289 réponses à ce sujet

[CarrionFowl]

nah feeding off the Op's tears when they find out we wont get such a dlc is enough for me

 

That's a good idea as well^^ 

[Lord Bolton]

The thing is, Bioware CAN make attractive females. They are just not romanceable.

 

Look at Vivienne, Morrigan and Leliana. Morrigan's looks are much improved in the latest trailer as opposed to the hideous one we got the first time around, Leliana and Vivienne look classy as ever. 

 

Compare this to Cassandra, Josephine and Sera. The trio look ugly compared to Vivienne and Leliana. That's just fact. 

 

Cassandra in DA 2 looked decent. She was a perfect combination of butch and femininity. Her face in DA2 was feminine and yet she had short hair and the brusque attitude. In DAI however, they gave her a manjaw, scarred her face and make her look middle aged. I honestly prefer DA2's Cassandra as opposed to DAI Cassandra and one must remember that DAI has more graphical potential than DA 2.

 

Sera's face looks like a tomboy. Compare this with Dorian, who looks outstandingly handsome. She has a hot looking body though so that's not too bad. 

 

Josephine from the distance look good. However on close inspection, has what appears to be sports, warts and marks on her face. Contrast this to Leliana and how she looks from far and close up. 

 

The interesting thing is, making the romanceable female options look ugly in contrast to the non romanceable females costs more money. It takes more assets to make a face old, scarred, having masculine jaws and have spots as opposed to not doing that. 

 

One would have to wonder if there is an agenda being pushed here. Its as if the biologically pretty females are being put out of reach but the ones who look old, scarred, boyish...That's the only ones we got...

 

There is already a ton of not very good looking and ugly women and men in real life. Take a walk around and you will see what I mean. Old, with lots of lines, fat, etc. That's the norm, especially in North America.

 

At the very least, the fantasy that one engages in should be the opposite because fantasy is escapism. Why is it that straight women get to have their escapism with the handsome Cullen and manly Ser Beefcakes but not women ? Why is it that straight women get men that are biologically attractive but not straight men ?

 

I however am not in favor of romance DLCs. Bioware can make good looking females. They just don't want to make them romanceable. Since I play on PC this will not be a problem because of mods. 

 

Haha, from the all "male romance complain" topics this one is the funniest. You made my day. Thank you!

[Vapaa]

 

One would have to wonder if there is an agenda being pushed here.

 

paranoia/10

[WildOrchid]

paranoia/10

 

"It doesn't cater to me anymore, that must be agenda!!!!!!111111"

[BroBear Berbil]

By the way, you haven't been here long.  Plenty of men (straight and bi) have said that they are looking forward to the hetero romances in the game.  So really, you only speak for some men out there, which apparently includes your friends.  I'm sorry your friends feel that way, but they are a smaller sample size in comparison to literally the dozens (if not hundreds) of self-identified straight male posters that are looking forward to the romances.  

 

On the contrary, outside of BSN I've observed far more people that find the LIs for straight males to be downright ugly than those who feel the opposite. For my own tastes, Leliana is the only one who looks remotely attractive in Inquisition. I can look past a character's looks to some extent but Cassandra's face is just busted.

 

You have plenty of options.   You and your friends have been conditioned by pop culture to expect a certain type of female companion.  And its hard for you to change.   I have news for you. More women play games than they did ten years ago.   There are also a huge amount of gamers in the LGBT community and they deserve to be represented as well. 

 

I know change sucks but its not 2004 anymore. Its 2014.   You have Cassandra and Joesphine. You can also roll a female and romance Sera. 

 

I plan to try them all. My sexuality is not the determining factor at how I chose to play this game.

 

Oh boy, the good old, "you only like pretty women because of the media" line. How many women or gays there are that play games is irrelevant to how the options for straight men are presented.

[Panda]

i said before what i(and not the only one) want..i personaly want more options rather than numbers, want difference in romances not the same 2 type of romances who was created by their nature for the only 1 group of peoples

 

I don't think straight male Inquisitors have two similar options though. Cassandra is strong, straight-forward warrior woman and Josephine is more feminine noble woman who seems nice and is good with words. Both seem to be somehow romantic so I guess that the similar thing? Also they are both humans but I can't really see them as similar characters, their looks and personalities are too different.

[Farci Reprimer]

Can we keep this conversation on topic please? It's very important, imo, and needs to be seriously discussed. Thanks.

 

Pardon us for not taking this seriously enough. You are right this needs some serious-BHAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH-

HAHAHAHAHHAHAH!!

 

Sorry, I coudlnt say that with the straight face!

[Bayonet Hipshot]

On the contrary, outside of BSN I've observed far more people that find the LIs for straight males to be downright ugly than those who feel the opposite. For my own tastes, Leliana is the only one who looks remotely attractive in Inquisition. I can look past a character's looks to some extent but Cassandra's face is just busted.

 

 

Oh boy, the good old, "you only like pretty women because of the media" line. How many women or gays there are that play games is irrelevant to how the options for straight men are presented.

 

QFT. 

 

They should have kept Cassandra's DA2 face for DAI. Her DA2 face struck the perfect balance between being womanly and being warrior-like. 

 

Also, yes, outside of BSN and Twitter, almost every gamer (and non-gamer) I have spoken to think the same way. 

 

Also men do not like pretty women just because of the media. Men have liked pretty women for as long as we have existed as a species. Pretty women are biologically more appealing to men and as such induce strong reactions. People seem to forget that the world existed long before video games and television did...and men still liked pretty women back then. 

[Panda]

Some women just have strong jaws though and I don't think it's unpretty. I loved Cass looks in DA2, I liked them in the Dawn of the Seeker as well but her look in DAI is my fav. I'll be very happy to romance her with my male quizzy.

[daveliam]

You do realize that what is considered attractive is completely subjective, right?

 

For every straight female player who finds Blackwall attractive, there is another one who finds him old and his beard to be a turnoff.  For every straight female player who finds Cullen attractive, there is another one who finds "pretty boy" types to be boring and uninteresting.  For every gay male player who finds Dorian handsome, there is another one who can't get past his moustache.

 

So......for every straight male player who finds Cassandra to be "manly", there is another one who finds her beautiful.

[WildOrchid]

You do realize that what is considered attractive is completely subjective, right?

 

Apparently not.

[Lennard Testarossa]

You do realize that what is considered attractive is completely subjective, right?

 

For every straight female player who finds Blackwall attractive, there is another one who finds him old and his beard to be a turnoff.  For every straight female player who finds Cullen attractive, there is another one who finds "pretty boy" types to be boring and uninteresting.  For every gay male player who finds Dorian handsome, there is another one who can't get past his moustache.

 

So......for every straight male player who finds Cassandra to be "manly", there is another one who finds her beautiful.

 

Nope. Sure, attractivity is ultimately up to each individual, but that doesn't mean that there isn't such a thing as a beautiful person. Or an ugly person, for that matter. Perception of attractivity isn't a dice roll. Using precisely the same logic that you used here they could have only morbidly orbese, balding 65-year-old women with rotten teeth as LIs. And if anyone complains, then, well, "Attractivity is subjective!!".

 

Also, "for every x, there is a y" implies a 1:1 ratio of people who find Cassandra to be attractive and people who find Cassandra to be unattractive.

[Asdrubael Vect]

Also, "for every x, there is a y" implies a 1:1 ratio of people who find Cassandra to be attractive and people who find Cassandra to be unattractive.

And those who do not like or respect her at all no matter what her apperiance is, as with Cullen, Lelianna, Cole and for a real reasons.

[daveliam]

Nope. Sure, attractivity is ultimately up to each individual, but that doesn't mean that there isn't such a thing as a beautiful person. Or an ugly person, for that matter. Perception of attractivity isn't a dice roll. Using precisely the same logic that you used here they could have only morbidly orbese, balding 65-year-old women with rotten teeth as LIs. And if anyone complains, then, well, "Attractivity is subjective!!".

 

Also, "for every x, there is a y" implies a 1:1 ratio of people who find Cassandra to be attractive and people who find Cassandra to be unattractive.

 

Of course there is not a 1:1 ratio of people.  It's a commonly used phrase, not a quantitative measure. 

 

I'm well aware of the various attractiveness studies.  I'm also very well aware of the role that personal "taste" plays in determining attractiveness.  Neither of the LI's that are available for straight males fall outside of the "norms" of attractiveness.

 

Cassandra looks a lot like Mariska Hargitay, a very attractive actress.  Josephine is traditionally beautiful.  To try to suggest that they are horribly unattractive women is silly.  You might not find them attractive, but that doesn't mean that they are not attractive in general.

[SardaukarElite]

I'm sure the intervals between these threads are getting shorter. Soon two threads will come through at once, then three...

 

 

Also men do not like pretty women just because of the media. Men have liked pretty women for as long as we have existed as a species. Pretty women are biologically more appealing to men and as such induce strong reactions. People seem to forget that the world existed long before video games and television did...and men still liked pretty women back then. 

 

Which is why Grace Kelly bears an astonishing resemblance to the Mona Lisa.

 

Styles of beauty have changed a lot in the past century. Yes you can strip a person a person back to a generically attractive style that few people will object to, but they didn't. None of the current cast are actively unattractive, unless you have specific dislikes. Some like them some don't. Acting like their is a universal standard they must adhere to is obnoxious, erroneous and limiting.

[BroBear Berbil]

Some women just have strong jaws though and I don't think it's unpretty. I loved Cass looks in DA2, I liked them in the Dawn of the Seeker as well but her look in DAI is my fav. I'll be very happy to romance her with my male quizzy.

 

It's not just her jaw. It's her cheekbones, her brow, her eyes, and her jaw. I see her and the first thing that comes to mind is an Aztec man.

[daveliam]

It's not just her jaw. It's her cheekbones, her brow, her eyes, and her jaw. I see her and the first thing that comes to mind is an Aztec man.

 

So then romance Josephine.

[Asdrubael Vect]

 

[Lennard Testarossa]

Of course there is not a 1:1 ratio of people.  It's a commonly used phrase, not a quantitative measure. 

 

I'm well aware of the various attractiveness studies.  I'm also very well aware of the role that personal "taste" plays in determining attractiveness.  Neither of the LI's that are available for straight males fall outside of the "norms" of attractiveness.

 

Cassandra looks a lot like Mariska Hargitay, a very attractive actress.  Josephine is traditionally beautiful.  To try to suggest that they are horribly unattractive women is silly.  You might not find them attractive, but that doesn't mean that they are not attractive in general.

 

It's not a quantitative measure. But it does imply (and that was rather my point) a certain balance. And whether or not there really is such a balance remains to seen. (Though I wouldn't be surprised if there is.)

 

While I agree that they aren't horribly misshapen monstrosities, their general attractivity is debatable. And if you interpret this thread in the most generous way possible, it's what is being debated.

 

Which is why Grace Kelly bears an astonishing resemblance to the Mona Lisa.

 

Not entirely sure what your point is here. It's not like the Mona Lisa is supposed to be the pinnacle of beauty. Or, at least to my knowledge, even an attractive woman.

[daveliam]

 

<snip>

 

 

Oh my goodness!  You mean that a man and woman can resemble each other?  Alert the press!

 

Seriously, though, if you don't like Cassandra, romance Josephine.  If you don't like her either, don't romance anyone.  I didn't particularly like Anders or Fenris, but I chose to romance one or the other in each of my games.  And I had a perfectly enjoyable time regardless of the fact that I don't find either of them to be attractive (especially Fenris).  I don't expect Bioware to create additional options to meet my particular taste.

[BroBear Berbil]

So then romance Josephine.

 

I'm not going to romance anyone.

 

Josephine has a nicer facial structure than Cassandra but I'm not attracted to moles or darker skin tones.

 

Perhaps the worst part about all of this is the fact that it looks like we won't be able to mod them.

[CarrionFowl]

Not entirely sure what your point is here. It's not like the Mona Lisa is supposed to be the pinnacle of beauty. Or, at least to my knowledge, even an attractive woman.

 

The point was that at the time when the Mona Lisa was painted, she might have been considered a very beutiful woman. Though today's female ideal is somewhat changed (so that some may not find the Mona Lisa attractive) she might have been when the painting was created.

 

It's the same with Rubens really. When he painted his pieces, women who were a bit on the heavier side were considered beautiful, as it spoke of health and having enough money to eat so much that you could gain a few pounds.

 

I think the point was to prove that attractivity is not only up to the individual, but is also an reflection of the culture itself. I've heard that in Africa, heavier women are considered hot stuff while thin ones are disliked.

 

But maybe I'm reading too much into that, dunno... After all, I don't want to offend people, I might get burned at the stake if I do (careful: SARCASM!)

 

Regards, CarrionFowl

[Asdrubael Vect]

Oh my goodness!  You mean that a man and woman can resemble each other?  Alert the press!

 

Seriously, though, if you don't like Cassandra, romance Josephine.  If you don't like her either, don't romance anyone.  I didn't particularly like Anders or Fenris, but I chose to romance one or the other in each of my games.  And I had a perfectly enjoyable time regardless of the fact that I don't find either of them to be attractive (especially Fenris).  I don't expect Bioware to create additional options to meet my particular taste.

you does not read anything what i wrote as i see  yes by their look they(Cassandra, Josephine, Sera and Vivienne compare to Lelianna, Morrigan and others who we see as npc) are not atractive for many(and someone is try to put that Cassandra, Josephine are favorite by majority what is not true) but for me at least that is not the matter of Casaandra and Josephine apperiance but who they are and for what they work and stand

 

even if i can deal with their personality and their nature i cant romance them because i will stand for all what they oppose...they are enemies, they serve and stand of the side of my enemies..i am never a pro Orlais Empire/Antiva/Orlais Chantry/Tempalars/Qunari person..i oppose them everythere as i can...

 

many as i is not happy with forced advisors and companions as Lelianna, Cullen,Cassanra..because their are not a neutral persons and already do something what half will support and half will never

 

 

in DAO and DA2 we have a choice from those who have differences in all matters

[daveliam]

It's not a quantitative measure. But it does imply (and that was rather my point) a certain balance. And whether or not there really is such a balance remains to seen. (Though I wouldn't be surprised if there is.)

 

While I agree that they aren't horribly misshapen monstrosities, their general attractivity is debatable. And if you interpret this thread in the most generous way possible, it's what is being debated.

 

Not entirely sure what your point is here. It's not like the Mona Lisa is supposed to be the pinnacle of beauty. Or, at least to my knowledge, even an attractive woman.

 

The point is that what is considered attractive has drastically changed across time and culture.  The "attractiveness studies" that are being referred to by posters here with the "biology" argument represent only what people in Western cultures in the late 20th and early 21st centuries find to be attractive.  If you did those same exact studies in an Eastern or African society, the results would be different.  If you did those same exact studies in a Western culture in the 15th century, the results would be different.  Outside of a preference for symmetry in facial structures, there is little to no biologically-driven preference for any particular feature.

 

So, yes, the audience for this game is a Western culture in the early 21st century.  That plays a role in how the LI's are received.  However, to try to play the "biology" card is questionable when the arguments being made aren't supported. 

 

Again, there was an informal survey conducted on the site and the overwhelming majority of posters indicated that they are happy with their LI selection.  Something like 90% of the posters.  That includes hundreds of straight males.  I've seen about a dozen straight males complain about their choices.  It's the same set of posters in each of the threads.  I agree with you that it's not a 1:1 ratio.  The 'data' on the site suggests that, out of the BSN sample, the straight males who are unhappy with their options are outnumbered tenfold.