2576 réponses à ce sujet

[hellbiter88]

 

looking at you kefka112

[Ryzaki]

WOW....metal nu-bras

 

Yeah you'd think that would chafe like hell.

 

I don't even like bras with wires. I don't even want to know how that **** would feel.

[Puppy Love]

ARMOR. ARMOR. ARMOR. ARMOR.

 

Nobody has said anything about repressing women or being against "sexiness." All people have said is that they want armor to be FREAKING ARMOR, save the "feminine" and "skimpy" for outfits because that's what they would be. CLOTHING. As in, for looks, not for protection. As in... read what people said and stop effin' cherry picking.

 

Good lord.

Hey now "Feminine" and "Skimpy" are not the same thing, am getting tired of them being lumped together.  Armor with all the different decorations, tabards, skirts, cloths, ties, embroidery, and other such designs it has, is perfectly capable of being one hundred percent as protective as any other armor while demonstrating femininely girly traits.  I've been fighting too damn hard to get "feminine" distanced from being glued to "skimpy" to have you going and trying to glue it back on.

[Hadeedak]

This thread needs to stop being funny and eating my likes.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Yeah you'd think that would chafe like hell.

 

I don't even like bras with wires. I don't even want to know how that **** would feel.

 

Yes, but you don't understand. She will have males drooling all over her, so she's empowered and stuff and anyone who thinks this is a terrible outfit for battle is a Nazi prude.

 

Anyway, this thread must have gone full circle half a dozen time now, so I'll just stop posting and say this: from all the videos we saw, Bioware seems to have their feet firmly planted in the ''fantasy, but still sensible'' territory, which pleases me, and I'm happily going to cover my warriors in plate, my rogues in mail/scales/something and my mages in longcoats or the like because I love those looks. That is all.

[Joe-Poe]

As far as Sexy or Awesome armor why can't we have both.....

[hellbiter88]

As far as Sexy or Awesome armor why can't we have both.....

 

 

Hawke agrees

[hellbiter88]

Bioware seems to have their feet firmly planted in the ''fantasy, but still sensible'' territory, which pleases me...

 

 

Go forth. And slay mightily.

[Seraphim24]

All that is good and well, except I'm not sure why you're tying it with empowerment then?

Maybe western games in general could stand to be a little less "omg grimdark serious look at my stubble" (which is a verrrry broad generalization with plenty of exceptions), so I guess we're going back to the masculinity and femininity discussion again and saying those games are male oriented and silly games are more female friendly? Well, I already know better than to try to convince you out of that mindset, but I still disagree. If you want to hold up skimpy armor as not being a problem in the context of silly games where it doesn't really matter, I can swallow that (surprisingly), but it doesn't follow that games with a more serious art style or serious quest themes are anti-woman by some bizarre corollary. (what should we call that, the Kefka Corollary?)

I'd like to think I'm open-minded and that there are multiple ways to not be offensive, holding up one way and condemning all the others seems misguided.

 

I don't think super serious and super frilly are inconsistent at all. The fact that people struggle with it is evidence to me that it is tantalizing in one way or another. At the very least, it would provoke a strong reaction, in your case bad, but I would think in a few instances good. Good because it breaks the mold, goes beyond expectations, and that's more than most games can say. Why can't someone like Cassandra be an extremely devoted and also have great style? There's no need for these limitations as far as I'm concerned,

 

I think Zelda was originally that way, at least in the 2D world. There was no denying that Link had style, and Zelda also, in her slightly more feminine way, but the setting was pretty serious, the kingdom was overtaken by a manaic sorceror who mind-controlled everyone into being his slave. I'm pretty sure the Fairies were often pretty over the top hot even in the 2d world if I'm not mistaken.

 

I'm sick of having to only play Demon Souls or DA for my intense, grinding combat, and JRPGs for the awesome aesthetics and outfits. The first game company that puts two and two together is a millionaire IMO. Personally I guess I find it a bit strange that as someone who likes aspects of both, I also have no real qualms about combing them, whereas everyone else who likes both seems to feel they need to be divided.

 

It seems increasingly apparent though that I'm the only one who feels that way though, everyone else is satisfied with these discrete divisions for now.

[Remmirath]

Why? Aion was pretty great.. sunk a lot of hours in that game, even though the game itself was pretty bad. Plus I'm sure there is a good amount of evidence girls actually play that game, as opposed to Bioware ones.

What sort of evidence do you need? Aren't the people posting on the forum enough? It stands to reason that your friends are likely to like similar games to yourself, regardless of gender. I personally know more men who like JRPGs and MMORPGs than women, and a roughly equal number of women and men who like BioWare games. Doesn't mean much, though, except that those are the people I know.
 

I'm actually kind of annoyed at the possibility of sounding like I believe in Japanese superiority at the extent of everything else, but that's because western game companies (including Bioware) are clearly grappeling with and drowning in issues of sex, representation, outfits, attractiveness, etc.

You needn't worry, then; you're not. You have at times given the impression that you care primarily about sex and sexual attractiveness in any given form of entertainment, though, so if that's of concern to you then you may want to worry about that instead.
 

Then you have the girls here in south Georgia who take the Kefka route and throw a fur lined parka over some daisy dukes and ugh boots in 30° weather and call it a day.

Then complain that they're cold.

Heh, yeah. I live in a northern university town, and we get some of those every year. They usually boomerang around and dress like they're in the middle of the arctic or preparing for the next ice age the moment it drops below zero or there's a snowstorm. It's kind of interesting to watch.

To be fair, I usually stagger around like I'm about to die while wearing jeans and a sleeveless shirt and drinking water constantly whenever I go down south, and that's probably pretty funny also.
 

I agree with that, Aion is far from perfect. The thing is though there were also lots of quests in that game that were just silly and charming, guys and girls that wanted to talk to each other but we're too far away or too shy or something. Silly, fun stuff.

Both DA:O and DA II had a quest almost exactly as you describe, as well as a few other quests that I would consider to be mostly in the "just for fun" category.
 

The easiest way to divide it up for me has always been gameplay and aesthetics. I prefer video games, adventuring, entering a dungeon, finding treasure, whatever. I don't like VNs particularly. I think this is a difficulty issue for Japanese players and an aesthetic things for western ones.
 
The problem I see is that there are still Japanese games that are decently gamey, but I don't see any western games that are decently fluffy and nice.

That makes sense. I agree that there should be such a game, or more than one. It is clearly a niche that is not currently filled, and some people would like it. I wouldn't, almost certainly, but that's cool. I wouldn't have to play it. In fact, if this was all you were arguing for, I'd have no issue at all with your stance, and wouldn't even disagree with it. The more RPGs, the merrier, I say -- gives everyone more things to choose from. I would love to see a greater variety of RPGs of all kinds, even ones that I'm not particularly interested in.

I don't agree that this game should be like that, though, or that not being (as you put it) fluffy and nice makes a game worse, or even that there are already enough non-fluffy RPGs out there.

In fact, I even agree that, within this game, there should be the ability to make your own character as fluffy as you like. I know a few people (most of them male, in fact) who would be happy if they could make fluffier male characters as well as female characters. If they can make their fluffy characters, and I can make my not-at-all fluffy characters, regardless of gender, I say all is good. Note that this is not the same thing as revealing armour, which in fact I also think one should be able to choose for one's own character if one so wishes, but shouldn't be a general part of the setting. I'm fine with people putting implausible armour on their own characters if they want, I'm just not fine with it showing up all over the place in the game in general. The one doesn't affect me at all, the other does.

[Han Shot First]

this is as nice as I can be about this. what you like or dislike something has no effect on if it makes sense inn the setting. in fact the moment people in plate didn't die horrible deaths form being cooked alive by dragon fire every complain about armor stopped making sense. ask an old D&D fan about the heat metal spell.

 

Plate and mail armor that covers the vitals still makes sense in a setting populated by dragons, because dragons are not the most commonly encountered foe. Even if armor doesn't protect against dragon fire it does protect against being gutted by a sword or having your lung pierced by an arrow.

 

A real word comparison: The kevlar helmets and flak jackets worn by modern military personnel wouldn't protect them from flamethrowers. Does that mean they should be going into battle without them?

[RevilFox]

I've been trying to figure out why I can't get through any of Kefka's longer posts, but have no trouble with other posters. I think it's the number of commas. It's unfortunate, because based on the reactions to these posts I think I'd like to disagree with someone involved in that conversation. I had a similar problem with the Twilight series. Maybe I'm allergic to commas?

[hellbiter88]

I've been trying to figure out why I can't get through any of Kefka's longer posts, but have no trouble with other posters. I think it's the number of commas. It's unfortunate, because based on the reactions to these posts I think I'd like to disagree with someone involved in that conversation. I had a similar problem with the Twilight series. Maybe I'm allergic to commas?

 

 

[GrinningRogue]

Kefka's posts feel like Blood Wound spell to me.

[Finnn62]

I'm just still trying to get over how subjectivity doesn't exist in Kefka-land. I'd be perfectly fine with the option for outfits Kefka finds attractive, but… ah, forget it.

 

Why can't someone like Cassandra be an extremely devoted and also have great style?

So… Basically, Vivienne? Someone determined, but also "in fashion". Anyways, I like Cassandra's style. 

[RevilFox]

I'm just still trying to get over how subjectivity doesn't exist in Kefka-land. I'd be perfectly fine with the option for outfits Kefka finds attractive, but… ah, forget it.

 

 

From what I can gather, subjectivity exists, it just doesn't apply to what is and isn't "sexy". 

[hellbiter88]

I get "upping the game rating" but honestly, we should just be able to run around naked if we want to. Bare forest freedom, that's what I'm advocating.

 

 

 

 

What are YOU lookin' at cassandra?

[Finnn62]

From what I can gather, subjectivity exists, it just doesn't apply to what is and isn't "sexy". 

From what I've gathered, anyone who sees what's attractive as subjective just isn't smart enough or "attractive" enough to understand the "objective" version… apparently

[puppyofwar]

Yeah you'd think that would chafe like hell.

 

I don't even like bras with wires. I don't even want to know how that **** would feel.

I feel your pain sister. 

 

 

Go forth. And slay mightily.

Arghhhh!

You DO NOT put metal directly on skin! Especially with form-fitting design like that!

Chafing!

 

I'm just still trying to get over how subjectivity doesn't exist in Kefka-land. I'd be perfectly fine with the option for outfits Kefka finds attractive, but… ah, forget it.

 

I won't bother.

He keep harping the virtue of "Japaneses gaming aesthetic" as if there is a universal style for all Japanese game when in reality it was just diverse as in the west. And in recent years there too have been more discussion about the  merit of gratuitous sexualization and fanservice.

 He cherry picks his facts and basically just repeat the same stuff over and over again.

[hellbiter88]

 

Arghhhh!

You DO NOT put metal directly on skin! Especially with form-fitting design like that!

Chafing!

 

nonsense she has fur in all the right places

[puppyofwar]

nonsense she has fur in all the right places

....welp, my mind just took a dive int the gutters

[Seraphim24]

What sort of evidence do you need? Aren't the people posting on the forum enough? It stands to reason that your friends are likely to like similar games to yourself, regardless of gender. I personally know more men who like JRPGs and MMORPGs than women, and a roughly equal number of women and men who like BioWare games. Doesn't mean much, though, except that those are the people I know.

 

I'd say statistics like the ones I cited regarding Japanese vs. non-Japanese games. This is all anecdotal. 

 

Both DA:O and DA II had a quest almost exactly as you describe, as well as a few other quests that I would consider to be mostly in the "just for fun" category.

 

a quest huh? I'm overwhelmed, Aion had quests like that in every zone it seemed. I think I already said DA:O did a better job of most things at any rate (such as the few extra quests you mentioned), they kept up that kind of vibe at least for about half the game before it deteriorated into a slaughter fest of dark spawn. This is mainly directed towards the DA2 (and seemingly up and coming DA:I) aesthetics. 

 

Have you gotten to the Falcom games yet? The Ys games are intense as hell but they have a JRPG aesthetic since, you know, they are JRPGs. Well, Japanese Action-RPGs at least.

 

Yeah they're like hotline Miami in JRPG format, it's pretty cool. I was thinking of getting a Vita solely for Celceta. 

 

That makes sense. I agree that there should be such a game, or more than one. It is clearly a niche that is not currently filled, and some people would like it. I wouldn't, almost certainly, but that's cool. I wouldn't have to play it. In fact, if this was all you were arguing for, I'd have no issue at all with your stance, and wouldn't even disagree with it. The more RPGs, the merrier, I say -- gives everyone more things to choose from. I would love to see a greater variety of RPGs of all kinds, even ones that I'm not particularly interested in.

I don't agree that this game should be like that, though, or that not being (as you put it) fluffy and nice makes a game worse, or even that there are already enough non-fluffy RPGs out there.

In fact, I even agree that, within this game, there should be the ability to make your own character as fluffy as you like. I know a few people (most of them male, in fact) who would be happy if they could make fluffier male characters as well as female characters. If they can make their fluffy characters, and I can make my not-at-all fluffy characters, regardless of gender, I say all is good. Note that this is not the same thing as revealing armour, which in fact I also think one should be able to choose for one's own character if one so wishes, but shouldn't be a general part of the setting. I'm fine with people putting implausible armour on their own characters if they want, I'm just not fine with it showing up all over the place in the game in general. The one doesn't affect me at all, the other does.

 

That was a lot of fluffy in the last paragraph, are you sure you don't have an inner cute person that craves to be released?

 

All in all I can say I agree with this generalized notion that everyone should have what they want, sure, isn't that ideal. I can find games that work, I'm sure. I think it's nice that you like the game the way it is. However, while you are extremely diplomatic towards people's preferences,  you still personally find revealing outfits to be bad game design in this instance, whereas I think it would be a good thing. 

 

Realistically speaking, I'll play my games and you'll play yours. However, I think it has been somewhat fascinating to use the weapons of sexual repression and under-representation paradoxically against Bioware. I'm not doing it for spite, I just actually think they apply here. Was D&D really so serious all the time? The Drow were almost always under-dressed if I'm not mistaken, Planescape, Forgotten Realms, Dark Sun, Ravenloft. Just look at Imoen in BG1, cleavage all over the place, because she's a saucy rogue, it's an adventure, it was the spirit of adventure, not realism. Superficial men and women find that much more appealing than the Cassandra diligent armored brigade. The few things that aren't afraid to channel themes of realism and sensuality receive places in the pantheon.