2576 réponses à ce sujet

[RedWulfi]

How is this dragon age related, now? XD

[Hadeedak]

I don't really care anymore, I probably won't even end up playing DA:I at this rate. But you guys will and I'm sure the designs will reflect your tastes in that respect.

 

I guess I just wanted to establish to my satisfaction that one person's progressive hero is another person's ultra-conservative reactionary... it certainly has felt that way to me, at any rate.

 

 

Shocking development on the internet: differing tastes and opinions about aesthetics!

[Panda]

I think this would only be ok if the player also got the choice of skimpy male armor and full female armor...

 

Yes. I think it should be both skimpy or both full armor or then choice for both between options. That is equality for me.

[Remmirath]

There is an anti-sexual agenda. Ok, let me put it this way, you continually seem to forget that this is a video game, designed to make people have fun, not strictly to reflect the realities or necessities of their daily life.

You continually seem to forget (or perhaps ignore?) that fun is not something that is universally defined. Individual people have different definitions of fun. Yours is not the only definition, and it is not necessarily the most common, either. I won't claim to know what is -- I've done no sort of study or poll on it, formal or otherwise -- but there are clearly at least a significant number of people in this thread who disagree with you in whole or in part.
 

You guys are just dragging way too much of reality in period, way too much of if I was going to go carpentering with my father level nonsense. No one cares, we're all here to have fun, that's the only objective, it's NOT complicated. Attractive outfits and people are fun, period, that should be the end of it. Your incessant mewling about the rules or the way the game needs to be just strikes me as silly, disingenuous, and obfuscating when games can be literally anything they want to be, they don't even have to be games at all.

No, it's not complicated. Revealing armour increases your level of fun. It decreases mine. Practical armour that I consider cool-looking increases my level of fun. Apparently it decreases yours. Other people come down on one or the other side, with some really not caring whatsoever.

And yes, games can be anything they want to be, but that includes adhering to some standards of realism or at least plausability. Certainly not all games have to, or even should, but we are speaking of one particular game here, which is the third in a series of games with an already established setting and general aesthetic. Also, the rules are very important with regards to how much many people are going to enjoy the game, because they determine how the game is played.
 

Bioware is where it is today because they had sassy rogues and handsome paladins adventuring you throughout the wilderness, slashing and hacking at things while enjoying a mug of ale, and then retiring to the nearest Inn. This mega-level puritanical BS movement that evolved since then, and which has made various games and media their punching bags needs to die.

None of that has anything to do with the design of armour. It's awfully hard to tell exactly what the armour looks like on the characters in Baldur's Gate, if that's where you're going with this, but it also doesn't matter so much because of the whole sprite/portrait combination. In fact, BioWare has generally been on the more reasonable end of armour in games (despite my complaints with some specific decisions at times), so clearly it's not hurting their success. I won't say it has anything to do with it, either.
 

I can find plenty of games that have better outfits and are focused on "fun," and they are better games because of it.

In your eyes, they are better outfits and the games are more fun and better. In my eyes, it's rather the opposite. Dragon Age is focused on fun -- only a very small number of games aren't -- but it is apparently not focused on the kind of fun you're looking for. Playing a character in an interesting setting, seeing the plot unfold and taking part in it, and fighting your way through various opponents are all fun. For a great many people who enjoy roleplaying games, a consistent and plausible setting is part of the fun, and that extends to having armour choices that coincide with that.
 

Again, I'll guarantee, with the most miniscule % chance of error, that NO ONE will ever vindicate DA historically or game-wise for being so hardcore and realistic in it's aesthetics. They might acknowledge the compelling game mechanics, or a few good characters or scenes, but the actual aesthetics of extreme chivalry and relative chastity will go down as bleh, sexually repressed, boring, and not making for a fun game. I'm not saying it's not going to sell at all, or that a handful of people will like it decently-ish, and another handful won't lie to prop the thing they decided needs to succeed, but really people are basically not going to care about Vivienne, or god I can't remember their names.. Blackwall and their obsessive need to be completely covered at all times.

There is actually middle ground between "sexually repressed" and "everything must be sexy or there is no point", you know. And for the last time, it's not boring to everyone.

I am sure that there are indeed people out there who will like or dislike the game based on revealing armour or lack thereof. I am not sure that it is a large number of people. If that is what they care about most in games, there are plenty of games out there that they should be quite happy with, indeed most games. Why must every game cater to that specific desire? Were you not earlier saying that games can and should be whatever they want?
 

What more can I say though, if you guys are that heck-bent on being on the wrong side of that history, by all means.

That's rather over-dramatic, don't you think? This isn't some manner of grand moral battle for the ages. It's just about what people like to see in their computer games.

The only moral side to this debate hinges on the fact that it often ends up with a certain portion of people saying that they believe that their desire to look at female characters in sexy armour is more important than treating female characters with as much dignity and realism as male characters. The reason that is something of a moral question is that it very easily (and unfortunately often) coincides with holding that same sort of opinion about real life, and that it's also rather unfair to a significant portion of the players of the game regardless, because realising that female characters are only in a game for eye-candy purposes is at the least a bit of a downer to most female players. If that isn't what anyone is implying, then it's all a matter of preference. When it's a question of revealing armour in equal measure between female and male characters, it is not -- certainly in the context of this specific thread-- a moral question. It's preference, and a question of what fits in with the rest of the game. The equality angle is based on morality and ethics. The question of one's personal aesthetic preferences, or indeed whether one prefers realism over aesthetics or the other way around, is only a question of individual preference and is hardly going to make history one way or another.
 

My definition of sexy believable armor....

Nice choice! I'd be quite happy to see such armour.
 

I don't really care anymore, I probably won't even end up playing DA:I at this rate. But you guys will and I'm sure the designs will reflect your tastes in that respect.

I assume there are other things about the game that you don't like as well, then; either that, or armour designs are far more important to you than they are to anyone else in this thread. I'm not ruling that out, of course, it could well be so. If that's the case, there should be a very wide range of games that appeal to you.
 

I guess I just wanted to establish to my satisfaction that one person's progressive hero is another person's ultra-conservative reactionary... it certainly has felt that way to me, at any rate.

Technically, you would be on the conservative side, since revealing armour for female characters is the status quo as far as computer games go and thus is the side of the argument which does not require changing anything, the "way it's always been", tradition, et cetera.

[Lady Luminous]

 

 

I adore all three of these. They're feminine, shapely, and just lovely to look at. That red skirt fabric just makes the armour a complete, perfect look.

[Giant ambush beetle]

 

I adore all three of these. They're feminine, shapely, and just lovely to look at. That red skirt fabric just makes the armour a complete, perfect look.

 

Also what I love about those armors is their sleek design. Shapely and smooth designs that are very good at deflecting blows are very rare in computer games, especially Bioware tends to make armor overly busy with of a million different armor pieces, layers and materials that catch blows rather than deflecting them. DAI is not going to be any different in this area judging by the armors we've seen so far.  (I loathe the Inquisitor armor, and this has nothing to do with its sexiness or realism or the lack thereof)

[bmwcrazy]

Sexy or cute for me.

Armors are for sissies.

[Lady Luminous]

Also what I love about those armors is their sleek design. Shapely and smooth designs that are very good at deflecting blows are very rare in computer games, especially Bioware tends to make armor overly busy with of a million different armor pieces, layers and materials that catch blows rather than deflecting them. DAI is not going to be any different in this area judging by the armors we've seen so far.  (I loathe the Inquisitor armor, and this has nothing to do with its sexiness or realism or the lack thereof)

 

I don't think I've seen the Inquisitor armour in a screen-shot yet. (I've been trying to stay away from the videos to increase my excitement for release day). But so far I loved the rogue armour (that leather jacket look is amazing and sleek) and the mage coat, which has such pretty sleeves. So I'm pretty pleased.

[Seraphim24]

Guh, every time I think I'm done someone manages some herculean almost interesting response. Contrary to what people would have you believe, what looks good and what doesn't look is very frequently a fairly objective thing. I'm well aware of people's "disagreements," but the fact is you can predict people's responses to and attention towards media based on a hardened analysis of it's aesthetic value. There is more attractive, less attractive, and everything in between. It's like when I see people watching the Miley Cyrus thing with the VMAs over and over and over, all the while criticizing it for what it is, I'm like yeah sure. If you really didn't like it or care for it you just wouldn't watch it.

 

The fact that you guys rely so heavily on sense and logic is nauseating, it suggests that you are using it as a crutch to navigate these unseen waters of sexuality and attractive outfits. That's fine and all, I'm sure it can be intimidating, but don't murder the messenger here. By the way, I do not see revealing or attractive as the norm at all, especially not in the video games, unless you are still playing at some arcade from the 80s. The shift towards more conservative themes and appearances has been steady and is frankly culminating at this point.

 

That is because of years and years and months of steady complaints on that front, and frankly maybe it's time to just abandon AAA gaming as having been entirely co-opted by a kind of Christian front, no, not the evangelical Christians, but the conservative movement birthed by nerds. Their brand of liberalism is more tolerable than some crazed guy on TV, but it's still frankly very moral and at least repressive to a degree.

 

It's far less terrifying or overt as you guys are making it out to be, here was a pretty cool one from Fire Emblem.

 

 

Is it hot? Yeah, is it too crazy? No. It's just meant to appeal to people, it's meant to be fun, nothing more, nothing less. And yes, I'm thinking of not playing DA:I for more reasons than just the outfits. I think it's the fact that there is so much attention and irritation at something I see as really mostly harmless, we're not even discussing core themes or which character lives or dies or things of that nature, it's freaking clothes that frequently has people so agitated.

[Bugsie]

Well said.
 
Exposed skin makes a lot more sense for your unarmored classes, like mages.

Yeah definitely.

I can see certain types of armour for certain games and for certain classes in DA. Bikini armour for warriors in DA is totally out of place.

[Seraphim24]

If I'm not mistaken though, there isn't even anything like that in DA:I for mages right? It was Morrigan, Dalish Elf, then nothing.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

It's far less terrifying or overt as you guys are making it out to be, here was a pretty cool one from Fire Emblem.

 

 

Is it hot? Yeah, is it too crazy? No. It's just meant to appeal to people, it's meant to be fun, nothing more, nothing less. And yes, I'm thinking of not playing DA:I for more reasons than just the outfits. I think it's the fact that there is so much attention and irritation at something I see as really mostly harmless, we're not even discussing core themes or which character lives or dies or things of that nature, it's freaking clothes that frequently has people so agitated.

Best girl armor from Fire Emblem:

[Bugsie]

That's beautiful Kallen.

I do a bit of sewing and I'm a big fan of beautiful fabrics, in essence I like decorative armours for the same reason I like interesting fabrics and textiles.

[Voragoras]

Best girl from Fire Emblem:

 

I dunno, I kinda liked Nephenee.

 

[The Elder King]

If I'm not mistaken though, there isn't even anything like that in DA:I for mages right? It was Morrigan, Dalish Elf, then nothing.

There was a Chasind outfit comparable to those.

[Finnn62]

Guh, every time I think I'm done someone manages some herculean almost interesting response. Contrary to what people would have you believe, what looks good and what doesn't look is very frequently a fairly objective thing. I'm well aware of people's "disagreements," but the fact is you can predict people's responses to and attention towards media based on a hardened analysis of it's aesthetic value. There is more attractive, less attractive, and everything in between. It's like when I see people watching the Miley Cyrus thing with the VMAs over and over and over, all the while criticizing it for what it is, I'm like yeah sure. If you really didn't like it or care for it you just wouldn't watch it.

 

The fact that you guys rely so heavily on sense and logic is nauseating, it suggests that you are using it as a crutch to navigate these unseen waters of sexuality and attractive outfits. That's fine and all, I'm sure it can be intimidating, but don't murder the messenger here. By the way, I do not see revealing or attractive as the norm at all, especially not in the video games, unless you are still playing at some arcade from the 80s. The shift towards more conservative themes and appearances has been steady and is frankly culminating at this point.

 

That is because of years and years and months of steady complaints on that front, and frankly maybe it's time to just abandon AAA gaming as having been entirely co-opted by a kind of Christian front, no, not the evangelical Christians, but the conservative movement birthed by nerds. Their brand of liberalism is more tolerable than some crazed guy on TV, but it's still frankly very moral and at least repressive to a degree.

 

It's far less terrifying or overt as you guys are making it out to be, here was a pretty cool one from Fire Emblem.

 

 

Is it hot? Yeah, is it too crazy? No. It's just meant to appeal to people, it's meant to be fun, nothing more, nothing less. And yes, I'm thinking of not playing DA:I for more reasons than just the outfits. I think it's the fact that there is so much attention and irritation at something I see as really mostly harmless, we're not even discussing core themes or which character lives or dies or things of that nature, it's freaking clothes that frequently has people so agitated.

Sure, I wouldn't mind if that kind of style got some representation for both male and female outfits. However, personally, I still find the full plate more attractive. That's not logic, it's purely personal preference. I'm not going to justify it. Attractiveness is a subjective thing, at least for me. Maybe the rest of society works differently, idk. The outfit you posted is mostly harmless as long as it doesn't get pushed on me as "objectively" attractive. 

Sure, I've watched the Miley Cyrus videos. They got a lot of media attention and some funny response videos: 

Spoiler

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

I'll try a different analogy. Let's say that you are very fond of chocolate. You are going to attend a barbecue, which is billed as being entirely concerned with grilled meats of various descriptions. You want to attend this barbecue, perhaps because every other aspect of the event appeals to you, but the only way you like meat is if it is dipped in chocolate. It is totally reasonable to bring a pot of chocolate with you so that you and anyone else, if they choose, may dip the steak into the chocolate before eating it. It would even be reasonable to request from the host that they set aside one extra piece of steak for you, pre-chocolate dipped for your enjoyment. It would not be reasonable for you to insist that a certain percentage of the steaks be chocolate dipped. It certainly wouldn't be reasonable to insist that, say, a quarter of the steaks given to brown-haired individuals be dipped in chocolate, but none of the others (because you like seeing brown-haired people eat chocolate dipped steaks, or because you yourself are brown-haired). That last is how revealing armour has been handled in every game I have seen thus far, with the chocolate dipped steaks being the revealing armour, and the brown-haired individuals being female characters.

 

Okay, first of all points for making a sillier analogy than even i am known for on other forums.  Really, that is a feat when I think your analogy is off the wall silly, but as I am myself known for such things, I'll run with your analogy, this will be fun!

 

Say I am part of a group that dips their steaks in chocolate.  We are partially funding this barbecue.  We aren't asking that all steaks be dipped in chocolate, and by all means if all brown-haired people must eat chocolate dipped steaks, then by that opposite respect, non-brown haired individuals can't? Well, I'm against that very much, as I am a blonde, and I want my steak dipped in chocolate!  If every barbecue that has ever dipped steaks in chocolate has only made them available to brown-haired people, then they are doing it wrong, and nobody I agree with is asking them to do this, it's their own stupid idea on who should be eating chocolate steaks.  No, I and my group want the chocolate-dipped steaks to be an OPTION for persons of every hair color...

 

To take it back to the topic at hand, and not the silly (but fun!) chocolate analogy, it may be Bioware Austin and not the Dragon Age team, but still it's Bioware, has made great strides in this area with Star Wars the Old Republic lately.  They've made (with the help of a player on the forums that did the very thing we are doing here, only his focus was MEN) many revealing outfits that are not gender-restricted and are quite popular.   Is everyone forced to wear them? Nope, you can still wear any of the many non-revealing armors they release regularly especially because by the nature of the game what you wear is just a "shell" and you can put any stats you want to on the armor (even the wrong ones arrgh the 55 KDY graduates... No, you are a sentinel don't stack willpower I don't care what you think about it increasing your force power, you are doing it wrong!).   The revealing ones are maybe 25% of the armors released (some content packs have more, some have less).   That's all I am asking, I can't speak for others in this thread, is some options for both genders.   Trust me, if Bioware will let me make my male Inquisitor Conan the Barbarian, I will do so just as I will make Red Sonja.  I will also have a female Inquisitor in full Templar plate too (well, I did in DA2, got it from Meredith.. not sure if they will have Templar plate for us in DAI, but I hope so)

[Hanako Ikezawa]

That's beautiful Kallen.

I do a bit of sewing and I'm a big fan of beautiful fabrics, in essence I like decorative armours for the same reason I like interesting fabrics and textiles.

I think so too. Glad you like it.

 

Here it is full size if you want a more detailed look: 

Spoiler

 

I dunno, I kinda liked Nephenee.

 

I meant to say 'girl armor', though Minerva is still probably my favorite female character. Nephenee is another one though. 

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

I think it's okay to go sexy and impractical way in video games if it's done equally to both genders. It's simply sexist if male character has full armor and female character steel bikini. There should be equality.

 

This is not okay and shouldn't be tolerated:

 

 

I agree completely.  Make two versions of that armor for the woman, AND two versions for the man too while you are at it.  That's all I ask.

[Muspade]

 

 

Is it hot? Yeah, is it too crazy? No. It's just meant to appeal to people, it's meant to be fun, nothing more, nothing less. And yes, I'm thinking of not playing DA:I for more reasons than just the outfits. I think it's the fact that there is so much attention and irritation at something I see as really mostly harmless, we're not even discussing core themes or which character lives or dies or things of that nature, it's freaking clothes that frequently has people so agitated.

 

If she's thinking of taking up a sword and shield in that outfit, i'll make her my jester. Otherwise, I'll assume she's some sort of courtesan.

Your arguements are becoming a bit like tossing thin air at a wall, though. Not beneficial to anyone but amusing to watch.

[Bugsie]

@AbsolutGrndZer0 I get what your saying but part of me feels that Bioware doesn't have the fantasy game that is along the lines of the world Conan inhabits in mind with DA.

I'm seeing a few different preferences here, I'd argue that the kind if fantasy I see in DA is along Arthurian lines, whereas others have preferences for more jRPG and Barbarian (Conan) like fantasy armours.

No harm in asking and stating your preferences though.

And chocolate chicken mole (yummy) but chocolate steak?!? No thanks!!!

Heh.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

@AbsolutGrndZer0 I get what your saying but part of me feels that Bioware doesn't have the fantasy game that is along the lines of the world Conan inhabits in mind with DA.

I'm seeing a few different preferences here, I'd argue that the kind if fantasy I see in DA is along Arthurian lines, whereas others have preferences for more jRPG and Barbarian (Conan) like fantasy armours.

No harm in asking and stating your preferences though.

And chocolate chicken mole (yummy) but chocolate steak?!? No thanks!!!

Heh.

 

Hey now, don't be knocking our chocolate steaks... We'll have to go medieval on your hiney.

[Rykoth]

Here's my opinion.

 

Setting. Setting. Setting.

 

Conan the Cimmerian? Half naked men and women. It MAKES SENSE.

 

Game of Thrones? It makes sense that in the north, they are covered, in the south its loose clothing, and in the culture of Quarth, one breast is bared. (In the books at least.) SETTING SETTING SETTING.

 

Dragon Age has NEVER given any indication that it would make any sense for a warrior to be half naked.

 

So therefore, half naked skimpy armors have no place.

 

And for those of you saying it's an attack on sexuality? BS!

 

I'm all for nudity. I wish Bioware would step up and be as mature as CD Projekt Red and show nudity in their characters instead of pasted on bra and panties. But I want it to make sense in context.A romance scene for example. But not as stupdid half naked armor. Buxom triple X busted women have no place in Thedas. Armor of Cleavage +5 needs not apply.

 

Setting Setting Setting

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Dragon Age has NEVER given any indication that it would make any sense for a warrior to be half naked.

 

So therefore, half naked skimpy armors have no place.

Well, there were a few impractical armors in Origins, so I wouldn't say never.