128 réponses à ce sujet

[Bigdoser]

Yeah, I've never understood the people who say 'Hawke is a moron who let his mother die, failed to stop the qunari in time, and caused the Mage/templar war.'  He didn't cause any of these things, they just happened and he was there.

Pretty much that's kinda the whole point of the story Cass thought at the start that Hawke had something to do with the war starting but after the story. Hawke had no involvement with it starting what's so ever.

 

Plus why on earth would I deny Hawke wanting to help? Considering the situation(demons invading) I find that pretty silly to say the least we have a skilled warrior/rogue/mage who is highly likely interested in helping and you are going to turn down help? For something he had no involvement in starting? Right... 

[Ceoldoren]

Pretty much that's kinda the whole point of the story Cass thought at the start that Hawke had something to do with the war starting but after the story. Hawke had no involvement with it starting what's so ever.

 

Plus why on earth would I deny Hawke wanting to help? Considering the situation(demons invading) I find that pretty silly to say the least we have a skilled warrior/rogue/mage who is highly likely interested in helping and you are going to turn down help? For something he had no involvement in starting? Right... 

Yeah, I don't see realistically why anyones Inquisitor would want to kill/tell Hawke to sod off. Unless your Inquisitor is a stubborn fool who would rather fight some guy they know next to nothing about rather than focusing on the demons pouring out of the sky.

[n7stormrunner]

Yeah, I don't see realistically why anyones Inquisitor would want to kill/tell Hawke to sod off. Unless your Inquisitor is a stubborn fool who would rather fight some guy they know next to nothing about rather than focusing on the demons pouring out of the sky.

 

because s/he isn't the wonderful ultimate charming hero the warden was. never mind the inquisotor doesn't know either of them personally.

 

one thing I have noted most of the ones who hate hawke worship the ground the warden walked on and/or really disliked da 2.

[MillKill]

People hate Hawke because they've gotten so used to rpg protagonists being Mary Sue self-insert power fantasies that any deviation from that model leaves them scared, confused, and angry.

[aTigerslunch]

Hawke was my Hawke, and could of been me, as I was able to do a CC on them, and choose how they respond to others. *shrugs*  At least he/she was base model human that can be altered to what we want....complaint against another hero not being diversified is bit more understandable to me than the complaints on Hawke.

[Kaiser Arian XVII]

Hawke is an epic fail. You too?

[Muspade]

Refusing the aid of one of the greatest fighters on Thedas seems kind of...not wise?

[PhroXenGold]

Refusing the aid of one of the greatest fighters on Thedas seems kind of...not wise?

 

Heh...I'd love it if, should the player make too many utterly idiotic decisions like not accepting Hawke's help, the big bad wins and Thedas is destroyed

[aTigerslunch]

Hawke fails those that don't like DA2 obviously, I don't care about changing opinions.    I loved DA2 anyways.

 

What I am trying to change is, relate to your Hawke, not all Hawkes.  As not everyone has the same opinion. Centralize your disagreement to your own, and .....

 

oh wait, then you cant argue anymore....oops my bad.

[Ieldra]

Because they didn't like the game (fair enough) and blame it on the character?

Because he had a voice? (Seriously).

Because he was a human, and couldn't be any other race?

Because people felt he had too much established character, and wasn't just a blank canvas for them to paint how they wanted?

Because there were things in the game that he couldn't change?

Because he was just a guy who was trying to cope with all the crappy situations that kept getting thrown at him, instead of a world-altering God who could outright decide everything that happened in His world?

Because the choices in his game were more about deciding how he reacted to events, his attitude, and his relationship with his friends, rather than choosing the specific outcomes of major world events?

Because they already decided they wanted to be Their Warden?

 

Basically pick from the above, mix & match style. Replace "He" with "She" if necessary.

Pretty much this, sadly. IMO there was plenty about DA2 to dislike, but Hawke wasn't part of that. I liked the story and I like my Hawkes. You'd think people would have more sympathy for them, with the world throwing ever-increasing amounts of sh*t at them and them walking away more or less unscathed and seriously leveled-up in badass. That they inadvertently caused some chaos is regrettable, but it's not something you can blame them for. At all. After you started the Deep Roads expedition, things proceeded without any plausible way to prevent them.

 

I recall seeing the final scene of DA2 for the first time. My mage Hawke had just defeated Meredith, and the party was surrounded by templars - who appraoched carefully, then hesitated and slowly backed off. Yup, bad luck or not, Hawke is badass. I disliked the epilogue because it was a little *too* vague (I'm saying that as someone who thinks vagueness in epilogues is good), but I felt Hawke would be quite relieved to leave this cesspit of a city behind.

 

Of course a part of the world believes the worst of Hawke, and our Inquisitors may plausibly be among those who do, but I'll be glad to meet my Hawkes again. There will be common cause. Maybe not in every Inq/Hawke combination, but more often than not.  

 

Edit:

And I'd actually find it hilarious if Hawke stumbled into some explosive situation again, triggering chaos by their mere presence. Remember, it's not something you can blame them for, it's dumb bad luck. Getting a conclusively good outcome this time would be nice though.

[Schmonozov]

So why should we not have the option wether to accept hawke's help or not?

[aTigerslunch]

Options are always good, don't want help then say no, want help then say yes.

[PhroXenGold]

So why should we not have the option wether to accept hawke's help or not?

 

You should have the option to refuse their help, but there should be consequences...

[KaiserShep]

People hate Hawke because they've gotten so used to rpg protagonists being Mary Sue self-insert power fantasies that any deviation from that model leaves them scared, confused, and angry.

 

This is sort of my thought on the matter. Whenever this subject comes up, more often than not I see one of the main complaints that Hawke fails to influence other people, but I guess the problem with that is that there's a little too much reality in that sort of thing. People generally don't care what others think or say, and most are not easily swayed just because you have a little influence. The Warden's journey was littered with very cooperative people. Most were easy to convince of something all the time, and there were perfect outcomes for just about everything, with the exception of the Harrowmont twist. I like that I can murder someone in a village under siege and it's business as usual.

[DarkKnightHolmes]

If DA2 has taught me two things it's that:

 

1) 80% of people can't tell Hawke is a mage. Even Templars

2) Even if you say no, Hawke somehow still gets involved in other peoples affair.

[LobselVith8]

If positive, Hawke goes full retard, becomes an anti-hero and ruins the inquisitors plans at Merill/Anders levels!

 

Technically, Marethari ruined Merrill's plans by releasing a spirit, becoming possessed, and trying to kill Merrill in the name of protecting her; Merrill simply left the clan and went her own way.

[Gtdef]

I don't care if having to work with Hawke is obligatory. My inquisitor doesn't necessarily know who Hawke is. If I have to work with Cass, Varric, Cullen and every other character that was in previous games, then having to work with Hawke as well doesn't change anything for me. In a perfect game I would like to do things differently, but there is no perfect game so no need to go there.

 

I just want the game to not force me into "OHAI, LETS BECOME BEST FRENZ". But this is true for literally every character in the game.

[CrazyMooNew]

Uh....we don't know...

 

I understand that some people have a lot of questions, but I will never understand why these people expect forums members to know the answers to questions about a game that isn't out yet.

 

If I had to guess...yeah....you probably have a choice...maybe.

[LobselVith8]

People hate Hawke because they've gotten so used to rpg protagonists being Mary Sue self-insert power fantasies that any deviation from that model leaves them scared, confused, and angry.

 

I don't think it has to do with Hawke's failures, but rather how those failures are presented. Not warning his mother there was a serial killer actively killing women in Kirkwall, not trying to investigate the hand-written letter that can be found in Quentin's lair, not trying to do anything for three years about Meredith's dictatorship, standing idly by as Tallis walks away with a list of Qunari spies who have infiltrated Thedas and threaten the sovereignty of entire nations - it adds to Hawke's passivity that strongly bothers some people.

 

Trying to do something and failing at it is much, much different than not even bothering to do something at all, after all.

 

I think having more agency over the character's characterization and dialogue, and not having the character stand there like a piece of furniture when people tell him that they plan to start religious wars or when two people come to take away his sister to a place where he knows mages are being made tranquil against Chantry law, might have improved the opinion of Hawke for some people.

[Tevinter Soldier]

Because they didn't like the game (fair enough) and blame it on the character?

Because he had a voice? (Seriously).

Because he was a human, and couldn't be any other race?

Because people felt he had too much established character, and wasn't just a blank canvas for them to paint how they wanted?

Because there were things in the game that he couldn't change?

Because he was just a guy who was trying to cope with all the crappy situations that kept getting thrown at him, instead of a world-altering God who could outright decide everything that happened in His world?

Because the choices in his game were more about deciding how he reacted to events, his attitude, and his relationship with his friends, rather than choosing the specific outcomes of major world events?

Because they already decided they wanted to be Their Warden?

 

Basically pick from the above, mix & match style. Replace "He" with "She" if necessary.

 

My main gripe with Hawke is that the character just seems helpless.

take the witcher games as a good example of how you can have a PC who is badarse and yet things are beyond him. 

you can't stop the northern kingdoms falling apart or the invasion of the nilfgaardian invasion.

 

You can't save foltest or make everything ok, **** happens that beyond your control. Pretty much for all the characters deeds and decisions end up having almost zero effect on the world.

 

But its written well so that doesn't matter. A big part of it being written well even with a character as well defied as the witcher.  is that the character is strong he's the badarse he's who people look to. but hawk? he's just not.

 

play hawke as pro mage and you have a hard time accepting hawke is a logical character.

play hawke as pro templar or better yet anti mage and these issues vanish yes, but we get a whole new set of problems, the game cannot decide if hawkes the go to guy that everyone relies on and looks to for wisdom or an outsider who's help people begrudgingly accept.

 

he never feels like a strong character, he's more like a lacky. hawke go do this, hawke answer my questions, etc, etc.

Yes all games are essential this, but with hawke you never feel like he's a strong character.

 

Gaming is about escapism, if you aren't going to have choices that affect the outcome you need a character is strong enough that it doesn't matter.

from hawke that's lacking, not to mention half your companions clash with your personality either way you role with no way to get rid of them.

[Star fury]

Refusing the aid of one of the greatest fighters the hottest chick on Thedas seems kind of...not wise?

Spoiler

[Sir George Parr]

Yup' we have no idea how the Hawke mission will play out, but as you said it's very possible for Hawke and the Inquisitor to have very different personalities and agendas, so I think bioware is aware of this possibility and you at the very least will have the option of telling Hawke to get lost.

Or it could be like MoTA.Only this time around, you have any outcome you like so long as you help Hawke. 

[Reaverwind]

Refusing the aid of one of the greatest fighters on Thedas seems kind of...not wise?

 

He's just another grunt, and can join up as a grunt. However, I take issue with the idea he has any more relevance than that.

[ames4u]

I have to agree with op, because really, what has Hawke done that didn't immediately turn to crap? They are quite literally the walking physical manifestation of bad luck the likes of which I have never seen.

 

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if Hawke showing up causes the mission to crash and burn instantly.