166 réponses à ce sujet

[myahele]

You don't really need to be a warden to help the wardens. Its up to the discretion of the knight-commander to send mages to help wardens. Though such things cannot be done willy nilly.

Also, not many people Hero worship wardens in between blights. And it seems like Wardens must tread carefully to prevent political backlash. Its only when there's a full blown blight is when things change.

Also, aren't they affiiliated with the chantry? Whose to say a warden comander will not view a mage as a mere weapon of mass destruction? Or turn in a mage who wants to join to the templars to garner more support and well trained recruits?

There's also people like Avernus. And if Alistair is willimg to let Kirkwall burn then that kinda shows just how harsh warden life is.

[Doominike]

Warden mage, easy, hell if I'll be a prisoner to a bunch of zealots. Plus the 30 years thing isn't necessary, Avernus showed it can be stretched for a few centuries

[Mykel54]

Circle Mage by far.

 

Being a warden is a terrible job that only gets somewhat rewarding if you were worse off before they recruited you. Like Genevieve said in the calling, i would rather be a general in orlais (good salary, family, status, etc.) than a unrecognised butcher of monsters that is only respected once in a century when there is a blight, otherwise you remain no one.

[Kierro Ren]

There's no "no sex" laws in Fereldan Circle, tho it varies circle to circle. Just it's not favored, because it'll likely cause more mage children. Forcing the child to be taken to another Circle. If I'm correct, isn't it said somewhere, Duncan beded a Fereldan mage at one point? I'd say Warden mage personally. Because, as Avernus says in Warden's Keep, being a Warden mage granted him the ability to improve his magic.

[Kierro Ren]

Warden mage, easy, hell if I'll be a prisoner to a bunch of zealots. Plus the 30 years thing isn't necessary, Avernus showed it can be stretched for a few centuries

Well... the whole 30 years isn't a big deal, if you consider real life medieval times. Back then it was average to die 40-50yo. If you lived to be 70 or 80, you were either a wizard, using magic to stay alive. OR. Depending on religious beliefs, you were blessed/cursed by god(s)/demons.

 

So, by this detail, if your warden was 24 (like Moi)  + 30 = 54. 30+30= 60. A good old age back then. So, it wasn't that big of a deal.

[metalfenix]

Probably a mage warden, since I always liked the wardens and they are my personal heroes. But all being said, the taint and the order duty is like a cage itself: The taint could kill you in time, and darkspawn may kill you sooner than the taint.

[Cyrus Amell]

Warden mage, easy, hell if I'll be a prisoner to a bunch of zealots. Plus the 30 years thing isn't necessary, Avernus showed it can be stretched for a few centuries

 

Even the origional deadline wasn't that big of a deal, first time I heard it I thought to myself:

 

"That... doesn't sound so bad actually. My character is in his early 30's (or late 20's) so he would die around his 60's which is pretty acceptable in a medieval setting."

 

Then we meet Avernus and not only has he managed to hold off the Calling but also extend his lifespan to a ridiculous extent. My own mage was willing to drink the concotion Avernus made, so why wouldn't I take the extra step and ask a few pointers from him? The horrible experiments have already been done, cernutries go in fact, why wouldn't I take the chance to maximize the time I have to kill Darkspawn as a kickass Arcane Warrior?

 

So if I hear that offscreen my Grey Warden decided to go on his Calling I will be very dissapointed. Unless he fakes it so he can go off to be with Morrigan, which will be my personal explanation otherwise.

 

On the topic at hand: As a personal choice, the dangers involved not withstanding, I would rather be a Warden than a Circle Mage. The Circle is not all bad, senior mages have a lot of autonomy and can even gain access to numerous avenues of power within the royal courts of the land. A skilled mages can rise far and live a very comfortable life in the Circle. But, as a Warden, you would be constantly challenged with your skills and abilities stretched to the limits helping to fight off darkspawn hords. Bethany Hawke prefered the Circle for the reasons stated (and is quite miserable among the Grey Wardens), but being a Warden sounds far more exhilarting to me!

[Zakhar]

Warden Benefits: free will, ability to practice just about any kind of magic if it assists the Wardens, bad ass armor and heraldry.

Warden Cons: shortened lifespan to at average 30 years post Joining, sterility no kids for you, forced to fight Darkspawn for the rest of your life, all service in the Wardens ends with death, the Calling is a mean person like that.

Circle Pros: Relative safety (yeah I know blah evil templars but if you expect me to believe every templar is an evil rapist kindly shut up), access to most of the magical knowledge in Thedas, free beds and food!

Circle Cons: Templar abuse is sadly common, restrained knowledge, possible tranquility and noe being forced to fight in a rebellion even if you don't want to.

[Cyrus Amell]

Warden Cons: shortened lifespan to at average 30 years post Joining, sterility no kids for you, forced to fight Darkspawn for the rest of your life, all service in the Wardens ends with death, the Calling is a mean person like that. If female, higher chance of being turned into a Broodmother than in a tower.
 

 

Actually no, women can only be turned into a broodmother if they are suscptible to the taint. That sounded bad...

 

Anyways, a Grey Warden is immune because he or she is in essence already a type of darkspawn. If the darkspawn could reproduce among themselves then they would have already, but as it stands there is aboslutely nothing to indicate that a woman who is a Grey Warden is susceptible to such a possibility. You can still die of course, but there really are worse things.

 

Also, the sterility thing is more of a "kinda maybe" - If this was Crusader Kings 2 this would likely be represented in a Grey Warden Trait with a -75% Fertility bonus attached, which is bad enough in the middle ages when there is no way to improve the possibility. Sorta like being a Witcher in that you are a chemically augmented mutant, which has the unintended side-effect of messing up the reproductive process.

[Zakhar]

Actually no, women can only be turned into a broodmother if they are suscptible to the taint. That sounded bad...

Anyways, a Grey Warden is immune because he or she is in essence already a type of darkspawn. If the darkspawn could reproduce among themselves then they would have already, but as it stands there is aboslutely nothing to indicate that a woman who is a Grey Warden is susceptible to such a possibility. You can still die of course, but there really are worse things.

Fair enough! I'll remove that one then.

[Yinello]

I'd prefer to be a Circle Mage and attempt to change the system from inside out. As long as the Circle isn't run by horrendous dictators or overrun by powerhungry Mage spawn, it's possible to make waves. Plus I'm a coward and don't like to risk dying quick or fighting Darkspawn constantly.

[Zakhar]

But to give my own opinion, I'd rather be a Circle Mage and work to fix it. Preferably not with a Rebellion that'll probably make it worse.

[Loyal Tevinter]

I'd pick Circle Mage, living in Tevinter.

[In Exile]

Actually no, women can only be turned into a broodmother if they are suscptible to the taint. That sounded bad...

Anyways, a Grey Warden is immune because he or she is in essence already a type of darkspawn. If the darkspawn could reproduce among themselves then they would have already, but as it stands there is aboslutely nothing to indicate that a woman who is a Grey Warden is susceptible to such a possibility. You can still die of course, but there really are worse things.

Also, the sterility thing is more of a "kinda maybe" - If this was Crusader Kings 2 this would likely be represented in a Grey Warden Trait with a -75% Fertility bonus attached, which is bad enough in the middle ages when there is no way to improve the possibility. Sorta like being a Witcher in that you are a chemically augmented mutant, which has the unintended side-effect of messing up the reproductive process.

GWs aren't darkspawn. They're ghouls.

[Cyrus Amell]

GWs aren't darkspawn. They're ghouls.

 

Which are technically a sub-species of darkspawn. I mean, the taint is now a part of them - even succesfully becoming a Grey Warden would only hold off the inevitable.

[fhs33721]

There's no "no sex" laws in Fereldan Circle, tho it varies circle to circle. Just it's not favored, because it'll likely cause more mage children. Forcing the child to be taken to another Circle. If I'm correct, isn't it said somewhere, Duncan beded a Fereldan mage at one point? I'd say Warden mage personally. Because, as Avernus says in Warden's Keep, being a Warden mage granted him the ability to improve his magic.

You are correct Duncan did sleep with an fereldan mage in the calling.

 

By the way there is no "no sex law" in Kirkwall either. In fact friendly templars like Ser Alrik or Ser Karras gladly provide their servies in order to make sure that no mage has to die a virgin. How very nice of them I guess.

 

On the other hand Warden do have to deal with unpleasant stuf like: nightmares, slowly turning into a mad ghoul, incessant whispering of the old gods in your head that will ultimately drive you insane and fighting monsters for the rest of your live.

And lets not forget  crawling around in the deepest cesspools of corruption and depravity  with disgusting, vile, creatures that live underground and are a blight on all of Thedas. Plus there is also Darkspawn down there as well.

 

So I guess I'd still prefer being a circle mage. Maybe not in Kirkwall (under Meredith) though if it can be avoided.

[Tielis]

So if you were a mage would you prefer to be in the circle (no sex or kids allowed, living in the same place for the rest of your life, restricted freedom and (possibly) abusive templars) or as a warden where you have more freedoms but have the certainty of dying within 20-30 years (if not sooner) and having to fight darkspawn for the rest of your life.

 

Personally I would rather be a warden. More freedom, even at the cost of a longer life, is one I would be willing to pay. Also it would be good to know that I am providing a service to thedas whether I am thanked or not.  

 

Edit: Btw I know these are not the only two options when you are a mage (apostate, magister, etc) but out of the two specifically what would you prefer?

 

Actually, Circle mages are allowed to marry and have children both, according to Wynne.  She also says that mages "take comfort in each other" often.  The biggest problem a Circle mage has when wanting to marry is finding a mate who isn't scared to death of them.

[fhs33721]

Actually, Circle mages are allowed to marry and have children both, according to Wynne.  She also says that mages "take comfort in each other" often.  The biggest problem a Circle mage has when wanting to marry is finding a mate who isn't scared to death of them.

What? How are they supposed to find and marry someone who isn't a mage inside the mage-tower they aren't allowed to leave? The only avaiable persons would be other mages or templars, both of which aren't really scared to death by a mage considering that option one is a mage themselves and option two is spends most of their time around mages and is trained to kill them.

[Cyrus Amell]

Actually, Circle mages are allowed to marry and have children both, according to Wynne.  She also says that mages "take comfort in each other" often.  The biggest problem a Circle mage has when wanting to marry is finding a mate who isn't scared to death of them.

 

That is completely miscronstrued. The Chantry goes to great lengths to prevent mages from having family bonds within the same Circle, it would almost be akin to trying to get married in prison. It's not a rule that you cannot marry in prison but every circumstance present ensures such a union is prohibited and short lived. Of course mages have relationships, the Circle is not explicitly celibate even if the Chantry would prefer all mages behaved like priests, but that is the extent to which most mages go. It's as scandoulous for a mage to be found with child as it would be for anyone else to be pregnant out of wedlock. The child in question will be taken by the Chantry and will either grow up to be a priest, templar or mage if it has magical powers.

 

Wynne merely mentioned the lack of options for a Circle mage to marry in the context of such a possiblity even being available in the first place. Magic is seen as disgraceful among the upper classes and distrusted among the supersetitous lower classes. Where between those options would there be a normal man or even woman want to marry a mage even if it were a possibilty?

 

There are extraorinary exceptions, of course, such as Shale's former master WIlhelm. But those are extraorinary exceptions, and it was never really revealed how a mage like Wilhelm would be allowed to live among a normal populace by the Chantry when that is exactly what they want to prevent. Apostates who gain the favor of influential and powerful political figures may be granted some reprieve if the apostate's arrest would be considered too impolitical or if the mage served the sovereign well.

[Reptillius]

You guys that are talking about being a Warden Mage and you'll just talk to Avernus on how to extend your life do realize that the Warden's are barely aware of his existence and he seems to be for some reason pretty much confined to that tower of his for one reason or another even after you free the keep?  Just going up and talking to him may not actually be a real option that can just magically make your problems with life span and the calling go away.

[wcholcombe]

Hmm live in a tower with all my needs provided for me or live with a vile poison in my body that will eventually drive me mad and result in my committing suicide by going on a calling........I would go Tower Mage.

 

Now put me in a time period of a an actual blight and I may choose to be a warden mage, but only because the sacrifice of the joining would really mean something.

[Cyrus Amell]

You guys that are talking about being a Warden Mage and you'll just talk to Avernus on how to extend your life do realize that the Warden's are barely aware of his existence and he seems to be for some reason pretty much confined to that tower of his for one reason or another even after you free the keep?  Just going up and talking to him may not actually be a real option that can just magically make your problems with life span and the calling go away.

 

It is mostly idle speculation concerning a massive exception to the standard faults of being a Grey Warden. Before this whole Mage-Templar War started the pros and cons of being a Circle Mage and Warden Mage were clear.

 

- Circle Mages could rise into powerful and comfortable positions within the confines of the Circle, a gilded cage but a cage nevertheless. Greater seniority means they have more autonomy, but this can take decades to achieve. They are under constant watch by the Templars and the threat of punishment at their hands, which some mages find unbearable. Importantly, Circle mages often don't have to fight in wars because the Chantry, which controls the Circle, rarely takes sides.

 

- Warden Mages are respected for their membership in the order, even allowed to use forbidden magics if their superiors believe the risk is justified (although this is often not the case). Warden Mages travel the lands fighting darkspawn warbands and join expditions into the Deep Roads. They are not confined within a single tower nor do they have to fear immediate reprisal from templars for their actions. This comes at the cost of permanent membership in the Wardens and all the responsibilty and risks that go along with it. They have more room to stretch their legs and more chances to test their powers, but this too is a role without total freedom. 

 

As I said, I would prefer to be a Warden Mage.  Why should I be locked up my whole life when there are Darkspawn out there just asking for a fireball to the face? Atleast on my off hours I can go to a nearby pub and get a drink, that's something most Circle Mages will never do.

[Sifr]

I'd go Grey Warden as a Mage, simply because even if it's a death sentence, you have freedom and the gloves finally get to come off.

 

I don't know why anyone would want to be a Circle Mage. Sure you get to live longer, but it's in a gilded cage and is that really living?

[Cyrus Amell]

I don't know why anyone would want to be a Circle Mage. Sure you get to live longer, but it's in a gilded cage and is that really living?

 

Food, a roof, a bed, an education and you don't have to worry about being hunted by the Templars (yet). Compare that to your average human peasent or city elf who toils and labors in the dirt, metaphoricaly and literally sometimes, and it's not hard to see how it wouldn't appeal to some. Depends on the Circle however because conditions vary.

 

True some mages are from wealthy or even royal families, but for many mages it is an improvement in their otherwise destined lot. Of course this is ignoring the very real risk of being made tranquil, then you'er a slave to the Chantry for life.

[Vita Brevis]

Both are terrible options, but I would have to go with the Wardens.  If they got rid of the "no sex" rule, then Circle for sure.

Wait, what? There are no such rules there. If you're talking about DA2, it was just Kirkwall. And this place was a dump by all standards.

There's no place for relationship in the Circle,yes, but not sex.

 

Food, a roof, a bed, an education and you don't have to worry about being hunted by the Templars (yet). 

Yeah, sure, you don't have to worry because they can do whatever the hell they want with you 24/7. No point in worrying because you can't possibly defend yourself at all and they don't even have to hunt you. You do anything they don't like - you get the brand, a horrible punishment or an abuse. 

Totally worth it - the bed, the food and the education. I even say the education part is the saddest thing because you have to obey dim witted zealots who barely can count to ten in majority. Few things suck more.