205 réponses à ce sujet

[Starscream723]

I can't imagine being so dramatic over something so minor. I think the OP needs to step back and get a little perspective.

 

That's odd, because the only people I see being overly dramatic are the ones trying to inflate this into an Earth-shattering, Pre-order-cancelling, Game-breaking Everybody-Wail-And-Scream argument. The OP pointed out that a bunch of the promotional materials have issues, many of which are minor, some which aren't, and that they're starting to add up. The OP thinks that people whose entire JOB is marketing should probably be aiming higher than "Eh, it'll do. No-one will cancel their pre-order over it."

 

This was met with wild hysteria and people telling OP to get a grip, like he was having an anxiety attack and raving about how the sky was falling. It's a very obvious case of elevating the complaint to an absurd level in order to avoid acknowledging that there might actually be a valid point. Unless the only points allowed for discussion are now ones that DO affect if the game will flop entirely?

 

Seriously, OP reasonably pointed out that the promotional images could use greater QC. Disagreement with that is fine, but I can't believe how (some) people responded. To paraphrase something a wise person said one time, I can't imagine being so dramatic over something so minor. Some of these posters need to step back and get a little perspective. Especially the "Promo art should have glitches in it" guy.

[Beerfish]

I wanted to make this a separate thread from the character image thread, because as much as I support this game, I've frankly grown very tired of Bioware making so many mistakes with their promos. I've seen blatant cases of clipping in so many of their trailers and images, and now there's this. I just wanted to bring some awareness here, hoping that they'll be more careful in the future. Because this right here is pretty damn silly.

 

I hate to be Mr. Nitpick, but I can't believe this went unnoticed before they posted this online. I admit I'm not an expert in Archery, but I'm pretty certain that this is completely incorrect. The first problem is that the quiver is positioned wrong. If she's using her right hand to draw arrows and fire them, then the quiver should be positioned so that it's leaning towards her right side, so she can reach over and grab them.

 

What?  That is just how you would have it over the opposite shoulder, pat your right hand on your right shoulder then pat your hand on your left shoulder, more natural to get something from the opposite side.

 

The second issue is look at the bowstring. It's over her left arm. Pretend right now that you're using your right hand to draw an arrow from a quiver that's leaning towards your left side. Then place the arrow on your imaginary bow, and pretend you're drawing the string when the string is over your left arm, not under it. See the problem? I understand we can't always be perfect. Clipping will exist in games, it's just how it is and I accept that. But it shouldn't exist in your trailers and images, and mistakes like the one in the bottom picture shouldn't either. I love your work Bioware, but you really gotta be more careful.

 

She has her arm guard on that arm if you notice and she has not actually drawn the bow so we have no clue how she is actually going to shoot.  Also some people actually have their dominant eye opposite of what handed they are?  I shoot a gun left hand, use a pool cue left handed but do other things right handed.

 

I would love to see you criticize how Jimmy Hendrix played the guitar.

 

[Star fury]

Seriously, the amount of defense on behalf of Bioware in this thread is bordering on the ridiculous. Bioware is a company, not a collection of delicate little flowers, I'm pretty sure they can survive having a glaring mistake in their promotional matierial pointed out to them by their fans. And let's be honest here, this is a glaring mistake. Anyone who knows anything about bows knows how to nock and draw the arrow, especially if they've gone to the extent of giving Sera proper archery protection equipment like the glove and forearm protector. Is it a serious issue? Far from it. Is it glaring? Yes, absolutely. And it's a mistake that should not happen in a project that is as big as DAI supposedly is.

You've convinced us, pre-order cancelled!

[Mathias]

@Mathias:  You've already conceded that it would not change your pre-order; so I wonder as to the point of the post at all?

Why illuminate this artistic error at all?  Are you an artist?  Are you a game designer?  If it's truly to help Bioware, why post it to the consumer? 

What is the point of the "concerned consumer" about this particular topic?

I would imagine that this has nothing, at all, to do with the game designers.  Instead, I imagine a commissioned artist did the work and the advertising department decided when it (all of them) were ready to be released to the public.

Perhaps you're an advertising agent?

If you're simply a consumer looking to point out a potential "blooper" in EA/Bioware's advertising campaign - kudos.

But again, you said it doesn't change anything for you.  So ultimately you're saying: "I saw something, and it's value is ultimately "0".

NOTE:  I didn't honestly read most of the thread.  So perhaps you illuminated this elsewhere. 

 

Because if someone makes a mistake, you should address it, otherwise they won't learn. This is constructive criticism. At no point in my OP do I portray or describe myself as being outraged or that I'm cancelling my preordering. Yet there is a staggering amount of people in this thread accusing me of behaving this way. It's easy to make my concerns seem trivial when the people defending Bioware described me as acting overly dramatic for something so small.

But here's the truth. I'm not being over dramatic. The real drama lies with how some people on here are taking this. But when I see such blatant and obvious mistakes being made, MULTIPLE times mind you, then that sends a message to me that they don't seem to care all that much for the quality control of their promotions. And some of these mistakes are pretty silly, let's not kid ourselves here. The other problem is that they are representing their product with these images and videos.

[dutch_gamer]

Yeah I did notice it, twas a pity but looking at other images of characters released it seems to be across the board. These mistakes should be fixed before they release the finished piece of course but what are you gonna do *shrugs*

It is across the board with the latest art they released? I can't say I have noticed that, unless you mean just all media in general. If it is that you really can't expect them to first fix all bugs in all of the promotional material before they show it to us or they will not show anything until right before release.

Maybe some developers fix everything before showing anything or heck they probably just fix up the screenshots with a program such as Photoshop but I must rather see the honest truth. Too often games look nothing like what we are being shown and often do have serious issues where the game seemingly had none when the developers showed off their game. I do appreciate good graphics but at the same time I always try to see game development from the point of view of the developers and the limitations they face.

I wish that more gamers would be a little bit more understanding instead of driving up the cost of gaming even more than necessary mainly because they like to nitpick. A simple art piece like that of Sera is not worth a thread or the worry BioWare botched up promoting DAI. For me marketing is in the trailers and the demos, not so much in Sera's art which to me just exists to keep the forumites busy, people who have mostly already preordered the game.

[CrimsonN7]

It is across the board with the latest art they released? I can't say I have noticed that, unless you mean just all media in general. If it is that you really can't expect them to first fix all bugs in all of the promotional material before they show it to us or they will not show anything until right before release.

Maybe some developers fix everything before showing anything or heck they probably just fix up the screenshots with a program such as Photoshop but I must rather see the honest truth. Too often games look nothing like what we are being shown and often do have serious issues where the game seemingly had none when the developers showed off their game. I do appreciate good graphics but at the same time I always try to see game development from the point of view of the developers and the limitations they face.

I wish that more gamers would be a little bit more understanding instead of driving up the cost of gaming even more than necessary mainly because they like to nitpick. A simple art piece like that of Sera is not worth a thread or the worry BioWare botched up promoting DAI. For me marketing is in the trailers and the demos, not so much in Sera's art which to me just exists to keep the forumites busy, people who have mostly already preordered the game.

 

Nah it's just a few lil mistakes in other older images they released, doesn't stop me from sleeping at night don't worry.   Haven't pre-ordered this game myself, never pre-ordered a Bioware game before, can't threaten to cancel anything lols. But seriously I'm not that annoyed over all this, it's more silly than anything, just a pity they didn't catch it before they released it, that's all.

[Little Princess Peach]

admit it!  when you noticed that bow string...U LAUGHED! admit it!

I died a little in inside R.I.P bow string

[sangy]

I see nothing wrong with the picture.  If you look at a lot of famous pieces of art in history, you'd be able to self analyze them as well.  Let it go.

[SomeoneStoleMyName]

Never really noticed clipping issues in games ever (unless they were EXTREMELY obvious or bugged). Ive been a gamer for 20 years.

Im not sure what causes people to care about clipping to be honest. My imagination fill in the blanks and slight errors. I always considered people who cares about clipping issues in the same line of people that dont play fantasy games because "Magic isnt really possible in reality", or are major OCD or otherwise unhealthy focus on details.

Its like having the most beautiful library in the world and be obsessively annoyed by a book that sticks out or a spider web in a corner. Slight imperfections are found in all things, people that cannot appreciate beauty due to a minimal flaw... I just dont understand that mentality or how people can enjoy life that way.

Conclusion: If clipping errors bothers you, you either lack imagination or have an unhealthy eye for details - detrimenting your own pleasure at inconsequential details.

[AshesEleven]

Because if someone makes a mistake, you should address it, otherwise they won't learn. This is constructive criticism. At no point in my OP do I portray or describe myself as being outraged or that I'm cancelling my preordering. Yet there is a staggering amount of people in this thread accusing me of behaving this way. It's easy to make my concerns seem trivial when the people defending Bioware described me as acting overly dramatic for something so small.

But here's the truth. I'm not being over dramatic. The real drama lies with how some people on here are taking this. But when I see such blatant and obvious mistakes being made, MULTIPLE times mind you, then that sends a message to me that they don't seem to care all that much for the quality control of their promotions. And some of these mistakes are pretty silly, let's not kid ourselves here. The other problem is that they are representing their product with these images and videos.

 

It's not a glaring issue, though.  It's not blatant or obvious, at least not to most people  I'm not going to defend Bioware for everything, but this is only a big issue if you let it be.  I realize that some people like to get very nitpicky over everything, and fine, you do you.  

 

But don't pretend this is a huge issue with the marketing team.  I guarantee very few people give a **** about this.  

 

And some people (like me) feel better if we're shown a few glitches and mistakes.  Otherwise it feels like I'm being lied to about how the game will look.  I've always hated those perfect demos where everything works out great and it looks like a cinematic almost.  Because I know that's not how the game will actually work.  I want to see an accurate depiction of the game.  

 

You *are* blowing this out of proportion.  Let's not kid ourselves.  

[hangmans tree]

Hey, drones and ones that don't care less about promo art, let me quote something for you:

ART WHICH IS OF VALUE, STANDS UP TO SCRUTINY AND INTERPRETATION!

Guess who made that claim? Oh -noes, it was Bioware during EGX presentation... which is like do not follow your own advice. One could argue these errors are minor and nothing that would break world apart but still, they lessen the value of given art. And if you advocate and claim you don't care or it doesn't matter, you tell the art HAS NO VALUE. In other words DAI promo art is pointless and a complete waste of time and resources.

[AshesEleven]

Hey, drones and ones that don't care less about promo art, let me quote something for you:

ART WHICH IS OF VALUE, STANDS UP TO SCRUTINY AND INTERPRETATION!

Guess who made that claim? Oh -noes, it was Bioware during EGX presentation... which is like do not follow your own advice. One could argue these errors are minor and nothing that would break world apart but still, they lessen the value of given art. And if you advocate and claim you don't care or it doesn't matter, you tell the art HAS NO VALUE. In other words DAI promo art is pointless and a complete waste of time and resources.

 

Wow, your logic is impeccable.  

 

"I don't really mind the mistakes, therefore I think this artwork is a waste of time."

[Mathias]

That's odd, because the only people I see being overly dramatic are the ones trying to inflate this into an Earth-shattering, Pre-order-cancelling, Game-breaking Everybody-Wail-And-Scream argument. The OP pointed out that a bunch of the promotional materials have issues, many of which are minor, some which aren't, and that they're starting to add up. The OP thinks that people whose entire JOB is marketing should probably be aiming higher than "Eh, it'll do. No-one will cancel their pre-order over it."

 

This was met with wild hysteria and people telling OP to get a grip, like he was having an anxiety attack and raving about how the sky was falling. It's a very obvious case of elevating the complaint to an absurd level in order to avoid acknowledging that there might actually be a valid point. Unless the only points allowed for discussion are now ones that DO affect if the game will flop entirely?

 

Seriously, OP reasonably pointed out that the promotional images could use greater QC. Disagreement with that is fine, but I can't believe how (some) people responded. To paraphrase something a wise person said one time, I can't imagine being so dramatic over something so minor. Some of these posters need to step back and get a little perspective. Especially the "Promo art should have glitches in it" guy.

 

Thank you for getting it.

[mikeymoonshine]

I do agree that the pic with Solas where his hand clips right through a rock was something that should never been released because it was a pretty big and pretty noticeable mistake. I don't really see the problem with minor bugs and clipping though and it seems a little over the top to hound them for that. 

 

As for this well yeah, it does look a bit silly but if you want weapons that are used realistically then this isn't the game for you. Holding a bow like that wouldn't work but neither would carrying a greatsword on your back the way they do it DA. Why is this picture a bigger deal than all the silly ways we are going to be seeing characters use weapons in the game? 

[Mathias]

I do agree that the pic with Solas where his hand clips right through a rock was something that should never been released because it was a pretty big and pretty noticeable mistake. I don't really see the problem with minor bugs and clipping though and it seems a little over the top to hound them for that. 

 

As for this well yeah, it does look a bit silly but if you want weapons that are used realistically then this isn't the game for you. Holding a bow like that wouldn't work but neither would carrying a greatsword on your back the way they do it DA. Why is this picture a bigger deal than all the silly ways we are going to be seeing characters use weapons in the game? 

 

Well no I get it's a fantasy and all, but they should at least look like they're operating these weapons correctly. Given the position of the quiver and the bowstring in Sera's picture, I'm surprised she didn't nock the arrow backwards.

[NewBlue]

I really don't care.

[Jaulen]

Didn't care about the quiver issue since I was thinking "they're doing that to show it off"

 

But the way she's holding the bow and the way she's got the arrow nocked made both my husband and I laugh.

Especially since she's looking like she's expecting to let loose that arrow at any moment.

 

Then we figured, maybe it was the Thedas 'gansta' way of shooting a bow....

 

(although it would give poor aim, and painful arm trauma)

[Sylvius the Mad]

It's not a glaring issue, though. It's not blatant or obvious, at least not to most people I'm not going to defend Bioware for everything, but this is only a big issue if you let it be. I realize that some people like to get very nitpicky over everything, and fine, you do you.

But don't pretend this is a huge issue with the marketing team. I guarantee very few people give a **** about this.

It's akin to carrying a sword upside-down. It's a pretty big mistake, and BioWare should want to know about it.

And we want them not to make those sorts of errors, then raising the issue in public creates a further disincentive by increasing the PR cost of the flub.

[Medhia_Nox]

@Crescent_Moon:  But the OP is suggesting the problem is not minor, and I am curious as to why.  The OP states that others are trying to make his commentary seem trivial which suggests he believes it is not trivial.

Yes, they are errors.

 

I've walked through markets where people openly give commentary about anything, and everything, they pass as if they are an authority.  I do not see much of a difference here.  These people do not seek to talk to the staff, manager or owner in a constructive way - they simply want to be the person finding fault and expressing it to their peers as they clearly think they could do better.

 

As for those reacting passionately in defense of Bioware.  I might suggest more than some of them might be working individuals who have made mistakes of their own in the past and a boss, or consumer, called them out in the name of being "helpful".  Perhaps some of them simply realize that they too have made mistakes and it's so much easier for someone to critique something than it is for the same person to actually do something of their own. Note:  I do not know any of them and do not claim that this is in any way factual, but having made mistakes in the past where someone has done this very thing, I can imagine some might be defensive (for myself, I simply smile and take the advice knowing that the same person who critiques likely has no talent in the area they are critiquing in so it is only natural that they fall into a lower strata of involvement).

[Almostfaceman]

OP is not being over-dramatic.

 

The flaws don't bother me that much.

 

But, it's cool if folks point it out. Feedback is, after all, one of the points of having a company/customer forum. 

[AshesEleven]

It's akin to carrying a sword upside-down. It's a pretty big mistake, and BioWare should want to know about it.

And we want them not to make those sorts of errors, then raising the issue in public creates a further disincentive by increasing the PR cost of the flub.

 

I find Sera's position ridiculous, and out of all the artwork it's probably my least favourite.  I'm not disputing that.  

 

I'm disputing that this is an issue that requires us to get all upset about.  Yes, we should let them know when they've made a big mistake (and it seems to be gamers are VERY GOOD at letting developers know when they've made a mistake).  But if THIS is what we're getting upset about now, then I think we all need to take a step back.  If someone's decision to buy this game is affected by Sera's artwork, then I don't think they will be missed much by Bioware.

 

Gamers in general need to relax more.  We get upset way too easily.  I realize it's because we're all very passionate about games, but come on.  We could all stand to relax a little bit.  This is nitpicking.  

[PhroXenGold]

I find Sera's position ridiculous, and out of all the artwork it's probably my least favourite.  I'm not disputing that.  

 

I'm disputing that this is an issue that requires us to get all upset about.  Yes, we should let them know when they've made a big mistake (and it seems to be gamers are VERY GOOD at letting developers know when they've made a mistake).  But if THIS is what we're getting upset about now, then I think we all need to take a step back.  If someone's decision to buy this game is affected by Sera's artwork, then I don't think they will be missed much by Bioware.

 

Gamers in general need to relax more.  We get upset way too easily.  I realize it's because we're all very passionate about games, but come on.  We could all stand to relax a little bit.  This is nitpicking.  

 

Thing is, the only people that actually seem to be getting upset are those who are unhappy that that the issue has even been raised. Those criticising the image have simply pointed out there's a problem with the marketing dept.'s QC and suggested they improve things next time.

[Lukas Trevelyan]

I guess the feedback is good. Yet I'm just not sure if this is some kind of major problem. After all it was one image out of ten promotional images, and should Bioware have 1 promotional image with 2 mistakes that aren't really that horrible (the quiver was positioned that way for artistic reasons, the string may have just been a slip and you could easily just ignore it) then they're doing just fine with their promotional material. Let it go.