2576 réponses à ce sujet

[eyezonlyii]

Why is her left breast wearing a bracelet? 

I just think her outfit is winking

[Apricot]

I haven't read the better part of this thread so some may or may not have already said this but as a female I would like to have both armor choices. I like playing sexy, powerful females that kick ass and like armor that goes with the fantasy setting but looks just as sexy and awesome as the character I've created. I don't need realistic armor because this isn't supposed to be a realistic game. If I'm fighting flying dragons with magic ice I'm perfectly cool with her wearing a skintight leather bustier and some thigh-highs.

 

But I get not everyone's into that so a healthy mix of all kinds of armor would be perfect.

[puppyofwar]

How do you guys even know.. like what the flying doughnut is pixiv? Why would you even be on a Japanese site? You are kind of helping to prove my theory that there is a secret kind of Japan-O-phile obsession beneath the surface of modern gaming incidentally.

 

I'm sure if I visited this site (whatever it is) there may indeed but 4-5 to 12 pictures, or whatever it is, so yes, not absolute non-existence, it's you know, 5. Look, I am well aware that Mass Effect or whatever sold something like 100k units or something, my point is there is a big divergence of interest generally, I'm not here to tip-toe around small details like that. There are countless games where it's western sales, 2-3-4-5 million, whatever, Japanese .2 million or something.

 

1. Dude, if you don't know what kind of site pixiv is , than you have no effing clue whatsoever about Japanese ACG culture.

2. I happen to be a Taiwanese. But I doubt you know what that means, so I will just save my breath and report you. 

[Bugsie]

 

Which picture? The one with Leelee Sobieski? That's from the Joan of Arc movie.

 

 

Edit: Ah, I'm wrong it's Dungeon Siege, but her armor looks a bit similar in both movies.

Yeah a bit similar.

 

 

@ puppyofwar, I wouldn't bother, use the ignore feature, my god its awesome and a great filter for tiresome inanity.

[puppyofwar]

All right, so I looked up ACG, it's people who aren't Japanese that seem to obsessed with Japanese culture... um... isn't that what I said? I feel like I just said what you were, not sure why that's offensive. I guess you aren't very secret about your interest? Well, it was a secret to me because you never mentioned an interest in anything Japanese until you just kind of sprung it on me there, let alone defend the integrity of their aesthetic products as I have been attempting to do. In fact, you have been advocating the opposite, practical and functional armor (not common in Japanese gaming), that's precisely the kind of contradiction I'm zeroing in on.

This is my last reply to you.

You apparently have no clue about that "Japanese Gaming culture" you seems so eager to defend, and the fact I consume their pop culture do not mean I have to agree with everything about it.

Ciao   * exit stage left

[Seraphim24]

Oh rest assured I don't, that's pretty much exactly my point. I'm standing up here defending Japanese games and aesthetics vigorously because I think they have some awesome art styles.

 

Meanwhile, I'm being told by a whole bunch of people who, apparently have a much greater interest in Japanese games and society than I do, that Japanese art aesthetics are kind of weak and lame in many ways, practical armor in best. 

 

Seems odd, is all. Also I'm not defending a Japanese Gaming Culture I know nothing about, I'm attempting to defend their aesthetics and design choices as valid for more than just their supposedly limited stylistic direction. They strike me as more universally valid.

 

Honestly these posts have gotten pretty long but it's really not very complicated to me. Japanese games borrow gameplay mechanics and ideas from western game quite frequently, whereas I think western companies should take more from the artistic side, not too crazy I would think.

[GrinningRogue]

Ever watched 300? Now if only all games dress males like that. But of course, only the handsome ones.

[puppyofwar]

Ever watched 300? Now if only all games dress males like that. But of course, only the handsome ones.

Now THAT is a good setting for amor-kini galore

[PhroXenGold]

I'll also just address the realism thing one more time because people are insisting I don't read it, the simple fact why I can't understand that argument is because I personally have never experienced that phenomenon. In fact, I actually find sexiness in serious games to be even more compelling than if I find it in a an already stylized/sexy game. It breaks the mold in one instance and not in the other.

 

I was just playing some KOA, and you have

 

 

running around. I simply don't go "oh my god, she's gonna get stabbed." I go, oh awesome, she looks cute. Good thing I can experience something fun in my life. I suspect a lot of people are conditioned into believing that what they should say is oh that's bad because she's gonna die, that is what's correct, but maybe that's not what they necessarily want.

 

I could chalk it up to irreconcilable difference,s but then you find dozens of Skyrim Mods or whatever it is that presumably would break the internal consistency of those games, and yet they are obviously electing against that theory to put them in there. In this very thread there are people who have argued against it, but then you throw up one picture of Wonder Woman and people are fawning over her. It seems to me central to Wonder Woman's appeal that she is liberated sexually, she's going to look good, dang it all.

 

I just say, lets eradicate this distinction between public and private behavior, accept the interest regardless of setting, and be done with it. I suspect then people would start talking more about whether she really is that cute, maybe she would be even more cute with a different set of clothes that left more to the imagination. The extremist over-reaction that is somehow bad in some way or another strikes me as offendedness and intimidation though, for the most part.

 

Even GoT has it's moments what with Daenaerys and all, it's not fantasy if there's no fantasy.

 

And I'm saying 'most' people, not 'all' people. There are I'm sure a few people who in their private moments fantasize deeply about a fully clothed female or something.

 

Thing is, reading this, it still comes off that you haven't actually paid any attention to what other people are saying. You might have read the posts, but you haven't understood them. And just because you personally don't hold the same views as those posts shouldn't prevent you understanding them. Being able to look at matters from other people's perspectives is a pretty basic aspect of being a well adjusted human being.

 

You bringing up characters like Wonder Woman and Daenaerys typifies this lack of understanding. Neither is remotely relevant to the discussion at hand. Yes, WW wears very revaling clothes. Is this a problem? No. Because it fits the setting shes in and the character she is. Given how the DC world works, there'd be no difference between her wearing a burkha and a bikini, so it doesn't matter what she wears (although, again, I'll point out that her outfit has nothing to do with "expressing sexuality" or such, it's there to give teenage boys a boner. Trying to present her, or pretty much any comic book female character, as a positive example of sexuality is hillarious. They're simple titilation, nothing more). If it actively appeared to hinder her - as someone suggested the boots might before they realised that they didn't cover the back of the legs - this could be an issue, but merely exposing flesh in such a setting is fine. Daenaerys is attractive yes, she has "sexy" scenes but again, there's nothing wrong with attractiveness, with sexiness in "gritty realistic" settings. I don't think anyone here is saying it is. We're not trying to, despite your constant (rather insulting) insinuations, trying to suppress sexuality. We enjoy looking at attractive persons of <whichever sex we are attracted to>, and we enjoy looking at them in revealing outfits. We don't want to stop them from wearing such outfits. We just think it's ridiculous that they would wear such outfits in the middle of battle if they are in a setting where armour has been demonstrated to work in roughly the same manner that it does in reality. Neither WW or Daenaerys breaks this rule - the former is not in such a setting, the latter doesn't go all sexy at a completely inapproapriate time.

 

As for why we like those settings, well, for me, it's because they give a real sense of immersion. We have a basic understanding of how this world works, therefore if a fictional world works in much the same manner, with additional, consistent fanatsy elements, we can understand how that world works, thus enabling us to immerse ourselves deeper in the world. If a world works significnatly differently, then we're spending time trying to understand these differences, particularly if they're inconsistent, instead of immersing ourselves. And on top of this, we think "realistic" armours (and other aspects like weapons, architecture etc,) look damn cool. We think they look attractive - not sexy perhaps - but attractive none-the-less. They appeal to our aesthetic tastes. Not every aspect of appearance is about sex - which incidentally doesn't mean it's about suppressing sexuality, it's simply about putting other concerns above sexuality when immersing ourselves in fictional worlds - and looking like you're capable of kicking ass and taking an absolute beating - which realistic amour does - in the middle of battle is, for us, far more important then getting your breasts out.

 

I haven't played KoA (I have it sitting on my Steam account after picking it up in a sale a couple of months back but haven't got round to trying it yet), so I can't really judge your image as it's utterly dependant on the mechanics and aesthetics of the setting. Would I object to an outfit like that in a setting like DA, or GoT or similar? Yes. Would I object to an outfit like that in a setting like a D.C. comic book? No. Now, sure, I personally do prefer the former type of setting, but I've nothing against the latter, I acknowledge there is an audience for them and wouldn't try to stop such settings from existing. And, indeed, if they're well crafted and internally consistent, I can happily enjoy them. But reagardless of what style it is, creating such a consistent setting is one of the core principles of worldbuilding and storytelling. Not doing so is poor and/or lazy writing.

 

Do a lot of mods for games like Skyrim and DA add "sexy" outfits (and I use the term very losesly)? Yes. And I don't have a problem with this. If people want to put them in their games, go for it. That's their choice. But at the same time, a lot of mods don't have that kind of outfits. It's not by any means an overwhelming majority either way. So the game developers have to make a choice which way their setting tends to. Trying to appeal to everyone just ends up with a laughably inconsitent world with little immersion. Some go one way, some go the other. This is a good thing. It allows for a much wider variety of games and worlds for us to explore.

 

Not to mention, as with WW, the vast majority of "sexy armour" in these mods is simple objectification of women. There's no empowerment, there's no celebration of their sexuality. It's simply there to satisfy the fanatsies of male gamers. Now, if that's what you want, fine. Go for it. I'm not going to try to stop you. It would be pretty hypocritical of me to object to such objectification - hell, I enjoy looking at naked ladies, and I've got an internet's worth of porn to enjoy. But don't try to present it as some kind of "sexual liberation". It's not. It's whacking material, nothing more. And what I, and the other people in this thread, object to, is not such material appearing in games, it's it appearing in settings and situations where it makes no sense what so ever for it to appear.

 

And then you bring up crap like "I just say, lets eradicate this distinction between public and private behavior, accept the interest regardless of setting, and be done with it". This has aboslutely nothing to do with the topic at hand. No-one here is promting such a distinction. When it comes to outfits, we're promoting a distintion between "being in combat" and "not being in combat", which is just frankly common sense. Not to mention, this seems a very odd statement for someone who seems to glorify Japanese culture. The distinction between public and private is far greater there than in the West.

 

edit: Thought of a few more things to say after posting and fixed some horrible typos...

Modifié par PhroXenGold, 14 octobre 2014 - 10:44 .

[GrinningRogue]

Now THAT is a good setting for amor-kini galore

I was thinking more along the lines of just the males (just to make a point). But yes, the setting does allow for such things. And I think they do it too with the queen, even though she's still more covered than the soldiers. Ha . When non combatants are more covered than soldiers.

[The Elder King]

A person that likes Japanese games/manga/anime, or their artstyle don't have to hate a more realistic artstyle. A person can like both, and prefer to see both artstyles, either in different games or as different choices in outfits in the same one. And a person can like Japanese media without liking the artstyle.
I do like sexy outfits. That doesn't mean I necessarily want my characters wearing them in combat and exploration, Regardless if the game is Japanese or western. And that's not Because I'm brainwashed in believing that the character will die if it's in that outfit (my immersion in combat was Broken since DAO when Flemeth and Andraste used my characters as chewing gum and They survived), but Because I like realistic types of armours as well, and I prefer to use them in exploration.
I have fun in equipping my characters in different armours and outfits, using more heavier outfits with protective clothes for the colder areas, and more lighter one for the hotter ones (like I hope I can do in DAI). I Simply have fun in different ways.

[Revan Reborn]

Oh rest assured I don't, that's pretty much exactly my point. I'm standing up here defending Japanese games and aesthetics vigorously because I think they have some awesome art styles.

 

Meanwhile, I'm being told by a whole bunch of people who, apparently have a much greater interest in Japanese games and society than I do, that Japanese art aesthetics are kind of weak and lame in many ways, practical armor in best. 

 

Seems odd, is all. Also I'm not defending a Japanese Gaming Culture I know nothing about, I'm attempting to defend their aesthetics and design choices as valid for more than just their supposedly limited stylistic direction. They strike me as more universally valid.

 

Honestly these posts have gotten pretty long but it's really not very complicated to me. Japanese games borrow gameplay mechanics and ideas from western game quite frequently, whereas I think western companies should take more from the artistic side, not too crazy I would think.

I don't believe anyone ever claimed Japanese aesthetics are "kind of weak and lame." What we did say is they are not appropriate for Dragon Age, and that goes back to the original point of this thread...

 

What's great about modding in Skyrim is that anyone can create what they want. Even those, like yourself, who clearly believe the Japanese "aesthetic" is superior. That being said, they are only player-created mods, and most of the armor in the base game that BGS created is far from your definition of sexy.

 

As far as Neogaf is concerned, it's a community largely dominated by Playstation 4 fans, so I'll let your poll speak for itself. Also, did you notice that the Wii U is performing worse than the Sega Dreamcast currently? Nintendo really hasn't been relevant since N64-Gamecube era as the Wii was a gimmick to appeal to casual gamers (not the gaming community) with their motion sensitivity.

 

Wii U tried to copy the Wii, and because Nintendo failed to realize that the casual crowd moved on to smart phones, tablets, and other social games, while also failing to realize they lost a lot of their long-time fans because of the gimmick that the Wii was, they now have a pointless console that only appeals to the most hardcore of Nintendo fans, which clearly is not many.

 

Your argument against Wonder Woman is silly considering her outfit is staying true to the source material, and she is also a demigoddess/super hero... She also is wearing a lot more armor than many of the examples you have provided, of which are virtually in metal bikinis exclusively or less.

 

I just find it very interesting how you are grasping at straws making connections with no clear connection to this thread such as the gratuitous nudity that happens in GoT or by attempting to undermine someone's argument because of their profile picture (that image of Princess Zelda is rather conservative given what you've been calling "sexy," "hot," or "attractive"). What females in GoT besides Brienne (who clearly isn't prancing about in a chainmail bikini) and Arya (who is a child) are even remotely related to this discussion? Most of the females don't even fight and are either from one of the major houses or are employed by the oldest profession on the planet...

 

Lets just be honest here. You have little to no factual evidence to support any of your ridiculous claims that the Japanese aesthetic is "universally recognized, more popular, and sexually liberating." These are all opinions of yours and nothing more, that you continue to try and force down everybody's throats, for reasons I really don't understand. You are more than welcome to enjoy this particular art style. No one will take that away from you. That certainly doesn't give you the right to denounce others, however, or bash every other kind of aesthetic on the planet (as the one you prefer is concentrated to a niche of games).

 

My advice to you? Learn to appreciate diversity. Learn to respect variety and that each and every game and experience isn't a deliberate copy of something else. If the gaming industry was confined by your perspective of what constitutes gaming and "hot attire," I don't believe video games would have grown or become nearly as popular as they have in the past two decades. What's so incredible about the gaming industry being as big and popular as it currently is now, you have choices. Play all the JRPGs and DoA Beach Volley Ball Editions to your heart's content. But really, do not feel entitled to try and turn every single game on the planet into that just because you believe it is "the greatest thing ever."

[Ennai and 54 others]

The simple solution is to have both but classify ALL the skimpy impractical stuff under clothing.

[Ennai and 54 others]

The simple solution is to have both but classify ALL the skimpy impractical stuff under clothing.

[Voragoras]

Is it just me, or are there some missing posts?

[Lennard Testarossa]

I haven't played KoA (I have it sitting on my Steam account after picking it up in a sale a couple of months back but haven't got round to trying it yet)

 

The game is utter shite.

[GrinningRogue]

The simple solution is to have both but classify ALL the skimpy impractical stuff under clothing.

But what about the platekini? They aren't made of cloths. And they are veeery protective. Look how sturdy they are. No arrows can penetrate them!

Here, look!

 

I can't resist

[shootist70]

Really, I'm not interested in functional, 'realistic' armour too much. This is a work of fantasy, an escapist work of fiction, and I like the fantasy hero/heroine bodies and sexiness that has always been such a big part of this genre and its escapist appeal. Dull, dour 'realism' is both misguided and unappealing (honestly, nobody ever wore heavy plate except for tournaments and set-piece battles). 

[puppyofwar]

But what about the platekini? They aren't made of cloths. And they are veeery protective. Look how sturdy they are. No arrows can penetrate them!

Here, look!

 

I can't resist

CHAFING!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Maker, at least let the poor lady wear some cloth padding underneath! That's gonna hurt like hell I tell you.....

[Lennard Testarossa]

Really, I'm not interested in functional, 'realistic' armour too much. This is a work of fantasy, an escapist work of fiction, and I like the fantasy hero/heroine bodies and sexiness that has always been such a big part of this genre and its escapist appeal. Dull, dour 'realism' is both misguided and unappealing (honestly, nobody ever wore heavy plate except for tournaments and set-piece battles). 

 

You do realize that not all fantasy is escapist, yes?

[SardaukarElite]

But what about the platekini? They aren't made of cloths. And they are veeery protective. Look how sturdy they are. No arrows can penetrate them!

Here, look!

 

I think getting penetrated might be the point.

 

I'm sorry.

[Nattfare]

CHAFING!!!!!!!!!!

Dear Maker, at least let the poor lady wear some cloth padding underneath! That's gonna hurt like hell I tell you.....

 

Looks like plastic too me. She should be fine... otherwise she would have fallen sideways because of that enormous pauldron.

[puppyofwar]

Looks like plastic too me. She should be fine... otherwise she would have fallen sideways because of that enormous pauldron.

shoulder of DOOM.

[shootist70]

You do realize that not all fantasy is escapist, yes?

We could never describe Dragon Age or fantasy works like it as ever being more of a metaphorical or analogous exploration of real world issues than of sheer escapism. 

[PhroXenGold]

The game is utter shite.

 

I'm fully expecting the plot to be shite given who wrote it, but I had hoped the gameplay could provide some enterntainment. Ah well, it only cost about £3 so no big loss if it doesn't