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Dalish "Clans", Or "How are we suppose to tell these guys apart?"


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#1
Cainhurst Crow

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So the dalish have clans. It's been told to us numerous times that they do. Each clan operates different, with different ideologies, cultures, etc. We're told they all meet up once in a while and end up fighting with one another most of the time. And a few tidbits here and there about how spread out the clans are.

 

But one thing always stood out to me, and perhaps this is simply from not paying attention, but for such a heavy emphasis being placed on "clans", there seesm to be a distinct lack of distinction for the clans. A lot of the dalish clans look the same, which doesn't sound that problematic from a "you only meet 1 clan a game" standpoint, until you think that the clans you run into are all suppose to be different. Nothing visually sets them apart aside from general art design, and that doesn't count cause its applies to all elfs, not just the dalish. The elves getting a redesign is the only reason I can personally tell the DAO clan and the DA2 clan apart from a glance. Speaking of which, this brings up another point.

 

Clan names. Or more specifically, how little the clan names mean in game. I don't think any character actually mentions the dalish by their clan name. Or that the clan names are even brought up in the game. Which is quite strange if one thinks on it, because you figured that if these clans didn't agree with one another they would have different names at the least to tell one another apart.

 

I will grant, the dalish clans are supposed to have names. Supposed to, as in looking up supplemental material on the wiki gives you a list of half a bunch of clan names, and a list of clans of unknown anything. Compounding this problem is how the names seem to be meaningless.The dalish wardens clan name is Sabrae, their last name apparently. So all clan members have the same last name? Seems strange but i'll bite. Only that's not the case, cause merril's clan is Alerion. This is a problem cause initially, the warden and merrill are in the same clan. Now exchanges are apparently common at gatherings, but this makes identifying any sort of traits to clans, and the concept of different clans themselves, meaningless in a way. Compound onto that, the unknown names of clans we do meet in the dragon age games like Zatharan's or Metheranis, and it makes the entire thing seem almost like the creators threw up their hands in trying to make dalish have clans and just stopped.

 

I hear the masked empire had a named dalish clan, the Virnehn, and that the inquisistors clan is Lavellan. The games done, so I'm going to assume clan names are going to be as irrelevant and pointless as they were in the previous games. But would it kill to have a little variety in the dalish clans going into the future? At least a bit of something so when my character tries to do anything with the dalish, they can know by the clan name at least, who they're dealing with?



#2
Arakat

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The relationship between clan names and the individuals' surnames really is confusing. The Dalish Warden's surname is Mahariel even though they're from clan Sabrae; but the Inquisitor's surname is Lavellan, which is also the name of their clan. Is the Inquisitor somehow related to the "founder" of their respective clan, and the Warden is not, or what? (Or has the lore just changed in between games? :D)

 

Granted, my knowledge of the Dalish lore is pretty weak.


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#3
EmperorKarino

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as for simply telling them apart, in origins we got to see two different clans, the dalish warden's clan, and the clan you can recruit in the brescilian forest, so i imagine what major or little differences between those two clans would be how you can tell them apart. i imagine they'll have some flag or something outside their camps. dalish equipment seems to mostly be the same. so you simply have to ask and find out, or hope the game will tell you if they are different clans or not. could ask the same thing about dwarves and their houses., kossith if they are qunari or tal vashoth or vashoth, etc etc.



#4
Akkos

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The relationship between clan names and the individuals' surnames really is confusing. The Dalish Warden's surname is Mahariel even though they're from clan Sabrae; but the Inquisitor's surname is Lavellan, which is also the name of their clan. Is the Inquisitor somehow related to the "founder" of their respective clan, and the Warden is not, or what? (Or has the lore just changed in between games? :D)

 

Actually the Dalish warden was rescued into the Sabrae Clan. The dalish warden mother was pregnant when she was rescued into that clan. His father was a keeper from another clan. He got murdered. While the warden's mother wandered off "into the moon". Check DAO again. and talk to Ashalle.



#5
Arakat

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Actually the Dalish warden was rescued into the Sabrae Clan. The dalish warden mother was pregnant when she was rescued into that clan. His father was a keeper from another clan. He got murdered. While the warden's mother wandered off "into the moon". Check DAO again. and talk to Ashalle.

 

Is the Wiki mistaken, then, since it says the father was the Keeper of the Sabrae clan? Or am I just missing something?

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Mahariel



#6
Akkos

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Is the Wiki mistaken, then, since it says the father was the Keeper of the Sabrae clan? Or am I just missing something?

http://dragonage.wik...m/wiki/Mahariel

Oh well. I don't know. I didn't check wiki. So maybe it's that... I thought Ashalle said something different.

 

Edited - Might be true he was the keeper of that same clan. I don't know. But Maretharihas lived for a long time.

 

Because that Zatheriel or something is like 100+ years old.



#7
Arakat

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Oh well. I don't know. I didn't check wiki. So maybe it's that... I thought Ashalle said something different.

 

Edited - Might be true he was the keeper of that same clan. I don't know. But Maretharihas lived for a long time.

 

Because that Zatheriel or something is like 100+ years old.

 

Yeah, there is a gameplay video that confirms the Wiki is correct. However, Ashalle doesn't name any names, so technically, the Warden could have gotten their surname from their mother, who was from a different clan.

 

I'm pretty sure Zathrian is a special case, having tied his life into a spirit and all that. The average Dalish don't live much longer than humans or city elves, I think.



#8
Akkos

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Yeah, this video confirms the Wiki is correct: 

Spoiler
However, Ashalle doesn't name any names, so technically, the Warden could have gotten their surname from their mother, who was from a different clan.

 

I'm pretty sure Zathrian is a special case, having tied his life into a spirit and all that. The average Dalish don't live much longer than humans or city elves, I think.

 

The warden's mother is from another clan. Hence the Mahariel surname. Good job investigating.



#9
Ignasious

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It is possible that the dalish may get more variety in inquisition, so one can tell the clans appart more easily (if we have any major dealings with more than one clan). Either that, or it might be "too complicated" for us humans to see the difference between the clans.

Then again, they may not have much of a cultural differences, but more of an ideological one. We have seen three different clans knowledge and reactions to the eluvians. The appearance may be the same, but they have different last names and ways to think.

#10
Patchwork

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Or being named after the clan is like being called Snow, Stone, Rivers etc in Game of Thrones. 

 

Your elf quizzy is the Jon Snow of the franchise. 



#11
KonguZya

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It definitely would be nice to have a more concrete idea of Dalish naming conventions. A while ago, I read that the elven Inquisitor's last name is Lavellan, so when I started to write a prologue story for my elf Rogue, I had one of his fellow clan members call him "Lavellan." A while later, wandering through the wiki, I saw that Lavellan was also his clan name! So I'm guessing that the Inquisitor's last names will not be mentioned that much anyway, which is kind of sad because I hoped people would call you by it, like "Shepard," but with variety for each race.



#12
Lenimph

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The relationship between clan names and the individuals' surnames really is confusing. The Dalish Warden's surname is Mahariel even though they're from clan Sabrae; but the Inquisitor's surname is Lavellan, which is also the name of their clan. Is the Inquisitor somehow related to the "founder" of their respective clan, and the Warden is not, or what? (Or has the lore just changed in between games? :D)

 

Granted, my knowledge of the Dalish lore is pretty weak.

The warden's mother was from another clan

 

 

edit: aww someone already said it :(



#13
A Clever Name

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So the dalish have clans. It's been told to us numerous times that they do. Each clan operates different, with different ideologies, cultures, etc. We're told they all meet up once in a while and end up fighting with one another most of the time. And a few tidbits here and there about how spread out the clans are.

 

But one thing always stood out to me, and perhaps this is simply from not paying attention, but for such a heavy emphasis being placed on "clans", there seesm to be a distinct lack of distinction for the clans. A lot of the dalish clans look the same, which doesn't sound that problematic from a "you only meet 1 clan a game" standpoint, until you think that the clans you run into are all suppose to be different. Nothing visually sets them apart aside from general art design, and that doesn't count cause its applies to all elfs, not just the dalish. The elves getting a redesign is the only reason I can personally tell the DAO clan and the DA2 clan apart from a glance. Speaking of which, this brings up another point.

 
I think part of the problem was that DA:O featured two clans, DA:A featured one, and DAII featured one.  The Sabrae clan was carried over from DAII and thus didn't need distinct visual designs/visible cultural differences.  Velanna's clan had "distinct" vallaslin that would suggest each clan has its own patterns, as they were unavailable to the Dalish Warden.  The rest I would blame on a lack of time/resources.  It takes a lot of time, money and effort - which the developers don't always have to spare - to make a whole group of NPCs with their own visual style, which is why I think Zathrian's clan shared the Sabrae clan's vallaslin.  Or, if you want an answer that isn't meta, you could say that Zathrian's clan and the Sabrae clan had similar migration patterns within Ferelden and thus had more amicable relations, so perhaps they diverged less drastically from each other in comparison to their peers?  I still think the resources explanation makes the most sense.  Personally I've equated the clans and their supposed differences as something akin to the difference between bands within tribes - there's an overarching culture, on which each clan has its own perspective.  Thus the differences between them are liable to be minute.
 

Clan names. Or more specifically, how little the clan names mean in game. I don't think any character actually mentions the dalish by their clan name. Or that the clan names are even brought up in the game. Which is quite strange if one thinks on it, because you figured that if these clans didn't agree with one another they would have different names at the least to tell one another apart.

 

I will grant, the dalish clans are supposed to have names. Supposed to, as in looking up supplemental material on the wiki gives you a list of half a bunch of clan names, and a list of clans of unknown anything. Compounding this problem is how the names seem to be meaningless.The dalish wardens clan name is Sabrae, their last name apparently. So all clan members have the same last name? Seems strange but i'll bite. Only that's not the case, cause merril's clan is Alerion. This is a problem cause initially, the warden and merrill are in the same clan. Now exchanges are apparently common at gatherings, but this makes identifying any sort of traits to clans, and the concept of different clans themselves, meaningless in a way. Compound onto that, the unknown names of clans we do meet in the dragon age games like Zatharan's or Metheranis, and it makes the entire thing seem almost like the creators threw up their hands in trying to make dalish have clans and just stopped.

 

There are a few clans mentioned by name, but as I can recall it's only brought up by other Dalish NPCs - Ilen recounting his father battling with the Clayne clan comes to mind.  But otherwise I don't think it's been deemed important enough to give every clan its own name.  I don't believe Velanna's clan was ever mentioned by name in the same way that Zathrian's clan didn't get one.  As for surnames, I've been under the impression (which means I'm probably wrong, haha) that the Dalish families keep surnames from their bloodlines rather than determining from which clan they descend from, as you mention the fact that children are often traded between clans at Arlathvhens.  Bloodline likely matters more than clan in this case - I believe it's mentioned somewhere that clans are typically made up of a few blood relatives, which would necessitate exchanges to prevent incest.  Maybe they would introduce themselves as "______ Mahariel, of clan Sabrae," for example.  I'm still not sure why Merrill isn't given a surname, but eh, I guess it doesn't matter in the same way a handful of our companions have never been given surnames.  They only seem to matter if you're a player character or a non-elven NPC...although I think there are a few dwarven NPCs that don't have surnames, either.

 

I hear the masked empire had a named dalish clan, the Virnehn, and that the inquisistors clan is Lavellan. The games done, so I'm going to assume clan names are going to be as irrelevant and pointless as they were in the previous games. But would it kill to have a little variety in the dalish clans going into the future? At least a bit of something so when my character tries to do anything with the dalish, they can know by the clan name at least, who they're dealing with?

 

The Masked Empire did have the Virnehn clan, headed by Keeper Thelhen.  This "Lavellan of clan Lavellan" business leads me to believe that clans may take their names from prominent members of the clans.  Maybe our elven Inquisitor's great-great-great-great-great grandfather/grandmother was the founder of the clan after the fall of the Dales?   :P

 

At any rate, yeah, I'd like to see some more variety as well.  As much as we're told the Dalish clans are supposed to be different in numerous aspects, we don't really get to see that in-game.  :/


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#14
boissiere

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When I will play a Dalish inquisitor, I will make everything possible to bring back a strong elf kingdom!



#15
Cainhurst Crow

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as for simply telling them apart, in origins we got to see two different clans, the dalish warden's clan, and the clan you can recruit in the brescilian forest, so i imagine what major or little differences between those two clans would be how you can tell them apart. i imagine they'll have some flag or something outside their camps. dalish equipment seems to mostly be the same. so you simply have to ask and find out, or hope the game will tell you if they are different clans or not. could ask the same thing about dwarves and their houses., kossith if they are qunari or tal vashoth or vashoth, etc etc.


Dwarves don't really have this problem though, cause their houses have names. Audecan and Harrowmont, for example. Right there, you form an easy to remember identifier for said clan.

With the dalish its more like "Hey....you." cause in the games decided that being able to tell the dalish apart from one another was a low priority.