.

 

"The second, well, while you might not have a huge amount of experience in a particular piece of armour, you do have a huge amount of experience wearing armour in general, which would make you used to fighting in it."

 

Let's take a look at what you said earlier:

 

"And of course, anyone fighting in such armour will likely have spent a lot of time practising in it, so they'll be used to it."

 

Here, you're referring to a particular set of armor. Yet now you're referring to armor in general. Which is it? If people in real-life can easily adapt to any set of armor, why would you have mentioned someone getting used to a particular set of armor?

 

"And yeah, I do agree that armour design in games needs work for reasons other than "sexiness". But I was responding primarily to your claim that "if Bioware really wanted to be "realistic", then they'd give all heavy armor a severe penalty to things like movement speed, attack speed, battle vision (if they're wearing a helmet with narrow vision), flexibility, and exhaustion in battle, as well as requiring the player to remove them on occasion to prevent overheating. " Which is, of course, utter bollocks. Heavy armour does no such thing."

 

Read this article, and then tell me it's "utter bollocks":http://www.bbc.co.uk...onment-14204717

[someguy1231]

They did kind of address this in Origins with the fatigue system. Heavier armor made your talents cost more to use and drew more aggro from enemies. Also if I remember correctly, many of the higher tiered heavy and massive armors had penalties to dexterity (the stat that decreased your chances of being hit)

Meh, I always viewed the whole fatigue system as a half-hearted measure to make sure mages wearing plate wouldn't be overpowered. Better than nothing, I guess, but nowhere near enough if we're going to judge heavy armor "realistically".

[Hadeedak]

They're not going to please everyone. It sounds like some people would like more elaborate, stylized armor. With or without very obvious gender indicators that may be impractical.

 

I really like looking at simple armor. I think there's a beauty in simplicity, and even some of the (real) parade armor earlier in the thread gives me a headache, metaphorically. I'd rather see a straightforward, utilitarian piece, and if visual interest must be added, I'd just as soon see it done with layers of fabric and possibly some paint. Granted, this is a fantasy with fancy fantasy materials that may be more flexible, lighter-weight, whatever, but for me, visually, it's hard to beat simple chainmail with cloth over it. 

 

My opinion is just as valid than Bob down the street, who's also buying this game and wants everyone to dress like it's 80s sword and sorcery in here. And to be fair, Bob's glitzy opinion is just as valid as my stodgy one.

 

I'm probably going to roll my eyes a little if my dwarf has to tank in a halter top, but with Iron Bull standing right there, I won't grouse too much about gender-dimorphic armor (I'll be too busy going "It's breaking my immmmmmmmersion!" in a really whiny voice anyway). I have a sneaking suspicion that Cole's hat will always be floppy and Iron Bull will always be waging a one-man war on shirts.

 

Personally, I hope for rather mundane, simple armor to contrast with striking scenery. Off duty clothes, if they exist, can be where fancy times happen. Armor is like... Well, if you're in the roller derby, you wear knee and elbow pads. If you're in the desert, you wear cotton. If you're in the Arctic, and it's winter, you wear lots of wool and polar fleece. It should be bloomin' practical. If you're fighting, you cover your whole torso. 

 

But your mileage may vary.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

They did kind of address this in Origins with the fatigue system. Heavier armor made your talents cost more to use and drew more aggro from enemies. Also if I remember correctly, many of the higher tiered heavy and massive armors had penalties to dexterity (the stat that decreased your chances of being hit)

 

Yeah, thats why even my arcane warrior i used robes and such on.  Especially a third party one that I have that gives enchantment based armor and defense rather than being massive armor.  It even has "Restriction: Arcane Warrior" on it

[Giantdeathrobot]

They're not going to please everyone. It sounds like some people would like more elaborate, stylized armor. With or without very obvious gender indicators that may be impractical.

 

I really like looking at simple armor. I think there's a beauty in simplicity, and even some of the (real) parade armor earlier in the thread gives me a headache, metaphorically. I'd rather see a straightforward, utilitarian piece, and if visual interest must be added, I'd just as soon see it done with layers of fabric and possibly some paint. Granted, this is a fantasy with fancy fantasy materials that may be more flexible, lighter-weight, whatever, but for me, visually, it's hard to beat simple chainmail with cloth over it. 

 

My opinion is just as valid than Bob down the street, who's also buying this game and wants everyone to dress like it's 80s sword and sorcery in here. And to be fair, Bob's glitzy opinion is just as valid as my stodgy one.

 

I'm probably going to roll my eyes a little if my dwarf has to tank in a halter top, but with Iron Bull standing right there, I won't grouse too much about gender-dimorphic armor (I'll be too busy going "It's breaking my immmmmmmmersion!" in a really whiny voice anyway). I have a sneaking suspicion that Cole's hat will always be floppy and Iron Bull will always be waging a one-man war on shirts.

 

Personally, I hope for rather mundane, simple armor to contrast with striking scenery. Off duty clothes, if they exist, can be where fancy times happen. Armor is like... Well, if you're in the roller derby, you wear knee and elbow pads. If you're in the desert, you wear cotton. If you're in the Arctic, and it's winter, you wear lots of wool and polar fleece. It should be bloomin' practical. If you're fighting, you cover your whole torso. 

 

But your mileage may vary.

 

They showed an armor of Iron Bull that fully covered him, in the E3 demo I think. It is likely that he goes shirtless for some time, but with the crafting system if you want to hulk him out in a suit of full plate you can go right ahead I'd wager. 

 

I mean, you can even commit the heresy of covering Varric's Chest Hair. Think it's safe to say companions will wear what you want them to wear.

 

Personally, almost all of the armors we have seen so far from Inquisition please me. I have no fear the game with suit my tastes of armor that looks like armor, while still having some room for style over practicality in a visual medium.

[aTigerslunch]

@Kefka, I didn't say they was stupid or lack of depth. I said that I find it sexual appeasing to myself. Some others may agree. I wont take them seriously, as in, when I look at sexualized women, that is what they appear for me, sexualized. I didn't say they wasn't smart.

 

Knowing myself and how I react to certain things has actually helped a lot.

 

 

So, thanks for putting words in my mouth.

[Hadeedak]

 

I mean, you can even commit the heresy of covering Varric's Chest Hair. 

Pre-order canceled. 

[Medhia_Nox]

You're fighting a war against demons who BROKE THE WORLD.

 

Is this a serious discussion? 

"Oh, but I just want a little kink before going out to free that village - don't judge me!"

Since we're sharing our insights.  I think sexualized people are overly sensitive to anyone criticizing them and should just pursue their consensual sexual identities freely and happily with their partners and stop trying to tell me about myself because I'm not interested in their habits. 

 

The modern world is perhaps the first time in history where the hedonist dictates moral authority over the stoic.  It is a sin to practice moderation in our new world - heaven forbid abstinence (and no, I don't just mean sexual abstinence).

 

As for fighting in lingerie with a feather duster... no thanks. 

[Seraphim24]

I'm still just curious though, what is this other thing that people are so interested in pursuing instead? I'm not worried about anyone judging me for wanting a girl (in this instance) to have a hot outfit. This seems like a perfectly cool thing to want. Plus there's nothing actually sexualized about that beyond making the girl look good. Most games with hotter outfits have far less overt sex than Dragon Age. DA is all about tame outfits but lots of actual carnal sex and imagery. If that's not backwards, I don't know what is.

 

I take it you care you primarily about the blowing of people up using massive weapons and just the general slaughtering of people?