2576 réponses à ce sujet

[The Elder King]

I just want to say that those are in no way daggers. I mean, they're about as long as the swords the warriors use.

They're not. The hilt is longer, but the blade is still shorter.

[Heimdall]

They're not. The hilt is longer, but the blade is still shorter.

Still, one of my standing grievances with DA weapons is that the daggers are the size of short swords

[SNascimento]

I meant, 'extremely buff and defined upon the completion of filming'.  And yeah, that scene.  Lotta strength right there, if she even did it for a brief period.

Oh, apologies for my lack of understading skills. And she was in incredible shape in the film no dobut about that! But actors change their body so much that It's scary. 

[AzureAardvark]

Oh, apologies for my lack of understading skills. And she was in incredible shape in the film no dobut about that! But actors change their body so much that It's scary. 

 

Nah, I've a tendency to use slang to the point of me being the only person to understand it.

 

One my personal benchmarks for actors is their ability/willingness to change body types for roles; it doesn't mean one who can't/won't is a bad actor, but it's extra impressive to see someone with the focus and will to actually *do* it.

[Seraphim24]

The problem though is that for the most part and until relatively recently, the vast majority of women in a game were only there for the titillation of the straight male audience, without the equivalent numbers of titillating characters for the straight female audience. And while titillation in and of itself is not a bad thing, most characters portrayed as such don't have the agency you yourself have said you look for in a female character to count as a character. Their sole purpose in games was to be an object (hence "objectification") for the male protagonist and antagonist to conquer/corrupt/capture/rescue. They themselves offer no avenue into the story.

 

And that is the problem. I see it as akin to the issue of minority characters in games: Sure they're there, but there's only ever one type, e.g., the big black "thug" dude, the Asian waif (male or female),  or the "mystical" [indigenous person]. These are contrasted by the fact that a white male protagonist (and antagonist) can be and are depicted in multiple ways with varying nuances.

 

Again this sounds like your problem is with gender equality, or redundant stories that you have seen too many times before, or something, but not with sex, sexuality, or attractive outfits necessarily.

 

None of that is inconsistent with enjoyment of hot outfits, or sex generally, your argument spins objectification as bad because it was the sole purpose of the game, not that it is bad inherently. Which is what I'm saying, leave sex out of all these politics, it's just something that's fun for people. It is not inherently a gender equality issue. No offense but it seems you misunderstood the entire point of my post which was specifically to separate the two.

 

Kefka, imagine the sexiest man you can, half naked, and use briefs instead of boxers. Imagine what ever cloth (or armor) he has is altered to accentuate his chiseled muscles: abs, chest, arm, thighs and maybe ass. Any additional covering will serve the same purpose, to accentuate how sexy his body is, not to protect him.

 

Now, imagine a fantasy world where the men are all like that and the women dress like Hilde from Soul Calibur (reality aside, cos hey, this is fantasy). For added amusement, imagine the men walk in a very sexy way that make girls swoon and the women walk like pedestrians on the streets. Add that the men are completely clean (no mud, Spartacus is dirty) and completely handsome.

 

Now imagine most games are like that. If people don't start complaining how ridiculous it is, I think the world is broken.

 

I'd have no complaints if the 2 genders both wear ridiculously revealing armor: men dress spartacus/300 style, women dress JRPG style.

 

Unfortunately I'm going to have to say your guilty of the exact same problem. Stop associating me with some gender equality issue when I've given you literally no evidence the entire time that this is the case. The last post specifically divided the issue of titillation or sex appeal in costumes with gender equality, and yet both of you now jumped on it to mean the exact opposite of what I said.

 

I've not seen anyone here say sexuality is an undesirable quality in female/male characters. Provided it fits the character and the setting, provocative outfits are fine. Don't pretend however that the oversexualization of female characters hasn't been a problem. It isn't that sex is bad, the issue is usually whether a character exists to be titillation or the character happens to be titillating.
 

They focus on things like the supersexual armor, not because they hate sexuality, but because its impractical for anyone dealing with all those elves, dragons, and explosions to be fighting half naked. They accept those fantastical elements as additions to a world not entirely unlike our own, but they expect those living in it to interact with those fantastical elements in a way that makes sense to them rather than a way that comes off as a blatant attempt to titillate the audience and little else.

 

Your lumping things together here, the realism argument (which I'll just refer you back several pages if you want to know my take on it), and the idea that sex somehow isn't bad but titillation on a character is, you can't separate the two. You can try, obviously, but there's no point. Of course a character's attractive outfit is designed to be sexual in nature. This continual attempt to divide sex and sexuality from the issue of attractive outfits or titillating characters is folly, for they are one and the same issue. That's why I've frequently just said sex and attractive outfits, and sexuality all together. I'm not pretending there's a division here.

 

Which brings me to

 

As I've said before, I have no problem with titillation. If you want to look at scantily clad women, go for it. Hell, I like to, when it's appropriate (i.e. not in the middle of battle in a setting where the mechanics of fighting and armour are roughly the same as our own world...). My problem is when people try to present obvious fanservice as something more. When men - and it is almost inevitably men - claim that characters designed for titillation are "empowered" or "liberating". It's a pathetic attempt to justify the fact that you get turned on by them. If you're so proud of sexuality, just have the freakin' honesty to admit the truth - you want to look at scantily clad women in games because you get a boner from them. There's nothing wrong with that. It's a perfectly natural thing to do. Why are you hiding it behind a steaming pile of BS about empowerment?

 

And, because someone will inevitably jump on it, no, not every case of a woman being dressed in a skimpy outfit automatically exists for the pleasure of men. But in media such as video games (as well as things like comics and more typically male oriented films and TV shows), the vast majority are. That KoA screenshot you were so proud of a dozen or so pages back is such an obvious example. That outfit exists for no purpose other than to titillate male gamers. And it works. Hell, i find it attractive. Utterly inappropriate for anyone going into combat, but I'd love to see women wearing that kind of thing when going about their everyday lives. But they won't wear it. Because that outfit is clearly designed by a man who likes to look at scantily clad women.

 

Should women who wear revealing outfits be discriminated against? Hell no, they should be able to wear what they want. But the vast majority of women don't want to wear outfits like that, because the sole purpose of such an outfit is to objectify them and provide pleasure for men looking at it.

 

Yeah um I've been saying so this entire time, I like the outfits because they are hot. I don't get a boner while I'm playing because it is not strictly speaking that kind of setting, but at least it is also not a strictly realistic setting and so incredibly boring. If it were definitively either, I suspect I would be bored. I'm not pretending sex appeal isn't a part of the picture, because that would be impossible (see above). I'm 100% honest that I like hot things, so honest that I don't pretend to have this fancy division between my "serious settings" and my "playful settings." My joy for such things is universal and transcends mere cultural preference and settings.

 

Also you brazenly insulted Alyn Shir, who is at least a semi-interesting character. Have you played KoA? Have you followed any of her story? No (I'm guessing), you saw her outfit and immediately jumped to the conclusion that her sole purpose was to be a sex object.

 

And even more to the point, why is this an inherently a bad thing? So what, someone is doing something to be sexually attractive? Call the police? This is an actual problem in this day and age? If you are simply bored by it then go your own way and find a very complicated way of expressing interest in sex.

 

If your problem is with excessively simple stories (as I saw many people consider), then your problem is with excessively simple stories, again, not some freaking outfit.

 

And finally, complexity or complex characterization and sex are not remotely mutually exclusive. As far as I can tell, extremely complicated people very often still prefer the pleasures of flesh, or the seductiveness of a certain outfit. It's ok to know Shakespeare and also want to dress like a succubus (or incubus, whatever) on Halloween.

[Hadeedak]

I guess my point of confusion is I just don't find sexy armor particularly fun.

 

Imagine you're building a house with a crew. You're working on the frame. And then one of the crew shows up in lingerie and picks up a nailgun.

 

It's like "Wait, what? You're going to get yourself hurt, dude."

 

It's not exciting. It just looks wrong and stupid, and that's a turnoff in so many ways, which aren't all or even mostly sexy.

[Seraphim24]

Realism again, refer to page 80 or 81.. whatever.. just my opinion.

 

I also noted that certain sexy outfits are pretty freaking ugly. (like Alistair that was some pages ago)

[Hadeedak]

Yeah, that doesn't help. A lot of the sexy outfits are terribly tacky and a mess of random colors and embossing.

[Muspade]

I also noted that certain sexy outfits are pretty freaking ugly. (like Alistair that was some pages ago)

 

I don't recall Alistair being brought up these last twenty pages.

[Hadeedak]

I made a joke about Alistair in one of the skimpy outfits, which I think is what Kefka's referencing.

[Finnn62]

whatever.. just my opinion.

Finally. Well, that's what I was waiting for, folks 

[Seraphim24]

 

Finally. Well, that's what I was waiting for, folks 

 

 

No that applied only to the realism thing, I should of just said I don't really care anymore. I feel how I feel, people are different, the realism thing wasn't going anywhere. Everything else still stands.

 

It's kind of like I almost didn't even care enough to respond to this little comment.

[goishen]

Look man, we can have these utilitarian vs. magical and these male vs female and "what do you find sexy?" debates all damn day long.

 

The only thing I know is, I don't wanna see a guy's junk.  Could be Brad Pitt.  I don't care.  Junk there?  I'm looking the other freaking way.

 

If a female is wearing nothing but nipple clamps and a chain mail thong, how utilitarian is that going to be?  Especially looking at a guy who's decked out in steel armor that's two inches thick and might, just maybe, have a slit for his eyes? 

 

Not very. 

 

Of course, then there's the other side of it.  Who in their right mind would wear full plate two inches thick and be bathed in fire?  Not me, and nobody here would.  So how utilitarian is that?  This is splitting hairs here.  In a magical world like Thedas, yes, you want to wear something that will protect you from the big dragon and fire.

 

Now, to go to the other side, male vs. female and " what do you find sexy?" 

 

Girl's don't find most junk attractive.  Especially on males.  Especially I don't.  Please don't give somebody a pair of daisy dukes that are too short with his junk hanging out.

 

K, can we please stop this debate now?  I mean, what does it take to get through to some guys?  The threat of junk hanging out?

[Finnn62]

No that applied only to the realism thing, I should of just said I don't really care anymore. I feel how I feel, people are different, it wasn't going anywhere. Everything else still stands.

Well, it's as close as we've gotten to an admission of subjectivity. i'm happy enough with it. Seriously, I don't get this "objective" attractiveness thing your spouting. Post the exact same character in multiple different outfits, and I'm fairly certain people will have differing opinions on which looks best. It's not objective. 

[Seraphim24]

Um that's why I only devote one sentence to it, they don't work for me obviously.

 

As to the "what do you find sexy" that's a way more interesting conversation to me personally. I already said a lot of them were very ugly even if they skin. I don't want to see a girls genitalia either, this was only about the level above that, and appealing stuff as well.

 

 

Well, it's as close as we've gotten to an admission of subjectivity. i'm happy enough with it. Seriously, I don't get this "objective" attractiveness thing your spouting. Post the exact same character in multiple different outfits, and I'm fairly certain people will have differing opinions on which looks best. It's not objective. 

 

 

I think it's more when your that desperate to avoid engaging the substantial subject matter I'm not motivated to reply anymore. I believe 100% that such things are objective and I was thinking of searching for more pictures to compare but I can sense most of you have decided what you want in this respect and will lie or do whatever is necessary to make the point different or mischaracterize/out of context whatever.

 

Please, you really think I believe there is any pair of potential images on the entire universe I could post on the planet and everyone wouldn't be against me out of spite or some other reason?

[The Baconer]

I believe 100% that such things are objective and I was thinking of searching for more pictures to compare but I can sense most of you have decided what you want in this respect and will lie or do whatever is necessary to make the point different or mischaracterize/out of context whatever.

 

ha ha, oh wow.

[Voragoras]

ha ha, oh wow.

 

Your Kunkka icon goes really well with this post. Here's a Dota hero I also feel is relevant at the moment.

 

[eyezonlyii]

So are we done here? is it time to clock out?

[Voragoras]

I don't know if I'm ready... We're family at this point. So many likes have gone into this thread.

 

[TheEternalStudent]

I would have to disagree, chisels come to mind ^^

War-Chisels!

Anyways, chisels generally have a hammer smashing into them, and the motion is less slashing than a one-hander.

[Voragoras]

By the way, some fanart I found of Drow Ranger that I appreciated.

 

 

Looks nice but also believable, considering she's a hero that piles her points into agility, imo.

(source)

[Lady Luminous]

Aww guys, don't leave! I just got back from holidays! Now what am I going to post incessantly about? *pout*

[Finnn62]

I think it's more when your that desperate to avoid engaging the substantial subject matter I'm not motivated to reply anymore. I believe 100% that such things are objective and I was thinking of searching for more pictures to compare but I can sense most of you have decided what you want in this respect and will lie or do whatever is necessary to make the point different or mischaracterize/out of context whatever.

 

Please, you really think I believe there is any pair of potential images on the entire universe I could post on the planet and everyone wouldn't be against me out of spite or some other reason?

Well, I 100% believe that attractiveness is subjective. All your arguments are based on the basis of 100% objectivity of outfits (something like, "just have fun and let go and embrace the objectively sexy outfits"), I can't respond beyond, "but that kind of outfit wouldn't even be attractive/sexy or fun to me at all, anyways." to most of your posts. Whether or not you believe I'm lying, I'd be fine if you'd just say "I personally enjoy this kind of outfit; I'd like to see it in a Dragon Age game, in addition to the other available options".  I'm greatly pleased with games providing options. Anyways, this is a kinda pointless line of discussion, as neither you nor I will change our minds. Last thought, I really hope that the arguments against you by others haven't been stressing you out all that much and that you enjoy your future gaming experiences and have a good night 

[aTigerslunch]

I had a long post, but erased it all, I dont see a point in it.

 

Kefka ignores others views/opinions and disclaims that anything he says is just his opinion. 

 

Then cries out we dont like sexy looking clothes for some reason when we said we like sexy clothes.

 

Which the point is armor not clothes, platekini doesnt belong in DA.

 

EDIT: Options are always good to have though.

[Shadow Fox]

If we're talking female Rogue armor I'd like designs like these personally*spoilered for big images*

 

Spoiler

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