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No healing spells whatsoever


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#1
ElementalFury106

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So, I haven't heard much of anything about Healing magic. There IS a basic healing spell, I hope?

 

Mike Laidlaw ‏@Mike_Laidlaw

Nope. Guard and barrier. No healspam.

 

So yeah, if we wanted a tougher game, we sure got it.

 

Health does not regenerate; only way to heal is drink potions (limited stock per companion), use other consumables (they mentioned a grenade that heals the party), or "rest" at camps we've established.

 

Sheesh, I am a gamer who enjoys a challenging experience but this is going to be particularly brutal on Nightmare. 

 

I mean, I think DA:2 had a good premise when it came to healing spells. There was only one, it was basic, and it had a long cooldown so it couldn't be spammed. It was even more scarce considering only a Mage Hawke and Anders had it readily available, considering Merrill doesn't have the Creation tree and Bethany is gone most of the game.

 

I think no regenerating health is a solid challenge, but not even a basic healing spell? Even one with a long cooldown? Seems a bit out of place, considering the franchise we're talking about.


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#2
Allan Schumacher

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Sorry if off topic but Can we still pick up fallen comrades? (Revive them)

 

In case this hasn't been answered yet, yes.


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#3
Lukas Kristjanson

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A lot of people are picturing trying to play DAO/2 with no heals. Of course that wouldn't work, those games weren't balanced for that. But how well were they balanced with heals, really? I'm not a numbers guy, but I like a good fight. And here's what made it make sense for me.

There's a very simple reason why this is a good decision, and it's also why the balance in DAO/2 was all over the map. It's in the question "How many health points does a player have?" Because we need to know this before we can design an encounter and know how balanced it is.

So, how many HP? Well, we'd hope it starts with "somewhere between the minimum for a mage and the max for a warrior, varied based on party makeup." Okay, good place to start. That's a real number. We can build encounters that do somewhere within that range of total damage + effects.

Now add in healing. How many HP does the player have? "Somewhere between the minimum for a mage and the max for a warrior, plus somewhere between the minimum and maximum number of healing spells/potions and between the min/max of their mana/potions."

Okay, how much HP is that exactly? Since potions restore mana, and potions also restored HP, the actual number of potential HP was somewhere between the minimum for a mage and the total amount of gold you had available to spend on potions. And the later in the game it was, the more the top reached astronomical numbers. And so the greatest power the player had in previous games was not any one of their abilities, it was the ability to make the number of HP impossible to estimate.

And to counter effectively infinite HP, "balance" meant we needed to hit the player with far more potential damage than their characters could withstand, and do it all but instantly. In effect, replacing HP damage (unknown limits) with death/resurrection (known limits). Or we had to stop them from chaining potions, meaning more enemies that put them to sleep or confused them, or otherwise made the player not able to take action. Alpha strikes and crowd control, neither of which were tactics that were fun to face again and again, because they "balanced" by removing actions, by removing control.

Now in Inquisition, by reducing healing, by actually defining HP to a range that can have real numbers in it, we can better balance encounters. And no, players can't rely on chaining potions. So what do they get instead?

Abilities/gear/choices that actually have an effect on the battle that is greater than infinite health on your belt. And because your greatest ability isn't chugging potions, we need less effects that shut you down. You spend more time in control of your characters making more varied decisions to have a greater effect on the flow of the battle. You have regen from spells and potions and gear. You have effects you can craft that grant health on enemy deaths. You have damage mitigation through abilities and buffs and crafting. Limiting health and balancing enemies accordingly makes more tactical choices viable while keeping the challenge.

Does this make it more difficult? On Nightmare, Well, you asked for a challenge, and you'll have one that you can overcome in many more viable ways than previously possible.

But what about Easy? Well, last weekend, on Easy/Casual, starting the game with a mage and me not saying a word, my seven year old played for two hours that included many battles, including rifts and beating the crap out of a low level Pride demon. No party wipes. I covered his ears once.

I think you'll be fine.


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#4
Allan Schumacher

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Also I only got 83 GB remaining in my HDD, so I'm starting to feel worried about the total size of Dragon Age Inquisition and its future DLCs and possible expansion. I also want to purchase other games and I think I'll be forced to remove some games from my HDD until I update -- though I don't see the point since I want to purchase a PS4 as well. *starts shaking* Ugh...

 

If there's a couple of other things you're looking for and you can't clear your HDD *and* you're on the fence for a new console, I'll just say that it *is* okay to wait for all that stuff to sort itself out :)


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#5
Allan Schumacher

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can you imagine doing the Deep Roads or Haven having to backtrack so much?

 

Nope.


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#6
Allan Schumacher

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replace infinite health with infinite temp health... I am in awe of the massive innovation. 

 

If it's the same thing then does that make the concerns invalid?


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#7
David Gaider

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Disagree - waiting for people to actually just play the game is the best thing they could do at this point. 

 

And that is very likely what we will do.

 

I'm not a combat designer, so I'm not one to explain anything related to it...but I would say it's a mistake to imagine the old combat system and then take out healing from it and figure that's how it must work. With the new engine, combat has been redesigned from the ground up, and it was constructed with the idea that there should be less reliance on healing as a mechanic.


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#8
David Gaider

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And  dismissing angry, passionate fans is what got Bioware in a mess to begin with.  This is their fanbase, like it or not.  So being a dismissive jerk when people have questions is not helping anyone, dude.

 

I'm trying to look at what I said and understand how that translates into "dismissive jerk". Explain, please?


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#9
Allan Schumacher

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But hacking enemies to pieces is fine for a seven-year old? Okay. I'd think that is major reason the game is not suitable for kids.

 

 

LOL, yes, I am aware of the US' love/hate relationship with breasts. :P  I don't think there is a solid age recommendation for violent content here (Netherlands). I assume it depends on how extreme it is. Mild stuff like Power Rangers would be 6+, but I can't imagine they would judge DA's violence as acceptable for children of that age.

 

Edit: just checked. We use the European PEGI system, and that system judges DA to be 18+ because of the violence in it. This recommendation is also made for the DLCs such as Mark of the Assassin, The Exiled Prince and Legacy.

Out of curiosity also checked the rating for the Witcher games. 18+ for both because of violence and language (swearing). Not for sexy bits.

 

Depends on the parents most likely?  The rating system is a guideline to help inform parents and if someone is okay with the content and their kids consuming it, I don't think there's any real issue with that.


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#10
Allan Schumacher

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I imagine they do, they are out there in the field with the thousands of normal everyday troops the Inquisition requires to establish and maintain order. As the Inquisitor, you get 3 of the most powerful available. Its just that those mages (including ourself possibly) have little affinity for the Creation school. 

I'd rather have a powerhouse who can't heal than middling mage who can.

 

Still no lore conflict here my old chum :)

 

The concept of healing is indeed not absent from the game's narrative.


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#11
Allan Schumacher

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Stuff like this usually feels like fake difficulty to me. I don't want to have to constantly backtrack to refill my potions. Nor do I want to play on easy, because that is too dang easy!

 

What is the difference between "fake" and "real" difficulty though?


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#12
Allan Schumacher

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Thanks for those.  I can understand that. I'm not sure I agree that our game is "fake difficulty" given that you can usually see what challenges lie before you and you have a reasonable amount of information as to whether or not you are equipped for those challenges.


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