Ce sujet est fermé
That's what we're complaining about.
this is as nice as I can be about this. what you like or dislike something has no effect on if it makes sense inn the setting. in fact the moment people in plate didn't die horrible deaths form being cooked alive by dragon fire every complain about armor stopped making sense. ask an old D&D fan about the heat metal spell.
this is as nice as I can be about this. what you like or dislike something has no effect on if it makes sense inn the setting. in fact the moment people in plate didn't die horrible deaths form being cooked alive by dragon fire every complain about armor stopped making sense. ask an old D&D fan about the heat metal spell.
I can not like this enough.
I can not like this enough.
glad someone does I'm sure I'm gonna get 5 or 6 posts the that basically are "you just doesn't get it plate is better"
Because qunari and, to a lesser extent, dalish.
And Morrigan and Isabella.
I'm not completely against skimpy armor... Where it makes a certain breed of sense. Granted, I think Isabella's crazy, but at least she has elbow and knee pads. But if it shows up on my warrior tanks, I'm going to mutter. I may scowl.
I always wondered why Morrigan didn't wear less, given her background.
Isabella I bought as 'swashbuckling fantasy pirate'.
The dalish top/bottom things generally just annoyed me; wear a shirt or just skip it in favor of some kind of harness.
And screw the qunari, they get far too many 'our culture is just different!' passes. 
I think there's a range between 'armors must all be historically represented' and 'fantasy armor'. Think, for instance, these are beautiful; I used this mod fairly often in DA:O.
this is as nice as I can be about this. what you like or dislike something has no effect on if it makes sense inn the setting. in fact the moment people in plate didn't die horrible deaths form being cooked alive by dragon fire every complain about armor stopped making sense. ask an old D&D fan about the heat metal spell.
To quote a friend: "ENCHANTMENT"
The fine print also states that any areas not covered by armor are subject to burning.
. The continued attempts to lecture and criticize every attempt at supporting a more female/sex friendly atmosphere illustrates that BW is clearly not the hero we're looking for in this respect. All this attention towards 'realism' and 'combat' just illustrates to me that their focus and fixation is on violence and destruction, that has higher design priority than sex or attractiveness.
Uh, yes. Because we're talking about armor. Not your casual-wear, not what you're going to wear to the ball. We're talking about what you're going to wear when there's zombies controlled by that psychotic mage over there, and they're all trying to eat your face.
As for Bioware being female-friendly, I always thought they were pretty good at it. Any game with Aveline and Isabella together, and neither one being presented as superior, warms the cockles of my cantankerous heart. And Merrill, bless whatever's going on in her weird little head. Anyway, I'm no expert on JRPGs or much of modern Japanese culture, but from what I've seen, I do love Bioware's diverse personalities (and outfits!) a heckuva a lot more than cookie-cutter-female-personality-1.02. No, I haven't forgiven 'Howl's Moving Castle' for what it did to Sophie. I LOVED THAT BOOK AS A KID AND THEY DEFANGED HER AND IT WAS TRAGIC.
*cough* Uh. Sorry. Anyway. Opinions are subjective, but if we're talking about armor, there's going to be some emphasis on hitting things and getting hit, because that's what armor's for. If we were talking about stoves, I imagine we'd talk about cooking.
Guest_E-Ro_*
Uh, yes. Because we're talking about armor. Not your casual-wear, not what you're going to wear to the ball. We're talking about what you're going to wear when there's zombies controlled by that psychotic mage over there, and they're all trying to eat your face.
As for Bioware being female-friendly, I always thought they were pretty good at it. Any game with Aveline and Isabella together, and neither one being presented as superior, warms the cockles of my cantankerous heart. And Merrill, bless whatever's going on in her weird little head. Anyway, I'm no expert on JRPGs or much of modern Japanese culture, but from what I've seen, I do love Bioware's diverse personalities (and outfits!) a heckuva a lot more than cookie-cutter-female-personality-1.02. No, I haven't forgiven 'Howl's Moving Castle' for what it did to Sophie. I LOVED THAT BOOK AS A KID AND THEY DEFANGED HER AND IT WAS TRAGIC.
*cough* Uh. Sorry. Anyway. Opinions are subjective, but if we're talking about armor, there's going to be some emphasis on hitting things and getting hit, because that's what armor's for. If we were talking about stoves, I imagine we'd talk about cooking.
well you right about not being an expert...
this is as nice as I can be about this. what you like or dislike something has no effect on if it makes sense inn the setting. in fact the moment people in plate didn't die horrible deaths form being cooked alive by dragon fire every complain about armor stopped making sense. ask an old D&D fan about the heat metal spell.
I maintain there's a believability gap. Plate looks protective, even if, logically, it would cook or freeze you alive when it comes into contact with fire or ice spells, so it makes more sense. Chainmail bikini doesn't look like it would protect you, so there's a larger logical leap.
I maintain there's a believability gap. Plate looks protective, even if, logically, it would cook or freeze you alive when it comes into contact with fire or ice spells. Chainmail bikini doesn't look like it would protect you, so there's a larger logical leap.
so Convection Schmonvection. I'm sorry when your battle cry is "REEEAALIIISMMM" you have to at least pretend to care about what it actually is.
so Convection Schmonvection. I'm sorry when your battle cry is "REEEAALIIISMMM" you have to at least pretend to care about what it actually is.
Then think of it this way:
Plate won't protect you from magic any more than flesh will
But at least plate will protect you from everything else.
then why does it exist in the damn setting
Everything else I've seen is basically just going in circles, even this point really. I didn't see anyone argue the point about relative popularity of Japanese vs. Western games in Japan and outside of Japan after my most recent attempt. It exists in one instance and not the other, that is evidence that while a handful of people such as yourself like those settings for what they are, most people don't, and if you want to make a game that appeals to most people, you would make a game with those J-game kinds of aesthetics. I'd agree that sometimes more realistic outfits are attractive, but unfortunately those are mostly in Japanese games also.
It's a group of people like X and Y, and a group of people that like Y. There is still, as far as I can tell, basically one person who only likes X (Remmirath). Additionally, much of the stuff in category X had plenty of sexualized stuff (Annah, Morrigan, Desire Demon, mabe even Sera a bit in DA:I). Rather than argue these points in the abstract, I personally just glance at the evidence and go, yeah, ok. I believe it's personally because of a bunch of nefarious reasons which I've highlighted, but it doesn't even really matter what the exact reason is to me, one is clearly more desirable for people in the aggregate. The continued attempts to lecture and criticize every attempt at supporting a more female/sex friendly atmosphere illustrates that BW is clearly not the hero we're looking for in this respect.
Also no offense but that abstract reason as far as I can tell is that sexualized outfits are ok basically anywhere (Silly western games like Saints Row, all Japanese games, all comics, all comic based games) except DA. It's a very small exception at this point, and I suspect thats largely because all this restraint in one area requires satisfaction in others. Heck, even in DA I'm sure (Desire demons use sex to kill, Morrigan's a mage). It's basically only warriors in a Dragon Age game as far as I can tell.
It's like has anyone ever modded Morrigan's appearance into a more conservative one? Uh huh, didn't think so.
this is as nice as I can be about this. what you like or dislike something has no effect on if it makes sense inn the setting. in fact the moment people in plate didn't die horrible deaths form being cooked alive by dragon fire every complain about armor stopped making sense. ask an old D&D fan about the heat metal spell.
well you right about not being an expert...
Which is why I didn't offer an expert opinion!
I've played a few games, watched friends play some games, passed my modern comparative anth 121 tests, read some manga, watched some anime, and not slept through the news every day. I'm a feudal Japan nerd, though not a terribly impressive one. That's what I've got. And I really hated Howl's Moving Castle, which is not really relevant, but is terribly important to me. I keep thinking I need to rewatch it with an older, more wizened heart, along with I, Robot. But I'm not sure I've got it in me to forgive either....
Going back to dragonfire... If you're wearing plate with leather or wool under it (which you should), it may be marginally more protective, since both are reasonably bad at conducting heat. You do not wear metal on your skin in plate armor, unless you want to experience a whole new level of minor lacerations. Fire is nasty stuff. It's going to mess you up with or without plate. Burns get infected, and they used to be a lot more lethal than they currently are. I guess what I'm saying is that in a mercilessly realistic (except for dragons!) setting, I can't think of a good type of armor to wear if you're going to get flamed.
Maybe wet wool or felt, but that implies some crazy foresight. And you might still want boiled leather or plate so the dragon has to make an effort to chomp you.
this is as nice as I can be about this. what you like or dislike something has no effect on if it makes sense inn the setting. in fact the moment people in plate didn't die horrible deaths form being cooked alive by dragon fire every complain about armor stopped making sense. ask an old D&D fan about the heat metal spell.
Although that is quite amusing it's patently false, the fact that one thing dosn't follow reality or make sense dosn't make it ok to make loads more mistakes. There is a limit on how much a person can suspend disbelief.
If I understand what you're saying, then basicly internal logic dosn't matter, wich I think would make for poor stories/worlds/settings.
It's on the creator to make the most effort, to the extent that they can't just be lazy and come up with the old " wizards did it"(again as much as possible, gameplay usually comes first oc).
so Convection Schmonvection. I'm sorry when your battle cry is "REEEAALIIISMMM" you have to at least pretend to care about what it actually is.
My battle cry isn't "realism", it's "believability". Plate is protective, so I can believe that it protects. Bikinis are not protective, no matter the material, and thus I cannot believe that they protect.
Very simple concept.
By that same token, people wearing less protective armour should be more at risk for damage and injuries.
Meh. I play fantasy RPGs to do fantasy RPGs.
If the game ends up being 'tank-mage in full plate or go home, noob!', I'll take my marbles and go home.
Armor went out of vogue for a long time due to various bits of ranged 'magic'; it was more important to get out of the way or otherwise not be there compared to what armor gave you that folks stopped wearing it.
Armor's made a comeback over the past couple of decades because of other 'magic' in armor construction.
My battle cry isn't "realism", it's "believability". Plate is protective, so I can believe that it protects. Bikinis are not protective, no matter the material, and thus I cannot believe that they protect.
Very simple concept.
Although that is quite amusing it's patently false, the fact that one thing dosn't follow reality or make sense dosn't make it ok to make loads more mistakes. There is a limit on how much a person can suspend disbelief.
If I understand what you're saying, then basicly internal logic dosn't matter, wich I think would make for poor stories/worlds/settings.
It's on the creator to make the most effort, to the extent that they can't just be lazy and come up with the old " wizards did it"(again as much as possible, gameplay usually comes first oc).
Except that's the only reason metal armor works in a setting where people can shoot fire,ice and lightning out of their bum.
If you accept that armor can be magically treated to protect against a warrior being frozen or cooked alive then you can accept materials being treated to be more soft and flexible without losing their protective properties*aka boobplate and boobcup*.
The armor flavours thread on the way yet?!.
[...] Certainly any game or film or illustration actually based in history or depicting history; that sort of armour would obviously be completely ridiculous in a historical RPG, or real-time strategy game, or anything like that [...]
Well even in those scenarios they (the supposed real ones) usually are not for real.
Here is a regular chest plate, a real one (not a ceremonial armor or the like).
Amazing the details and carvings there hehe.
[...] So, basically, I'd say that revealing armour has no place in any setting that is intended to be taken seriously...
Ermm why?, do you think that any kind of "warrior" has to go fully wrapped like a sausage?.
Every armor has a place and a time, if you are a rogue you do not want a noisy and stiff thing, so better leather - preferably in dark colour. A full leather armor for an archer would be also a torture (I've been one and think that it would be a nightmare without some "revealing parts"!).
[...] The more realism the better, I say [...]
I'd say no, it's a fantasy world afterall..., I'd say balance, and some logical designs given the archetype.
Long as leathers and cloth have their place in the lore, as has been the case so far, I can deal.
Leather and cloth can be treated to be incredibly protective.
Except that's the only reason metal armor works in a setting where people can shoot fire,ice and lightning out of their bum.
If you accept that armor can be magically treated to protect against a warrior being frozen or cooked alive then you can accept materials being treated to be more soft and flexible without losing their protective properties*aka boobplate and boobcup*.
See, I still think that plate (with the proper underlayers) offers at least as much protection as bare skin, and as an added bonus, will also offer some protection from that guy who's trying to stick a sword through your face.
That being said, the big goal here is fun. I do tend to enjoy stodgy armor, and I'll freely admit it. The second an outfit of any sort gets too 'busy', my eye starts twitching. That's part of the reason I love simple chainmail with a tabard, aesthetically speaking. It's fun because it looks like it'll be good at its job, and still pretty without losing itself.
Except that's the only reason metal armor works in a setting where people can shoot fire,ice and lightning out of their bum.
If you accept that armor can be magically treated to protect against a warrior being frozen or cooked alive then you can accept materials being treated to be more soft and flexible without losing their protective properties*aka boobplate and boobcup*.
But if you're going to say " well it's magic" then you're stacking contrivances, why not just going to war naked and fight with bratwurst? why not ride shields into battle like some sort of silver surfer ?
Because it's stupid, as is armoring your shoulders but not your gut.
But I was making a more general point about creating worlds where the goal is to induce reality, and every contrivance, coincidence etc diminishes the believability of it all. And if you notice the best fantasy story (imho LOTR) magic is rare and isn't used every 5 min to explain things away.
@OP
If only dragon age had THESE
This video is dedicated to this thread.
You're welcome.
I feel Alistair might look a bit silly in the first one.
Not sure he has the legs for heels.
I think he's got the shoulders for some of those pauldrons, tho. 
Can't see how an elf would wear any of them without cutting their ears off...
Retour en haut