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Health regeneration and party composition


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#26
b10d1v

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My concern is finding "quiet"  places to rest and the cost of potions".  Traveling can be problemattic with an injured team mate and mmos don't deal with it well.  In MMO's "leave no one behind" never seems to hold up , its more like drop them and move on.  In single player the creation spell line and the specialty should be preserved as spamming healing spells is not an issue.

 

However, if it becomes an issue Bioware or modders will change it.  I've modded just about every game I have, DAI is not likely to change that.  ME3explorer even has an xbox conversion tool, so pc mods can be transported to xbox.  In DA2 I'm a mage that saved his sister Bethany for instance - got tired of the complaining brother -whatshisname.



#27
Bigdoser

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I believe this will cause players to think more carefully in who they're going to bring with them. Talking with people who have played nightmare difficulty on both DA:O and DA2, I found a lot of them would run with all casters most of the time leaving warriors and duel wielding rogues alone. I found myself doing this alot also, it was simpler in  a way. I like what BW is trying to do because it may cause me and others to actually give warriors and duel wielding rogues more time in the party. But I don't know, that's just my two cents ^_^

Yeah after playing nightmare in both games your party is pretty much made up of casters to speak and the odd rogue/warrior depending if its dao or da2. As someone who stole my name said certain party members were mandatory.



#28
VilhoDog13

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The devs have actually stated (I believe it was in a CC video/customization video recently) that if you desired to only loot - you can still loot. You'll get some of the best items in the game by loot - but that'd be from late game content/enemies (like dragons). To customize that armor further, you'd have the option to outfit it with dragons scales (or some kind of dragon item) and that'd make the item better. But other than that, the items you get from looting are still on par with customizing.

 

As for the health regen, I find it incredibly interesting you thought DA:O and DA2 allowed you more freedom in bringing along whoever you wanted. I found the opposite to be true - especially my first couple of runthroughs of the game. Anders was the healer. Aveline was the tank. I felt like I had to bring them along.

 

What I, personally, like about DA:I is the lack of forcing you to bring someone. I could potentially have a party full of rogues and just have damage mitigation potions/items. My DPS would be off the charts, but my team would be squishier. Or I could bring a team of mages and CC everyone to hell. Or I could bring a team of warriors and take any damage thrown my way. Then there are balances within that system - bring two mages and a tank. Bring a rogue/mage/offensive warrior, or bring a mage and two rogues.

 

I don't understand why you might feel that DA:I composition restricts who you bring with you. Without the game being balanced around a healer - and rather balanced around potions, this allows some freedom seeing as everyone has access to potions. There's a fast travel option, so you can easily get back to a camp should you be exploring. If you're in a cave or dungeon, that just adds to the challenge of the game on harder difficulties. 



#29
Hiemoth

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The devs have actually stated (I believe it was in a CC video/customization video recently) that if you desired to only loot - you can still loot. You'll get some of the best items in the game by loot - but that'd be from late game content/enemies (like dragons). To customize that armor further, you'd have the option to outfit it with dragons scales (or some kind of dragon item) and that'd make the item better. But other than that, the items you get from looting are still on par with customizing.

 

As for the health regen, I find it incredibly interesting you thought DA:O and DA2 allowed you more freedom in bringing along whoever you wanted. I found the opposite to be true - especially my first couple of runthroughs of the game. Anders was the healer. Aveline was the tank. I felt like I had to bring them along.

 

What I, personally, like about DA:I is the lack of forcing you to bring someone. I could potentially have a party full of rogues and just have damage mitigation potions/items. My DPS would be off the charts, but my team would be squishier. Or I could bring a team of mages and CC everyone to hell. Or I could bring a team of warriors and take any damage thrown my way. Then there are balances within that system - bring two mages and a tank. Bring a rogue/mage/offensive warrior, or bring a mage and two rogues.

 

I don't understand why you might feel that DA:I composition restricts who you bring with you. Without the game being balanced around a healer - and rather balanced around potions, this allows some freedom seeing as everyone has access to potions. There's a fast travel option, so you can easily get back to a camp should you be exploring. If you're in a cave or dungeon, that just adds to the challenge of the game on harder difficulties. 

 

I actually saw them commenting on the loot during the QA for the crafting system and it did lay to rest several of my concerns on the matter. Again, just because they had been preaching on the crafting so much, it was a minor concern for me.

 

As for the health-regen issue, I actually didn't write that I found DAO giving me freedom of how to bring along, as I felt it actually really required the tank and the healer for majority of the large battles. I wrote that I didn't feel the need to bring them along in DA2 outside of few of the biggest optional battles. I guess I could write I am as surprised that you felt the need to drag Aveline and Anders along everywhere to get through. I personally always felt that that need is more based on the traditional approach to party tactics present in DAO than what DA2 actually requires for the battles as long as you follow what is happening around the battle field.

 

As for your vision for DAI, it might be true, it might be not. Unless you are one of the developmental team, I guess we both know equally much about the damage mitigation system in DAI and based on that, for instance I'm not completely certain why you feel you would survive with that whole group of rogues. Yeah, there are potions, but they are in very limited amount and your group does not actually heal between battles. Based on that, to bring them along the longer plot missions would seem just kind of asking for punishment and, by the way, would actually be a pretty valid approach in DA2. The only three damage mitigation systems we have been told so far, at least from what I have seen, is the warriors taunt system, which is a part of the role of a tank, and the barrier cast by mages. Which raises the question if you need to drag along a mage to cast barrier on your party in order to not take too much damage to effectively continue on on the mission, how exactly is that different from needing to carry around a mage to heal you during the battles.

 

Again, I realize they are altering the game engine to suit the non-regeneration. What that will end up being is difficult to say, I may love the end result or I may find it a drag. I have seen a lot of theories thrown around how the new system will work, with a lot of jumping in to conclusions about awesome it will be or how it will make exploring miserable backtracking. The truth, though, is that none of us really know before playing the game. The point of my thread wasn't to complain, but rather voice a concern I'm having at the moment, especially since we are going to have the largest party so far in the games and I would find it kind of sad if I couldn't use them as much as I would like because I need Cassandra to be the tank or one of the mages cast the barrier.



#30
VilhoDog13

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Diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks.

I'm excited for the game - it'll be different than previous titles (because none of them got it 100% right) and that's good enough for me.

#31
WazzuMan

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I just want to point out that in the E3 demo they showed off fast-travelling, specifically to one of the Inquisition's camps where you can stock up and rest. For those worried about back-tracking and such.



#32
iniside

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Bring mage with healing.

Mana regenrate normally.

 

You will probabaly be brining mage anyway.



#33
ShinsFortress

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I don't understand why you might feel that DA:I composition restricts who you bring with you. Without the game being balanced around a healer - and rather balanced around potions, this allows some freedom seeing as everyone has access to potions. There's a fast travel option, so you can easily get back to a camp should you be exploring. If you're in a cave or dungeon, that just adds to the challenge of the game on harder difficulties. 

 

It restricts me because it I like having Healers, and it looks like there's next to no such thing in DA:I.  I played DA:O many times and not all my parties had a dedicated Healer Mage.  I never played it on anything above "difficult", but found almost any party combo playable.  The only class that felt almost mandatory was Rogue, for LP.  DA2 doesn't figure into all this at all for me.  I played it through once, never again.  Yes, I had Anders but didn't take Aveline.  Irrelevant.



#34
AlanC9

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LP?

#35
Jimbo_Gee79

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I'm quite excited for the no health regen. I'm glad that bioware is finally stepping out of this lazy gamer culture by handing the player everything they want. Lots of games chose not to impliment health regen and they turned out to be a great success. Max Payne for one. You needed to use painkillers to restore health and if I remember correctly there was a limit on that too.

 

I seriously hope they continue to use this method in the future. There is no need to magically restore someones health. There is no need to allow someone to run straight up the side of a building or have unlimited flying powers. Its lazy game design because fans complain they dont wanna press a button 50 times over.

 

There are plenty of games that allow for that style of play. Being made to stop and think can't be a bad thing surely?



#36
Araceil

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I'm kinda worried that no health regen is going to make game too easy, especially if you are using a party that's halfway decent. Just look at Mass effect 3, it has the same principle. Each individual fight is not meant to be hard, they are suppose to slowly wear you down. However to avoid letting the player letting the player get into a unwinnable situation they had to make the enemies incredibly easy to defeat. That combined with how hilariously bad the ability balance was, well it just made the game a joke even on Insanity. That's what I fear they are going to do in DA:I as well.    



#37
Doominike

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In DAO you didn't even need a party on any difficulty because you could have sweet sweet horribly broken builds. I like to be as powerful as possible in gameplay so kinda bummed about this but eh, they'll balance around it, plus since they say tactical mode is optional that means it's also made so that you don't actually need to strategize that much

 

The other thing that irks me (though I dunno if they carried that from DA2 for sure), is a timer on potions. Not because it's less easy that way, but because it makes no sense. If I have 10 potions on me I should be able to drink all 10 as fast as I want, what's this mystical thing stopping you from using your items between arbitrary intervals ?



#38
Shahadem

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So long as bosses don't have ridiculously OP and unrealistic health and damage numbers, we won't need spam healing. Well dragons can have oodles of health, but humanoid bosses must not.



#39
SpiritMuse

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I dunno. Restricting healing always feels to me like artificial difficulty. And having to avoid getting hit as much as possible will likely make battles annoyingly protracted as you kite and cc and generally dance around instead of actually hitting the enemy. Besides, regenerating health has always been a Dragon Age thing, why change it now?

Between this and the nebulous guesswork friendship system I'm finding myself less and less excited for the game. I'm certainly not getting this without having played a demo first.

#40
VilhoDog13

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In DAO you didn't even need a party on any difficulty because you could have sweet sweet horribly broken builds. I like to be as powerful as possible in gameplay so kinda bummed about this but eh, they'll balance around it, plus since they say tactical mode is optional that means it's also made so that you don't actually need to strategize that much

The other thing that irks me (though I dunno if they carried that from DA2 for sure), is a timer on potions. Not because it's less easy that way, but because it makes no sense. If I have 10 potions on me I should be able to drink all 10 as fast as I want, what's this mystical thing stopping you from using your items between arbitrary intervals ?


There's no cool down (or essentially none). In some of the gameplay videos, the AI had to spam heal with potions because some of the enemies hit them hard.

#41
Doominike

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Oh cool, that's one less mess up (not that there's many, it's down to like 2 now)