2576 réponses à ce sujet

[Voragoras]

 Can't see how an elf would wear any of them without cutting their ears off...

 

Magic.

[AzureAardvark]

Magic.

Pauldrons ... or ears? o.O

[Muspade]

Pauldrons ... or ears? o.O

The air between the Pauldron's and the ears is magic.

[Remmirath]

Meh.  I play fantasy RPGs to do fantasy RPGs.
If the game ends up being 'tank-mage in full plate or go home, noob!', I'll take my marbles and go home.
 
Armor went out of vogue for a long time due to various bits of ranged 'magic'; it was more important to get out of the way or otherwise not be there compared to what armor gave you that folks stopped wearing it.

Not what I meant to imply there. Tanking shouldn't really be a viable style anyhow, in my opinion. Standing there and taking the hits doesn't make sense as a tactic. One ought to be trying to avoid the hits while you kill the other person as quickly as possible. I'm completely fine with there being varying levels of armour available, and for mages and rogues not having to wear much if anything in the way of armour.

Well even in those scenarios they (the supposed real ones) usually are not for real.

Here is a regular chest plate, a real one (not a ceremonial armor or the like).

Amazing the details and carvings there hehe.

Yes, and...? I know what they look like. I'm not sure what your point here is. In those scenarios, this is the sort of thing one should be seeing.

Ermm why?, do you think that any kind of "warrior" has to go fully wrapped like a sausage?.
Every armor has a place and a time, if you are a rogue you do not want a noisy and stiff thing, so better leather - preferably in dark colour. A full leather armor for an archer would be also a torture (I've been one and think that it would be a nightmare without some "revealing parts"!).

Revealing specifically with the intention of being "sexy", and revealing as opposed to being protective or realistic. No, of course I don't think that every warrior should be wearing the same thing. All I ask is that it is a logical choice for what they are doing. Armour that is supposed to be armour but doesn't protect key areas is not logical.

I'd say no, it's a fantasy world afterall..., I'd say balance, and some logical designs given the archetype.

I'd agree, although I'd say the balance should go fairly heavily towards realism. That's just a matter of preference, though.

[AzureAardvark]

The air between the Pauldron's and the ears is magic.

 

That would be the head ... oic!

[Muspade]

That would be the head ... oic!

 

...There's a head?

[AzureAardvark]

...There's a head?

 

Under the hair.

Hold on, I'll send you directions ...

 

Ok, start at the crotch (it's there, trust me)

Go up until you reach the navel (should look like a hole in the skin, only not very ... hole-y)

You're on the right track; if you hit some kind of lightning tatoo, that's ok, follow that up.

If you find a boob on your left, and on your right, you're on the right track.

If you had to take the tat detour, you're probably under one boob or another; you're going to have to go around the boob (the skin side, not the cloth side) until you've got one boob on the left and one on the right (if you have more than or fewer than two boobs, you're totally lost)

Anyways, keep going up until you get to the choker thing.

Past the choker, there's a neck; head's right on top of that.

Simples!

[eyezonlyii]

I feel Alistair might look a bit silly in the first one.

 

Not sure he has the legs for heels.

He licked a pole...in the winter. He can learn to strut his stuff.

[AzureAardvark]

 

Tanking shouldn't really be a viable style anyhow, in my opinion. 

 

Well, hopefully there will be something between 'tanking' and 'person with agro run in circles while everyone else ranges'

 

 

He licked a pole...in the winter. He can learn to strut his stuff.

 

Phrasing!

[Shadow Fox]

But if you're going to say " well it's magic" then you're stacking contrivances, why not just going to war naked and fight with bratwurst? why not ride shields into battle like some sort of silver surfer ?

Because it's stupid, as is armoring your shoulders but not your gut.

 

But I was making a more general point about creating worlds where the goal is to induce reality, and every contrivance, coincidence etc diminishes the believability of it all. And if you notice the best fantasy story (imho LOTR) magic is rare and isn't used every 5 min to explain things away.

I'd have armor be constructed out of materials that provide insulation against the elements and provide reasonable protection from weapons and arrows*mostly furs,thick cloths and hardened leathers* metal would be kept to the absolute minimum in such a setting.

 

Of course this is if I was specifically going strictly for realism and not including fanciful materials like Silverite.

 

No what's stupid is wearing full suits of metal against guys who can shoot concentrated fire,ice and lightning at you.

 

 

And in Dragon Age and Skyrim and most fantasy games in general magic in particular elemental magic is fairly common place so it makes no sense that armor isn't designed to protect against it.

[Remmirath]

Magic still isn't so common-place in Dragon Age that every soldier can expect to necessarily run into it, and it would be foolish to protect oneself only against magic even if that were the case, since they can also expect to run into a lot of people using weapons against them as well.

Personally, I find the idea of steel being magically treated to resist fire to stretch the bounds of belief a good deal less than using magic to imbue a skimpy suit of armour with the same protection that a full suit would provide. Even if for no other reason, there's cost to be considered. I expect very few people would want to pay the magic armour premium just so that they can show some skin, whereas fire resistance gives a very clear advantage.

Well, hopefully there will be something between 'tanking' and 'person with agro run in circles while everyone else ranges'

Indeed. I'd prefer, between those two, more on the tanking end (as in, not running around) except that I think that really your defense score should be much more important than how many hits you can soak, and that parrying and blocking should be more of a focus. But, that's getting into how the system works, not so much the armour.

[Shadow Fox]

Magic still isn't so common-place in Dragon Age that every soldier can expect to necessarily run into it, and it would be foolish to protect oneself only against magic even if that were the case, since they can also expect to run into a lot of people using weapons against them as well.

Personally, I find the idea of steel being magically treated to resist fire to stretch the bounds of belief a good deal less than using magic to imbue a skimpy suit of armour with the same protection that a full suit would provide. Even if for no other reason, there's cost to be considered. I expect very few people would want to pay the magic armour premium just so that they can show some skin, whereas fire resistance gives a very clear advantage.


Indeed. I'd prefer, between those two, more on the tanking end (as in, not running around) except that I think that really your defense score should be much more important than how many hits you can soak, and that parrying and blocking should be more of a focus. But, that's getting into how the system works, not so much the armour.

 

 

What I'm saying is if metal armor can be enchanted so a warrior won't be cooked alive by concentrated fire and lightning blasts then metal can also be magically treated to be less rigid to conform to a bodies' shape*aka boob plate/cup* without losing it's protective properties.

 

Now this doesn't quite work as an explanation for bikini armor because wearing it you're leaving your vitals exposed to swords and arrows.

 

[Seraphim24]

 I quite honestly don't feel that I have enough information to argue about it. I don't have sales figures for most games

 

Well there it is, and I don't think anyone does, because those facts and hard data supporting the opposing position don't exist basically. I'd actually be interested if someone could find a single western made game, maybe ever in the history of gaming, that Japanese people liked more than western people (adjusted for population and all that).

 

I think I checked the Famitsu top 100, there really wasn't a single western game if I'm not mistaken. The reverse? Not so much...

The fact that the people who like both X and Y like both does not invalidate their opinion that they prefer this game to be X.

 

Your right, and that's not remotely the point I was making the first place. If the group of western gamers only play Japanese games because they resemble western ones and wish they were more that way, that doesn't 'invalidate' the conclusion that Japanese gamers only play Japanese games, and western gamers play both western and Japanese games, or that we conclude Japanese gamers are inherently more universal for that reason, precisely because, as I was indicating Japanese gamers don't even play western games, let alone play a bit but wish they were more like western games. They don't even meet that threshold in the first place.

 

... Nefarious reasons? Isn't that a bit much? Also, I don't know why you insist that sexualised armour is more female friendly. That's just a bizarre viewpoint to me, and I fail to see the connection between sex friendly and sexualised armour. Dragon Age already seems pretty sex friendly to me.

Also, nobody is saying that BioWare is any kind of hero. They're doing better than many gaming companies. That's it.

 

Is it? You assume I'm somehow incapable of being a person who is brazenly offended by most game companies to the point of incomprehensibility, and thus just strongly assaulted by the likes of Bioware. At any rate, I certainly think attractive outfits (technically for either gender, but lets just say women), indicates that the developers/fans at least aren't afraid of attractiveness or that kind of thing.

 

That's the genesis of my confusion over "they're doing better than many gaming companies." Is there any proof for this at all? What percentage of Bioware's gamers are female anyway? Most girls I know prefer the likes of Diablo 3 and stuff like that. Where is the evidence precisely? You have 6 male companions and 3 female, all are heavily armored and covered (well except IB, I guess it's ok for men to show their stuff, not women), 2 of the 3 'advisors' (non-combat) are female, one is just a servile again non-combat type, again waiting on the whims of the overpowering inquisitor lord in his castle. Is this really so much better than rescuing Peach from the castle? At least Peach looks kind of attractive.

 

If I look at the game and see no major differences, that seems to indicate a problem to me.

 

Much of my inspiration for posting is actually trying to understand that. From my objective analysis, BW is basically just as bad as most companies in this department (not historically though, perhaps), but their fans and developers seem utterly convinced otherwise. I simply don't understand that. I guess maybe I could just chalk that up to historical goodwill maybe.

 

As for Morrigan's appearance, there's no need at all to mod it, because it's only her starting outfit. I know that many people don't keep her in it. I certainly didn't. It's already something that is optional. Did many people mod Isabela's appearance? I don't really know, not having followed DA II as closely. I know I installed a mod to equip armour on NPCs as soon as I found one, although that wasn't the only reason (I like being able to change their armour in general).

 

Yeah so, if there's no need to mod it, then that would apply same for all the other outfits? Which are modded? Into something sexy? That's the situation that I'm noticing.

 

I don't even really care anymore, it's a small issue among many, the larger question is which infusing the world with a kind of profound kind of charm that would affect everything from armors, to world, and character design.

 

If anything it seems the opposite, DA:I almost feels like an anthem to hatred of empowered women and sexiness, sorry, just my opinion.

[Sephard]

If anything it seems the opposite, DA:I almost feels like an anthem to hatred of women and sexiness, sorry, just my opinion.

You are basing this off what?

Seeing some screenshots? A bit of a gameplay?

The game is not even out yet, how is it possible to label it an "anthem to hatred of women and sexiness" ... ?

[Seraphim24]

You are basing this off what?

Seeing some screenshots? A bit of a gameplay?

The game is not even out yet, how is it possible to label it an "anthem to hatred of women and sexiness" ... ?

 

Relax, I said it almost feels that way at times. I have no way of knowing for sure what the game will be like without ever actually playing the entire thing. It just seems like every little piece of info they've taken that opportunity to stick it to conventional attractiveness or things like that. Plus, I know there are only 3 female companions and 6 male ones, there is a decent amount of actual information on the game, including advisors and such. There's also brazen bad stereotypes such as Isabella and the crusade to right her flaws from DA2. The evidence is just so bad from a variety of sources.

 

Plus that's also based on just this very forum. If you ask for cute or fun and frilly things people just jump down your throat and criticize you. And this very thread, where displays of cleavage or just any degree of sexuality (it seems to be particularly for females) triggers a whole bunch of criticism.

 

Not very nice, from my point of view. I also just asked for evidence that they ever were empowering in the first place?

[Rykoth]

Well there it is, and I don't think anyone does, because those facts and hard data supporting the opposing position don't exist basically. I'd actually be interested if someone could find a single western made game, maybe ever in the history of gaming, that Japanese people liked more than western people (adjusted for population and all that).

 

I think I checked the Famitsu top 100, there really wasn't a single western game if I'm not mistaken. The reverse? Not so much...

 

Your right, and that's not remotely the point I was making the first place. If the group of western gamers only play Japanese games because they resemble western ones and wish they were more that way, that doesn't 'invalidate' the conclusion that Japanese gamers only play Japanese games, and western gamers play both western and Japanese games, or that we conclude Japanese gamers are inherently more universal for that reason, precisely because, as I was indicating Japanese gamers don't even play western games, let alone play a bit but wish they were more like western games. They don't even meet that threshold in the first place.

 

 

Is it? You assume I'm somehow incapable of being a person who is brazenly offended by most game companies to the point of incomprehensibility, and thus just strongly assaulted by the likes of Bioware. At any rate, I certainly think attractive outfits (technically for either gender, but lets just say women), indicates that the developers/fans at least aren't afraid of attractiveness or that kind of thing.

 

That's the genesis of my confusion over "they're doing better than many gaming companies." Is there any proof for this at all? What percentage of Bioware's gamers are female anyway? Most girls I know prefer the likes of Diablo 3 and stuff like that. Where is the evidence precisely? You have 6 male companions and 3 female, all are heavily armored and covered (well except IB, I guess it's ok for men to show their stuff, not women), 2 of the 3 'advisors' (non-combat) are female, one is just a servile again non-combat type, again waiting on the whims of the overpowering inquisitor lord in his castle. Is this really so much better than rescuing Peach from the castle? At least Peach looks kind of attractive.

 

If I look at the game and see no major differences, that seems to indicate a problem to me.

 

Much of my inspiration for posting is actually trying to understand that. From my objective analysis, BW is basically just as bad as most companies in this department (not historically though, perhaps), but their fans and developers seem utterly convinced otherwise. I simply don't understand that. I guess maybe I could just chalk that up to historical goodwill maybe.

 

 

Yeah so, if there's no need to mod it, then that would apply same for all the other outfits? Which are modded? Into something sexy? That's the situation that I'm noticing.

 

I don't even really care anymore, it's a small issue among many, the larger question is which infusing the world with a kind of profound kind of charm that would affect everything from armors, to world, and character design.

 

If anything it seems the opposite, DA:I almost feels like an anthem to hatred of empowered women and sexiness, sorry, just my opinion.

Dude, you're delusional.

 

Go back and read what people have said.

 

ARMOR. ARMOR. ARMOR. ARMOR.

 

Nobody has said anything about repressing women or being against "sexiness." All people have said is that they want armor to be FREAKING ARMOR, save the "feminine" and "skimpy" for outfits because that's what they would be. CLOTHING. As in, for looks, not for protection. As in... read what people said and stop effin' cherry picking.

 

Good lord.

[Shadow Fox]

You are basing this off what?

Seeing some screenshots? A bit of a gameplay?

The game is not even out yet, how is it possible to label it an "anthem to hatred of women and sexiness" ... ?

Just ignore him trust me you'll be better off.

[Seraphim24]

See? I'm called delusional, because I suggested that this was about repressing women. It seems to me I'm being abused from every angle by people who refuse to accept this kind of criticism. I fail to see why this is a safe place for sex or female-friendliness and all that. Quite obviously it isn't for clothes with god forbid some skin.

 

Do you really think repression can still happen without being clever? This is why I summoned a mountain (ok, a small hill) of evidence that this is what people actually prefer, rather than get bogged down in simple arguments that appeal only to reason, and that people aren't attempting to actually prove with facts.

[Sephard]

See? I'm called delusional, because I suggested that this was about repressing women. It seems to me I'm being abused from every angle by people who refuse to accept this kind of criticism. I fail to see why this is a safe place for sex or female-friendliness and all that.

 

Do you really think repression can still happen without being clever? This is why I summoned a mountain of evidence that this is what people actually prefer, rather than get bogged down in simple arguments.

 

It's ok, no one's perfect.

 

People expect SO much of BioWare, I can hardly even imagine what it would feel like to have that many people demand things of you.

There are those who want realistic armour in a F A N T A S Y game, there are those who want female armour to be realistic, there are those who are not pleased about the amount of female companions, hell people are criticizing BioWare for things I cannot even comprehend.

At NO moment in a BioWare game have I witnessed females being repressed or intentionally acting in a way to obscure "sexiness" - whatever you mean by that.

 

Heck why would you state that Dragon Age: Inquisition - a FANTASY GAME that is not even out yet (!) - is an anthem to hatred of women? Where did you get that from?

I will read carefully what you reply and I will try to understand you, but as of now ... it's really a mystery for me.

[Hadeedak]

All women do not feel repressed by actual armor, and some find it a heckuva a lot more friendly than creepy pushup bra plate.

 

Source: Am female.

[Seraphim24]

People expect SO much of BioWare, I can hardly even imagine what it would feel like to have that many people demand things of you.

There are those who want realistic armour in a F A N T A S Y game, there are those who want female armour to be realistic, there are those who are not pleased about the amount of female companions, hell people are criticizing BioWare for things I cannot even comprehend.

At NO moment in a BioWare game have I witnessed females being repressed or intentionally acting in a way to obscure "sexiness" - whatever you mean by that.

 

Heck why would you state that Dragon Age: Inquisition - a FANTASY GAME that is not even out yet (!) - is an anthem to hatred of women? Where did you get that from?

I will read carefully what you reply and I will try to understand you, but as of now ... it's really a mystery for me.

 

6 > 3? Is that really so incomprehensible? I put it in the first post on this page, about Josephine, about the gender imbalance, and yeah, about clothes, as I've been doing in this thread.

 

A lot of women like clothes, heck a lot of men like clothes (to address the above comment). A lot of people like to look good, in ways that show off their attractiveness. This is common in video games, it's definitely common in reality, heck it's basically universal across reality, across nearly all of human history. It even existed to a degree in DA:O. I take the steadfast assault on it to mean something other than the importance of realism (because there is little evidence to support that conclusion), and sense that it is kind of a hatred directed towards people that like clothes, or show off their attractiveness, or whatever (because evidence hasn't supported the alternative conclusion)

 

I think the insularity is what I'm noticing more than anything....  oh only other people are potentially sexist, since we annointed ourselves as the harbingers of justice, we can't ourselves be sexist. Sure you can, why not? Maybe you can just characterize it as an anthem of hatred to superficiality (and which generally speaking you find women more prone to care about in games).

[Hadeedak]

Well, speaking of being sexist, I'm now pretty sure Kefka is a dude*, since most gals I know seem to dress for more than just male enjoyment. Not that there's anything wrong with dressing to show off what the Maker gave you, but there's a time and a place.

 

That time is not when people are going to shoot arrows at you.

 

Even the girliest girls I know put on parkas when there's a blizzard outside. They may be pink parkas, but they're huge and floofy and warm.

 

*The joke here being that I'm the one being sexist. A bit. Against dudes. I dunno. I'm a bit drunk, I think.

[Shadow Fox]

Holding up Tera Online esque outfits a symbol of female empowerment and saying BioWare is actually a woman hating monster for not including such armor is pretty delusional.
 

"What people actually prefer", as in, people in Japan.

You once dismissed Westerners' diminished interest in JRPGs as racism, if so do you really think it only applies one-way? Sure a lot of them think Western games are **** for Reasons...



Sometimes those reasons are pretty ****** stupid.

Japanese ME fan art?

 

Oh Faith what have they done to you?

[Seraphim24]

Holding up Tera Online esque outfits a symbol of female empowerment and saying BioWare is actually a woman hating monster for not including such armor is pretty delusional.
 

 

Why? Aion was pretty great.. sunk a lot of hours in that game, even though the game itself was pretty bad. Plus I'm sure there is a good amount of evidence girls actually play that game, as opposed to Bioware ones.

 

Mirror's edge was a pretty cool game, are you saying Japanese people didn't play it even though it appealed aesthetically? Well ME is one of the few western games I liked recently, I wouldn't say it was perfect though. I'd be much more inclined to believe they didn't play Mirror's Edge because of the gameplay though, such as with Miyamoto's comment that Japanese people don't really like action games because of the difficulty.

 

If I'm being really picky I'd say the aesthetics weren't quite that early FF level though.

 

I'm sure plenty are quite capable of rejecting things out of hand that they would otherwise like though, Japanese and otherwise, but assuming equal degrees of racism that would cancel out and you still have the disparity in games purchased.

 

I'm actually kind of annoyed at the possibility of sounding like I believe in Japanese superiority at the extent of everything else, but that's because western game companies (including Bioware) are clearly grappeling with and drowning in issues of sex, representation, outfits, attractiveness, etc.