2576 réponses à ce sujet

[PhroXenGold]

Chrono Trigger,Final Fantasy 6 and Legend of Mana are pretty good.....if you don't mind level grinding. Dragon's Dogma has minimum  story but very detailed CC and solid action gameplay.

 

As for me, I start gaming on Super Famicon with almost exclusively Japanese games for nearly 20 years, than I play Never Winter Nights and never look back.

 

Heh, yeah, if anyone objects to the visual style of JRPGs, then I'd firmly suggest going back to the earlier ones such as those you mentionned. Not only do they, in part due to system limitations, avoid much of the more egregious styling of more recent ones, the stories are much better too.

[Catastrophy]

[...]

 

If I put on armor on my human male inquisitor and it covers him head to toe? I expect it to do the same on a woman. If I put a bare chested armor on a male human inquisitor? I expect it to do the same on a woman. Period. That is what I am saying, that is what my friend said, and that is what countless people on this forum have said. Representation. The fact is, most game developers are men. Do you know what this means?

 

Most of the time in a computer game, when you see that scantily clad female who manages to avoid injury? It's because a man made that character. It's because he made what is attractive to him.

 

[...]

 

I'm sure there are lots of artists of both gender working in the industriy. And they will create whatever the company thinks sells best. Now, if the company feels it has a sizeable female customer base, we can expect to have decent armour on all characters. If the company thinks it sells to juvenile men, we'll get inverse gender armouring.

[ForgottenWarrior]

Yeah, regardless of my opinion on this - DA never had a "sexy" and non-functional armors.

Well, i'm not counting Isabela as she doesn't wear armor but a commonly used outfit. Which isn't that crazy "sexy" btw.

[The Elder King]

I agree that DA2's companions conformed more closely to a type than I like. At times it was rather silly and made them, indeed, less real. However, I did need to see the whole game to say that. Why would I play a game whose visual style I find unappealing? No doubt there are some good stories and characters in the genre, but I'm pretty sure they have nothing I couldn't find in games with a style I like better. Also, the few I've tried had gameplay aspects I simply hated - lots of button-mashing and prescribed move sequences to win battles, the very definition of "no fun". That was a few years ago though, so if you'd point one out to me that doesn't have such gameplay and tells a good story with interesting characters, I might try it just to expand my horizon.

Other then the ones mentioned already, the Persona series, particulary P3 and P4.

[Lilaeth]

@kefka112 - yes, I mod Morrigan's outfit to something a bit more protective.  OK, I'm straight and female, so the 'sexiness' of female toons is irrelevant to me, at least so far as enjoyment of a game's story is concerned.  I go for 'better protection' with my armour(s), every time.  I doubt Joan of Arc ran around in a chainmail bikini.  The game is set in a time that mostly equates to our Middle Ages - anyone who has even a basic knowledge of those times will tell you that women were covered up, not running around looking like applicants for the Playboy mansion! 

 

The bottom line is that it is irksome (to say the least!) that in this day and age there is still a culture of  'get yer t i t s out' involved in gaming, and armour/costume is such an obvious example of it that it's no surprise that it can be controversial.  Especially when we know that it's male games designers that are putting female toons in outfits that reflect their own fantasies of how women (in game or maybe even out of) should dress to please them.  Provision of w a n k material is all very well, but I don't think a game is the right place for it.  Most women don't dress to please men IRL.  Why should they have to in games? Like it or not, the number of female gamers is increasing, so the devs should be taking that into account, or they risk losing business.  Bioware's games are less female unfriendly than many, but they could still do better. 

 

I don't have my male toons running around skyclad/in a thong (and I don't see any games where they do by default!), so why should I accept having female toons in skimpy/sexy stuff as a default?  If it's an option for those who want to dress toons like that, fair enough.  But it should not be the default/starting position. 

 

Edit:  decent article, with good references, and a picture of what Joan of Arc's armour might have looked like.  Some of the comments are quite thoughtful too, especially on the 'boob plates' that would basically lead to your almost instant death!    http://io9.com/what-...wear-1502779338

[Kharn-ivor]

I think this just kind of shows a failure to understand a lot of potential female (or male) gamers though. They care about what stuff looks like, it is absolutely essential, period. The art direction is just terrible, in every sense of the word, beyond just character armors, really. Stuff has to look good.

1- You don't talk for everybody so don't tell us what people like or not. " They care about what stuff looks like " thats nonsense, people constantly complain that games focus too much on graphics and not enough on AI, gameplay and story.

 

2-"The art direction is just terrible, in every sense of the word, beyond just character armors, really. Stuff has to look good."

BS You're talking out your arse, a common joke at Uni was " im making pretty pictures" because making art is about so much more than that. Maybe you should attend some art/design classes. If you can't tell where something is well designed even if you don't like the style then you've got some work to do.

[Ieldra]

Edit:  decent article, with good references, and a picture of what Joan of Arc's armour might have looked like.  Some of the comments are quite thoughtful too, especially on the 'boob plates' that would basically lead to your almost instant death!    http://io9.com/what-...wear-1502779338

Thanks for the link. That was a very interesting read. And LOL about the "boob plate". I never considered that.

[Lilaeth]

Thanks for the link. That was a very interesting read. And LOL about the "boob plate". I never considered that.

Neither did I! 

[PhroXenGold]

Thanks for the link. That was a very interesting read. And LOL about the "boob plate". I never considered that.

 

To be fair, from what I've read elsewhere, the "boob plate" isn't quite as bad as that site presents - claims like "falling on it could kill you" are somewhat exaggerated - but yeah, it's certainly not a good thing to be fighting in in any way shape or form.

 

Speaking of interesting reads about armour, here's a post from another forum I frequent on the subject of flexibility. Given that the old cliche of "plate armour obstructs movement" has cropped up several times in this thread, it's somewhat relevant: http://forums.civfan...2&postcount=138

[Heimdall]

Watched a video of two guys in plate armor awhile back, the thing that struck me most wasn't any lack of mobility, one of them was actually doing combat rolls, but rather how LOUD it was.  They don't get it across in much fantasy media, but those things clink and clank a lot!

[Lilaeth]

There was a programme on TV here recently, where they found a chap with a spinal curvature similar to that of Richard III.  They got him custom-made armour, and then had him learn to fight, joust, etc.  He found it surprisingly easy. 

[SNascimento]

When it comes to female armors, I think the main problem is when they are a version of a male one and change protection/reason for sexiness. I'm sure it has been posted  armors in some RPG that the male version is a super bulky plate armor and the female version is a bikini with maybe greaves and bracelets. That I cannot defend in any way.

But a woman fighting in a bikini like armor in a film like 300 wouldn't be that bad. Everyone seems to be ok with going to war with no clothes.

Jade Empire is a good example about this. Seeing the woman player models in that game might make it seens they are going to sexy over function, but you'll find exactly the same in the male characters. So they want every character to feel light and mobile. I would like the option to wear some of the heavy armor that some characters wear but the game doesn't offer that option and that makes it another dicussion entirely.

My point is that context is important. Context and coherence. And I believe the DA games mostly have it. I say mostly simply because I can't remember it very well to make a reasonable conclusion, but take DA2. Isabella wears... less clothes the Aveline. But that is coherent with both their class, their role on the battlefield and their character.

[dirk5027]

Boy this thread just gets bigger and bigger and all I wanted was a shirtless Dorian to run around with......what a bummer  

[PhroXenGold]

When it comes to female armors, I think the main problem is when they are a version of a male one and change protection/reason for sexiness. I'm sure it has been posted  armors in some RPG that the male version is a super bulky plate armor and the female version is a bikini with maybe greaves and bracelets. That I cannot defend in any way.

 

Well, to be fair, I, and many others, object to the kind of ridiculous armours that men typically wear in the kind of settings where such gender disparities are present almost as much as the womens outfits, and for much the same reasons - they're simply not in any way practical. While the female armours (and I use the term loosely as there isn't much armour) offer very little protection, the male armours in that kind of fanatsy setting, for all their bulk, typically ignore how armour actually works and often would (contrary to properly designed armour) seriously inhibit the wear's ability to fight. Feckin' pauldrons.

[SNascimento]

Well, to be fair, I, and many others, object to the kind of ridiculous armours that men typically wear in the kind of settings where such gender disparities are present almost as much as the womens outfits, and for much the same reasons - they're simply not in any way practical. While the female armours (and I use the term loosely as there isn't much armour) offer very little protection, the male armours in that kind of fanatsy setting, for all their bulk, typically ignore how armour actually works and often would (contrary to properly designed armour) seriously inhibit the wear's ability to fight. Feckin' pauldrons.

Not untrue. I was just thinking on a very generic term as I don't have practical examples in mind for games. I do have one from comic books:





The first in Steppenwolf from Apokolips and the second is Fury which is also from there. 

[Dutchess]

Boy this thread just gets bigger and bigger and all I wanted was a shirtless Dorian to run around with......what a bummer  

 

Gladiator outfits for all!

 

[Heimdall]

Gladiator outfits for all!

 

Ah, yes, combined with highly improbable victories over better equipped soldiers fighting as a unit?  Sounds like a video game

[Dutchess]

Ah, yes, combined with highly improbable victories over better equipped soldiers fighting as a unit?  Sounds like a video game

 

I think they were intimidated by the abs. It made them question their own bodies underneath all their armor. 

[Heimdall]

Well, to be fair, I, and many others, object to the kind of ridiculous armours that men typically wear in the kind of settings where such gender disparities are present almost as much as the womens outfits, and for much the same reasons - they're simply not in any way practical. While the female armours (and I use the term loosely as there isn't much armour) offer very little protection, the male armours in that kind of fanatsy setting, for all their bulk, typically ignore how armour actually works and often would (contrary to properly designed armour) seriously inhibit the wear's ability to fight. Feckin' pauldrons.

I was pretty happy that they got rid of much of that on DA2 armors (Not all, but still)  They got rid of boob armor too as I recall.  Been a long time since I played a warrior though.

[Heimdall]

I think they were intimidated by the abs. It made them question their own bodies underneath all their armor. 

Well, that's why the higher ups had chestplates shaped like chiseled abs, best of both worlds!

[GrinningRogue]

Boy this thread just gets bigger and bigger and all I wanted was a shirtless Dorian to run around with......what a bummer  

How about Dorian in this?

[SNascimento]

Spartacus and his gang had lightsabers disguised as gladius. Not really fair. 

[In Exile]

Well, to be fair, I, and many others, object to the kind of ridiculous armours that men typically wear in the kind of settings where such gender disparities are present almost as much as the womens outfits, and for much the same reasons - they're simply not in any way practical. While the female armours (and I use the term loosely as there isn't much armour) offer very little protection, the male armours in that kind of fanatsy setting, for all their bulk, typically ignore how armour actually works and often would (contrary to properly designed armour) seriously inhibit the wear's ability to fight. Feckin' pauldrons.

 

At least fantasy armour gets rid of the medieval beer gut of plate.

[Medhia_Nox]

Those gladiators... were, um... slaughtered in the end. 

 

Not a good example of "sexy" vs "practical".

[PhroXenGold]

I was pretty happy that they got rid of much of that on DA2 armors (Not all, but still)  They got rid of boob armor too as I recall.  Been a long time since I played a warrior though.

 

DA2 heavy armour was, for the most part pretty good. Some stylisation of course, but nothing really implausible or unbelievable.