289 réponses à ce sujet

[SardaukarElite]

Not entirely sure what your point is here. It's not like the Mona Lisa is supposed to be the pinnacle of beauty. Or, at least to my knowledge, even an attractive woman.

 

Well I've never seen it myself, but I've often heard the Mona Lisa described favouribly. There was a longer list of people who don't look like Grace Kelly, but I culled it because I was tired. The point should have been better made, fair cop.

 

My point was that if there are traits that are universally biologically attractive to straight men they don't obviously show up throughout history. They may exist but you would have a hard time finding them, and proving that you'd found them.

[daveliam]

you does not read anything what i wrote as i see  yes by their look they(Cassandra, Josephine, Sera and Vivienne compare to Lelianna, Morrigan and others who we see as npc) are not atractive for many(and someone is try to put that Cassandra, Josephine are favorite by majority what is not true) but for me at least that is not the matter of Casaandra and Josephine apperiance but who they are and for what they work and stand

 

even if i can deal with their personality and their nature i cant romance them because i will stand for all what they oppose...they are enemies, they serve and stand of the side of my enemies..i am never a pro Orlais Empire/Antiva/Orlais Chantry/Tempalrs person..i oppose them everythere as i can

 

So then don't romance anyone.  But acknowledge that it's because of your personal tastes and not because of some larger ideal about what is and is not 'preferred' in a LI.  You know almost nothing about Josephine.  You are making grand assumptions about her character based on very, very little information.  I'd say, try playing the game and seeing what her character is like before you dismiss her.  I can somewhat understand your concerns with Cassandra as we already know her character.  But Josephine is brand new.  I've seen your arguments about her personality and, frankly, they are not compelling because they are mostly assumptions.

[Xilizhra]

Generics are generics for a reason my dear. 

 

Straight men generally like youthful, fit, long haired, pleasant disposition kind of women. Youth and long hair indicate good genes. Pleasant disposition indicate compatibility, all of which are qualities that the human male ape look for in his mates. 

 

Straight women generally like men who make good protectors and providers. Gruff,manliness and athletic ability indicate toughness and the ability to protect which is what the human female ape look for in her mates. 

 

The human ape evolved these preferences due to evolution. That is why, across ages, the sexes' idealism of one another has not changed. If this is not the case then we would not see the majority of human apes having these preferences. 

 

This is not sexism or something bad. This is biology. Perhaps you do not know what that word means. Perhaps to you, there is only liberal arts where scientific generics are myths. In biology we have generics all the time, including human mate preferences. 

Well, being bright blue and having tentacles growing out of one's head don't seem to be great indicators of health either, but I've met few people who thought Liara was ugly.

 

Now, as a lesbian, I'm not at all happy with the way the romances have been skewed, which has led me to agree with the aggrieved straight men more often than I'm accustomed to. However, I find all the attacks on Cassandra's appearance (and Josephine's, apparently, which I didn't even know was a thing) to be unfortunate, especially since the game isn't out yet and you'll likely be more drawn in by personality anyway. One hopes, at least.

[Asdrubael Vect]

when did cas get a sex change?

she just wash her lips

[Asdrubael Vect]

So then don't romance anyone.  But acknowledge that it's because of your personal tastes and not because of some larger ideal about what is and is not 'preferred' in a LI.  You know almost nothing about Josephine.  You are making grand assumptions about her character based on very, very little information.  I'd say, try playing the game and seeing what her character is like before you dismiss her.  I can somewhat understand your concerns with Cassandra as we already know her character.  But Josephine is brand new.  I've seen your arguments about her personality and, frankly, they are not compelling because they are mostly assumptions.

like i have a choice to romance someone what i was given  i will not like them or respect and never do anything what would please them and will never fight for who they wanted..i will do what is right and what i was must and plan to do from those what i can do

 

its not a mine only personal taste to be a male non-human mage and anti Orlais Empire/Antiva/Orlais Chantry/Templars/Seekers/Qunari person

 

ofcourse i would play but we already know enough to know who she is and for what she is stands...major and important parts of her and others we already know..some minor info what we would kniow change almost nothing

[ManOfSteel]

I'd rather have new story content, new characters to interact with and new areas to explore. They can easily add romance stuff to other DLC (such as romance-specific dialogue in Legacy and Mark of the Assassin for DA2, and Citadel for ME3) but I don't want a DLC to focus solely on such an optional part of the experience.

[daveliam]

like i have a choice to romance someone what i was given  i will not like them or respect and never do anything what would please them and will never fight for who they wanted..i will do what is right and what i was must and plan to do from those what i can do

 

its not a mine only personal taste to be a male non-human mage and anti Orlais Empire/Antiva/Orlais Chantry/Templars/Seekers/Qunari person

 

ofcourse i would play but we already know enough to know who she is and for what she is stands...major and important parts of her and others we already know..some minor info what we would kniow change almost nothing

 

You have choices.  You just don't like your choices. 

 

Also, you don't know that much about Josephine.  I know nothing about what she stands for outside of the fact that she is "fiercely devoted to the Inquisition".  The only things that I know about her personality are that she's fearsome with a quill, an old friend of Leliana's, a skilled diplomat, and an Antivan noble.  I think that this might be all we know about her, right? 

[daveliam]

I'd rather have new story content, new characters to interact with and new areas to explore. They can easily add romance stuff to other DLC (such as romance-specific dialogue in Legacy and Mark of the Assassin for DA2, and Citadel for ME3) but I don't want a DLC to focus solely on such an optional part of the experience.

 

Aren't DLC questlines optional too?

[Lennard Testarossa]

Without any quotes, regarding the Mona Lisa point:

 

The Mona Lisa isn't exactly an ideal example, because she isn't really supposed to be all that attractive. That's why people speculate things like it being somewhat of a self-portrait. Rubens pictures (which are more or less always cited when it comes to discussions about ideals of beauty) are also not really all that helpful in this context, as they are in no way representative of the ideals of beauty of his time. It's literally just one painter who painted women like that. I am not aware of a single contemporary who painted similar pictures.

 

I appreciate the general point, i.e. that ideals of beauty change over time. People in medieval Europe (or Rome) likely liked their women to be somewhat fuller. (Though not overweight or anywhere close to what Rubens painted.)

 

My point was that if there are traits that are universally biologically attractive to straight men they don't obviously show up throughout history. They may exist but you would have a hard time finding them, and proving that you'd found them.

 

They aren't as simple as having body type or face type x or y, but I would argue that they exist. Universal biologically attractive traits would be about things like general signs of health (skin, hair) or hormone levels.

[Asdrubael Vect]

You have choices.  You just don't like your choices. 

 

Also, you don't know that much about Josephine.  I know nothing about what she stands for outside of the fact that she is "fiercely devoted to the Inquisition".  The only things that I know about her personality are that she's fearsome with a quill, an old friend of Leliana's, a skilled diplomat, and an Antivan noble.  I think that this might be all we know about her, right? 

because our choices is

 

human nonmage Orlais templar/seeker and right hand of Orlais Divine, andrastian zealot who is pro Orlais/Orlais Chantry/Templar/Seekers

 

human nonmage  Antivan noble/merchant Ambassador in Orlais, not so andrastian zealot(but who is a bisexual trusted old friend of Lelianna) who is pro Orlais/Antiva/Orlais Chantry/Templar/Seekers

[Asdrubael Vect]

Mona Lisa is just a portrait of some noble man wife...nothing more

[daveliam]

They aren't as simple as having body type or face type x or y, but I would argue that they exist. Universal biologically attractive would be about things like general signs of health (skin, hair) or hormone levels.

 

Agreed.  And Cass and Josephine both fit into this category.  Neither of them have patchy or greasy hair.  Neither of them have acne or oily skin.  Cass has a scar and Josephine has a mole and freckles.  There's nothing about them to indicate that they are unhealthy or unattractive in those terms.

[CarrionFowl]

Without any quotes, regarding the Mona Lisa point:

 

The Mona Lisa isn't exactly an ideal example, because she isn't really supposed to be all that attractive. That's why people speculate things like it being somewhat of a self-portrait. Rubens pictures (which are more or less always cited when it comes to discussions about ideals of beauty) are also not really all that helpful in this context, as they are in no way representative of the ideals of beauty of his time. It's literally just one painter who painted women like that. I am not aware of a single contemporary who painted similar pictures.

 

I appreciate the general point, i.e. that ideals of beauty change over time. People in medieval Europe (or Rome) likely liked their women to be somewhat fuller. (Though not overweight or anywhere close to what Rubens painted.)

 

Seems like I missed the point there, since it was basically what I wrote that got quoted here... Sorry if I did^^ No offense intended

[daveliam]

because our choices is

 

human nonmage Orlais templar/seeker and right hand of Orlais Divine, andrastian zealot who is pro Orlais/Orlais Chantry/Templar/Seekers

 

human nonmage  Antivan noble/merchant Ambassador in Orlais, not so andrastian zealot(but who is a bisexual trusted old friend of Lelianna) who is pro Orlais/Antiva/Orlais Chantry/Templar/Seekers

 

You don't know that Josephine is a "zealot" nor that she is pro Orlais/Antiva/Orlais Chantry/Templar/Seekers.  You are really just assuming this.  She's a diplomat.  Diplomats have to be able to appear to be in favor of whatever culture they are working with (or at least be respectful of their customs).  You don't know what she really thinks or feels yet. 

 

Also, why does the fact that she's bisexual and a trusted old friend of Leliana matter?  One of my best friends is a Christian.  I'm an athiest.  You can't assume anything about her beliefs based on this.

[AresKeith]

And those who do not like or respect her at all no matter what her apperiance is, as with Cullen, Lelianna, Cole and for a real reasons.

If those reasons are actual fact and not made up headcanon

[phantomrachie]

QFT. 

 

They should have kept Cassandra's DA2 face for DAI. Her DA2 face struck the perfect balance between being womanly and being warrior-like. 

 

Also, yes, outside of BSN and Twitter, almost every gamer (and non-gamer) I have spoken to think the same way. 

 

Also men do not like pretty women just because of the media. Men have liked pretty women for as long as we have existed as a species. Pretty women are biologically more appealing to men and as such induce strong reactions. People seem to forget that the world existed long before video games and television did...and men still liked pretty women back then. 

 

Everyone likes what they consider to be beautiful people HOWEVER what it is considered beautiful changes based on society 

 

In the 1600's 'plus size' was considered very attractive and healthy and in the 19th Century, corsets were worn to make your breasts noticeable but not too big.

 

You can see a few other examples here

 

http://news.discover...auty-120412.htm

 

All of these photos are of beautiful women of their time but not all would be considered beautiful now.

 

Even today, who you consider attractive is based on were you live 

 

 

What we consider to be beautify is not simply based on genetics, society has a big influence too.

 

You can't tell me that all or even most straight men & women, gay men & women or bisexuals prefer the same features when people with a wide variety of facial features and body types fall in love every day.

 

I respect your opinion that Cassandra is not attractive, personally I prefer her DA:I look and think she is very attractive, but I wont respect your insistence that not finding her attractive is due to DNA rather than your own subjective opinion.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

Well, being bright blue and having tentacles growing out of one's head don't seem to be great indicators of health either, but I've met few people who thought Liara was ugly.

 

Now, as a lesbian, I'm not at all happy with the way the romances have been skewed, which has led me to agree with the aggrieved straight men more often than I'm accustomed to. However, I find all the attacks on Cassandra's appearance (and Josephine's, apparently, which I didn't even know was a thing) to be unfortunate, especially since the game isn't out yet and you'll likely be more drawn in by personality anyway. One hopes, at least.

 

I personally only have issue with Cassandra's looks and her inclusion as a romance option. There was this guy called Regalyan D'Marcall.  IMO, I would have preferred Vivienne instead. 

 

As for Josie, looks wise, she is all right because she looks like a younger version of my mom from some angles and I was just stating the comments other men made of her. It also means romancing Josie will be very weird and incredibly awkward for me. 

[SardaukarElite]

They aren't as simple as having body type or face type x or y, but I would argue that they exist. Universal biologically attractive traits would be about things like general signs of health (skin, hair) or hormone levels.

 

Right. I would go further and say it is fairly easy to create a character who is basically universally attractive - the Disney Princess sort of generic - but that is a limited frame to work in, and people will only like them so much.

 

It seems branching out from the generic increases the extremity of the reaction, but also allows greater variation in characters.

[Bayonet Hipshot]

*Wall of text*

 

That's a fair position to take. I concede that beauty has both biological and cultural elements. 

 

Personally, I have never been into brutish people of any sort, be it real life or in game and be it men or women. 

 

I always liked the scientist type and the scholarly type of person. 

 

Now this was not a problem in previous Dragon Age games. You always had a mage female love interest or a bardic female love interest who can be your companion. Leliana, Morrigan, Merrill. 

 

This time, the ONLY companion romance straight males are getting is a brutish warrior. Josephine looks to be decent but she is an advisor. She has her own appeal with the homely manage-the-nest type wife but you cannot bring her around with you to explore the world or for combat like you do a follower. 

 

Seriously wished for more options on follower romance options for straight males. 

 

Though I do not want a DLC for it. 

[Lennard Testarossa]

Seems like I missed the point there, since it was basically what I wrote that got quoted here... Sorry if I did^^ No offense intended

 

Why would I be offended?

 

 

In the 1600's 'plus size' was considered very attractive and healthy and in the 19th Century, corsets were worn make your breasts noticeable but not too big.

 

You can see a few other examples here

 

http://news.discover...auty-120412.htm

 

No. 'plus size' being considered attractive (well, if you define 'plus size' like in the picture in your link, anyway) in the 1600s is simply not true. The entire notion is based solely on the pictures of a single painter, namely Rubens, who is of course also the person who painted the 'example' picture in your link. But it's not an example, because no one else painted women like that. One guy's paintings are not enough to determine the beauty standards of an entire continent over a century.

[shepard0445]

QFT. 

 

They should have kept Cassandra's DA2 face for DAI. Her DA2 face struck the perfect balance between being womanly and being warrior-like. 

 

Also, yes, outside of BSN and Twitter, almost every gamer (and non-gamer) I have spoken to think the same way. 

 

Also men do not like pretty women just because of the media. Men have liked pretty women for as long as we have existed as a species. Pretty women are biologically more appealing to men and as such induce strong reactions. People seem to forget that the world existed long before video games and television did...and men still liked pretty women back then. 

but in the past "fat" woman were pretty and nice for the man so the word pretty should be explored by every person it self and it isn´t possible to make every person happy in a video game or movie. do you ask for a new movie only because the ending was bad or you didn´t like that or this? so why you don´t accept the terme that it is so and that knowing whil chance.

 

I for my part likes the DAI romance options for man but i didn´t liked them in DA2 and i can´t do anything aboput it. it is all a question of the taste.

[phantomrachie]

That's a fair position to take. I concede that beauty has both biological and cultural elements. 

 

Personally, I have never been into brutish people of any sort, be it real life or in game and be it men or women. 

 

I always liked the scientist type and the scholarly type of person. 

 

Now this was not a problem in previous Dragon Age games. You always had a mage female love interest or a bardic female love interest who can be your companion. Leliana, Morrigan, Merrill. 

 

This time, the ONLY companion romance straight males are getting is a brutish warrior. Josephine looks to be decent but she is an advisor. She has her own appeal with the homely manage-the-nest type wife but you cannot bring her around with you to explore the world or for combat like you do a follower. 

 

Seriously wished for more options on follower romance options for straight males. 

 

Though I do not want a DLC for it. 

 

 

That is a completely valid opinion to have and I know how you feel.

 

As much as I like Josephine, it'll be weird not being able to travel around with her in DA:I, as in the past 2 games I've always traveled with my LI.

 

I also would've loved to have Vivienne as romance option, she is beautiful, and her personality seems so interesting.

 

 

 

 

human nonmage  Antivan noble/merchant Ambassador in Orlais, not so andrastian zealot(but who is a bisexual trusted old friend of Lelianna) who is pro Orlais/Antiva/Orlais Chantry/Templar/Seekers

 

Literally nothing that we know about Josephine tells us this. It's like you're making stuff up to fit some theory you have.

[Asdrubael Vect]

If those reasons are actual fact and not made up headcanon

they are actual facts

 

http://www.bioware.ru/forum/forum/223/

 

http://www.bioware.r...um/topic/27755/

[Asdrubael Vect]

Literally nothing that we know about Josephine tells us this. It's like you're making stuff up to fit some theory you have.

she is human

 

she is non-mage

 

she is andrastian

 

she have Antivan noble/merchant heritage and she was a Ambassador In Orlais Empire

 

she is bisexual and old as very trusted friend of Lelianna who was putted in Inquisition as Cullen