2576 réponses à ce sujet

[Joe-Poe]

What's the difference between America and yoghurt?

Spoiler

Leave yoghurt for 200 years and it'll develop a culture

 

 

But yeah, those images look great. I will say though, when I used "Japanese aesthetic" earlier with reference to Kefka, I was more referring to the aesthetic prevalent in Japanese games, particularly RPGs, which often has little to do with actual Japanese culture and historical aesthetics and is, in the case of female outfits, little more than fanservice aimed at titliating male gamers. It's such a pity when there is so much great looking source material to work with as in those pictures that things end up the way they do.

The top pic meh too fancy and looks like a dress....Now the second pic is awesome and sexy.

[PhroXenGold]

Really man? Not cool. I would say America has the best culture of any place on earth, tbh, google "american literature" for reference. Plus we saved the world from communism, so your welcome. 

 

I'll put it this way: I'm half American, half British and the latter peoples' tendancy for self-depreciation has definitely infected my sense of humour.

[AzureAardvark]

The main issue with armor is that it looks good in setting, fits the setting, and gives the impression of doing it's job.  Beyond that, let's let the developers draw their inspiration from whatever culture they like and not force weird arbitrary restrictions on them unless we're willing to not be hypocrites while doing so.  Arguing everyone's armor should have the muted color palette of Fereldan is as silly as arguing no one should wear full plate.

 

Ultimate point is, people keep saying Dragon Age has an art style in it's armor already, when it also has multiple cultures, some we've barely seen, and references to the examples we've seen not being shared by the rest of Thedus, and specifically the muted colors of Fereldan has been mentioned as a part of that difference, several times, to the point of practically being a running gag.

 

Thank you.

 

Setting is most important.  One wouldn't expect, say, Hyperborean styles in something reaching for a Renaissance flavor and vice versa.

 

DA is a little ... schizophrenic in that respect.

DA2 Qunari, for instance, look like they belong in the former, Orlesians more in the later, and the rest of the world somewhere in between.  

 

I can't help that a lot of this debate is caused by a 'there can be no possible chance permitted for a chain mail bikini to exist; crush all dissent by whatever means necessary!' attitude on the part of certain posters.  Everything must be boiled down to a proper degree of Purity, and if we have to fudge the history a bit to make sure Evil is Defeated ... well then, greater good and all that.

 

Off the top of my head, I can't think of a single Bioware game that has a 'chain mail bikini' of any flavor in it; going to go out on a limb and say DA:I is probably 'safe', too. 

[xkg]

Plus we saved the world from communism, so your welcome. 

 

Hah, we did that first, maybe not the entire world but for sure the Europe. Shame that didn't save us from becoming one of "them" later.

http://web.archive.o...-War/spw_3.html

 

But not many remember/know about that today. 

 

Nevermind that, that's not the right place to discuss the politics.

 

So carry on guys with awesome ideas about the armors.

[Ieldra]

That I can agree with.  As for the brightly colored environment, not sure what you mean.

So for you the green of the trees wasn't too bright in some of the videos? And the sky too blue, and the desert too yellow? In bright light, it was almost like being in a Pixar film. Granted, sometimes landscapes really look more colorful than you'd expect, but this didn't come across as convincing. The PC gameplay video was ok though. Maybe they made some adjustments.

[Puppy Love]

So for you the green of the trees wasn't too bright in some of the videos? And the sky too blue, and the desert too yellow? In bright light, it was almost like being in a Pixar film. Granted, sometimes landscapes really look more colorful than you'd expect, but this didn't come across as convincing. The PC gameplay video was ok though. Maybe they made some adjustments.

Eh, to a degree, we had less pollution then, less smog, ect, and supposedly plants were healthier, the skies were clearer, and unlike today the stars were much more vibrant as a result as well.  So it doesn't bother me that much.

[Ieldra]

I can't help that a lot of this debate is caused by a 'there can be no possible chance permitted for a chain mail bikini to exist; crush all dissent by whatever means necessary!' attitude on the part of certain posters.  Everything must be boiled down to a proper degree of Purity, and if we have to fudge the history a bit to make sure Evil is Defeated ... well then, greater good and all that.

The debate, if I interpret the first page correctly, was caused by the desire of the OP to have the integrity of the setting compromised by adding revealing armor.

 

We aren't in the Conan universe, where I'm presently playing a game of "Beasts and Barbarians" and where characters can have a perk which gives you +4 to toughness if you wear a fur bikini. We're all having great fun, and nobody complains about such things, but nobody pretends this to be a serious story either. In Dragon Age, that would be ridiculously out of place.

[AzureAardvark]

We aren't in the Conan universe

 

I thought I pointed that out, and the Qunari were a little jarring.

Apologies if I was unclear.

[Ieldra]

It seems we are in agreement then. Sorry for coming across as aggressive.

[AzureAardvark]

It seems we are in agreement then. 

 

We agree to a point ... but only to a point.

 

I disagree, as you seem to imply, that the Hyperborean milieu is inherently 'not serious'; the milieu is more than the book cover.  It is, however, a *different* milieu.

 

I don't find Isabella's armor in DA2 particularly out of place in the setting, though it breaks every single one of the 'rules of armor' various people have put forth and has been specifically commented on in this thread.

 

I think there will be a 'chest hair' armor option for Verric, and that at least one of Iron Bull's armors (as a 'tank') will be a kilt + cross belts (hey, if you got it, flaunt it). And this is fine within the setting.

 

And I agree with Puppy Love that 'impractical' armor designs and adornments fit the setting well.

 

One of the changes in DA:I, as I understand it, is that all armor types will be available for all classes in some fashion; hopefully we can all find skins that fit our idea of the setting.  My mages shall have pants (though that kilt thing Morrigan was wearing in DA:O looked kind of clever to me), my rogues shall have leathers, and the pauldrons on my tanks shall not reach their ears.

[Voragoras]

I'd say statistics like the ones I cited regarding Japanese vs. non-Japanese games. This is all anecdotal.

 

You mean the statistics that proved you wrong, or...?

[9TailsFox]

The debate, if I interpret the first page correctly, was caused by the desire of the OP to have the integrity of the setting compromised by adding revealing armor.

 

We aren't in the Conan universe, where I'm presently playing a game of "Beasts and Barbarians" and where characters can have a perk which gives you +4 to toughness if you wear a fur bikini. We're all having great fun, and nobody complains about such things, but nobody pretends this to be a serious story either. In Dragon Age, that would be ridiculously out of place.

What? We have barbarians in DA. We even have to deal with them in DA:I.

[Nattfare]

Hah, we did that first, maybe not the entire world but for sure the Europe. Shame that didn't save us from becoming one of "them" later.

http://web.archive.o...-War/spw_3.html

 

But not many remember/know about that today. 

 

Nevermind that, that's not the right place to discuss the politics.

 

So carry on guys with awesome ideas about the armors.

 

 

 

Yeah, the rest of Europe really showed Poland how grateful they were to them in September 19 years later... and then again when that war was over.

Can't even remember the Soviet-Polish being mentioned in the history classes where I come from.

[hellbiter88]

Plus we saved the world from communism, so your welcome. 

 

 

China?

[Voragoras]

As an aside on the Communism front, it's more that the USSR defeated itself, crumbling under the bribes for the Soviet satellite states and the increasing number of resistances in them, as well as an imbalanced budget limited by an unsustainable economic and political model.

 

Outside factors are important, of course, but I wouldn't say America was the driving factor.

[Cyonan]

Apparently this thread is now about communism, of which I find it hilarious that people think the world needed to be "saved" from it.

 

What? We have barbarians in DA. We even have to deal with them in DA:I.

 

 

That kind of outfit can work for a female character as a skimpy one, but personally I just hope that the character model itself makes them look like a badass barbarian rather than a stripper wielding oversized weapons like so often happens.

[AzureAardvark]

wielding oversized weapons 

 

Let's get rid of those while we're at it.

[xkg]

Apparently this thread is now about communism

 
Yeah, I feel somehow guilty for that. 
 
Soooooo.... Back to the armor thing, and to change the tone of this thread
 

Spoiler

 

source : http://www.dorkly.co.../rpg-lady-armor

[Voragoras]

If America wasn't standing off with them they would most definitely have been the world power, and yeah communism would have spread everywhere. Look at this  https://medium.com/w...ed-1ecd1db17ff2 The military power of the Soviet union was FAR greater then anything other then Americas. We outspent them, and prevented them from expanding until they collapsed. 

 

It fails to mention the substantial resistance within the majority of Eastern European countries, such as the Polish Solidarity movement and the Hungarian Uprising of 1956, and the occupation of the Soviet army in putting down similar uprisings across their territory. This is also without considering the numerous proxy wars fought across the world through exploiting ideological conflicts in unstable countries, like Vietnam, as well as the disaster of the Bay of Pigs, both of which had been major embarrassing losses for America.

 

That link has far too simplistic a view, and one that ignores significant internal aspects that had been the priority of the Soviet union for the majority of the duration of the Cold War. It is also worth noting that at no point did they attempt to officially expand their territory beyond their Eastern Europe states - only install favourable regimes. Which they succeeded at doing in equal measure to America.

 

FINAL POST ON THE MATTER. (Sorry, I'm a history buff.)

[Seraphim24]

Kefka, if I can ask, what is that you don't like about Josephine? It's the fact that unlike Cullen and Leliana she can't fight?
Also, advisors will have a multi-region (well, it was confirmed for Cullen, but I don't think Leliana Or Josephine won't have them) arc in the game, so They won't stay in Skyhold forever.

 

She is clearly designated as a non-combatant, and I'm sure this affects her personality and characterization in ways that I find unattractive. I find the fact that people seem to like her more because of this disturbing in a game supposedly about liberating women from their roles as teenage eye candy. Give me wildcard Sera anyday.

 

But no instead I'm lectured for being infatuated with teenage eye candy with zero logical support. Myuria from Star Ocean 4 absolutely crushes and devours the likes of DA:I females, and I'm not even saying that's the best game out there. She was a deeply romantic girl who <spoilers> gets married to her lover, loses him in an attack, dedicates her life to vengeance, becomes an extremely powerful mage, discovers the truth of his death, forgives the person involved for the misunderstanding, and so on and so on. And yes you get to actually use her in combat, unlike DA:I characters.

 

This 'eye candy' has 9x the spine of the likes of Josephine. For people who can't get past the fact that she's dressed to impress, it would look like she's just there for teenage titillation, but she struck me as infinitely more interesting in the aggregate than Josephine who judging from the forum has been treated as basically teenage eye candy.

 

Isn't it obvious? The only superficial (well analytically superficial) ones here are the people who look at a revealing outfit and go oh she's just dumb titillating eye candy, and they look at Josephine dressed all regal and supreme and say oh of course she's respectable and powerful. Not to mention the immense proliferation of threads about hair or the female inquisitor (250 pages!) all devoted exclusively towards discussions of physicality.

 

The reason I'm not a part of those threads or discussions is because I just get my desire out of the way, I want to see hot. That way, I don't have to resort to furtively getting my glimpses of flesh in freaking internet discussion forums under the guise of discussing important subject matter themes. Is that really what modern feminism (or whatever we're discussing) really wants to look like?

[Seraphim24]

I still think people are confusing means and ends also, the means of transmitting a theme is to make it internally consistent, but the subject matter of that theme can vary as much or as little as the person desires. I don't see any reason to make the vehicle a limitation on the subject matter.

 

No one is really inherently interested in the theme of realism, well by gosh that's because we can walk outside and get that any day without too much trouble. I suspect this is the same reason people still go to movies, as irritatingly stupid as the subject matter is at least people will respect the attempt to make an internally consistent and cohesive whole.

 

I've watched some anime that made virtually no sense, nothing works, it's a completely haphazard collage of nonsense. At the same time, the message strikes me as infinitely superior to many other things offered in Hollywood movies because they don't feel as sexist/conservative/puritan/whatever.